preventing vandalism/breaking and entering

[Jolynna Mccune]

Hi there.  I'm new to this site and new to real estate investing, and hoping some of you seasoned pros might have some advice for me.  I am a real estate agent in the Memphis market, working on rehabbing my first investment property.  I bought it at foreclosure and it was in very bad shape - a complete gut job.  I'm over half finished with the project, but now am having security issues.  I've been lucky so far, but now I'm having a problem.  A few nights ago someone broke into the house through the back door by breaking glass and coming on in.  We replaced the door and also put up a wrought iron security door on both the front and the back doors.  But last night someone broke a window - one of my brand new windows too!  I just had them installed last week.  Since they know they house is vacant now, I am expecting this to continue unless I can find a way to stop it.  Any advice would be MUCH appreciated!

[Curt Davis]

stay in the home overnight with a shotgun and wait for them to enter!!!  Rent an aggressive pit up and chain it up in the back yard.   Your dealing with scum who have nothing better to so, it's almost impossible to stop it. 

[Rocky V.]

I like to install wireless cameras.  Typically used for hunting.  Go to

http://www.bushnell.com/all-products/trail-cameras/trophy-cam/trophy-cam-hd-wireless

[David Chwaszczewski]

@Jolynna Mccune I had an issue in my market at one of my homes. I had a SFH in an area that was on an upswing, however on my street it was not and we had the back door kicked open and they stole the stove, microwave, and they tried for the dishwasher (couldn't figure out that it was bolted in so they left it). When we found out we went to AT&T and had an alarm system installed. They put a sign in the yard and stickers on all the doors and windows. Since it did not have a land line in the home we were able to have it hooked up to a cellular connection. I think we paid $200 for the install and under $50 a month. Sounds expensive at first, but was cheaper then the damage and appliances to be replaced. I am not saying this will STOP a thief, but if its your house and another without an alarm I would think they would walk away from yours.

[Jolynna Mccune]

Thanks guys.  That little camera looks interesting.  A bit pricey but so are new windows!  And Curt, it seems like you know the problem we have in Memphis with thugs.  I'm considering a security system, but I sure don't want to sign a contract since I'm hoping to have this house sold in 3 or 4 months.  Wish I knew someone with a big dog they'd let hang out there at night! 

[Chris K.]

I can't say it's been becasue of my security devices or just because nobody was interested in my houses but I've never had any breakins (Knocks on wood). 

I don't have any security systems but i always stick their signs by the front and back doors of my houses, and put their stickers in the windows.  I also have 2 lights in the house on timers that cut on in the evenings and rotate throughout the night. Always motion sensors lights on the front and back. I buy those cheap $2 door/window alarms that you can stick up and goes off anytime the door is opened. 

[J Scott]

A few suggestions:

- Alarm system (Lasershield is something I've used in the past)

- Wireless camera

- Fake alarm system (motion sensored flood light at each side, fake camera mounted next to each flood light and signs saying "Property equipped with security cameras")

[Dean Letfus]

Sorry to say in Memphis forget trying to prevent it. If you are in an area that has these issues you cannot stop them. If it's in a better area then get a security company to guard it while you get it finished and then get it rented as fast as possible.

We've had houses in really good zips trashed in the 3 days between completing a  rehab and tenants moving in.

If you board it up with really heavy duty screws and boards you MAY keep the lazier ones out.

[Markus March]

@Jolynna I have a rental property an I am currently having the same problem but my house as an alarm on it but robbers still broken into my property so I have decided to install burglary bars on all the windows. the thing you have to do is think about the tenant who is going to be renting your property they going to want feel safe when they come home cause you don't to be getting a call in he middle of the night or early in the morning about some one has broken into your tenant home. if you lose a tenant you lose money

[Matthew B.]

@Jolynna Mccune 

Cover the windows so that no one can see inside and see that the house is empty. Get some lights and set them on timers to go on and off throughout the night. The type of timers that people use for Christmas lights work great. Get an old boombox and set it on a timer as well, day and night. Be sure to turn up the volume so it can be heard outside the house. Find an old tube TV with an antenna and let it run. If you have blinds covering the windows, the flickering of the TV will make people think there is someone inside. Security system signs work as well, whether or not the system is actually installed.

Also, make friends with the neighbors and ask them to keep an eye out for your house. I trimmed a neighbor's trees for her and told her I just wanted her to watch my house when I wasn't around. She repaid me by calling the police on my electrician when she wasn't able to reach me on the phone! Better safe than sorry I guess.

[Shawn Thom]

Check out simplesafe alarm systems.  I don't have one but they seem pretty good for this type situation.  They are all wireless connected to the controller and use cell phone signal to uplink to monitoring.  Very simple install. All the devices are portable so when you are done with this house, you can move it to the next project- no contracts.

[George Wendt]

I would check out simplisafe security systems.  They are portable and have no contract so you can move them to your next rehab project when you're done with this one and cancel the plan when having a security system isn't necessary. 

Hope that helps. 

[Jamie Robbins]

I am a Memphis police officer ( and hopefully soon to be investor) as someone that deals with this a lot on the aftermath side, get motion sensor lights.....every where. The camera just let's you watch a replay of the crime and sorry to say not a lot of help to law enforcement. No one is going to kick a door in if its bright out.  Hope this helps 

[Jolynna Mccune]

Thanks to all of you and your helpful suggestions. I googled Simplisafe and really like what I read about that product. I love that it's portable and there's no contract. I think I'm going to give that a try. I am also going to put up the motion detector lights in the front and back and put up some lamps inside on timers, as suggested.  Maybe a combination of these things will help. Thanks again everyone!

[Mark S.]

I like the alarm system and motion lights idea, but not so much the dog. Maybe you were joking, but putting someone else's animal in harm's way over a property seems like that person shouldn't own animals. Yes, I like animals and no, I'm not some crazy animal person, but the comment just rubbed me the wrong way. Getting an aggressive pit or putting someone else's dog in a vacant house to wait for thugs who are likely armed and could stab/shoot/hurt/kill the dog without anyone there to help the animal just seems a little *** backwards to me.

[Shawn Thom]

@Jolynna Mccune if you get one, please let us know how you like it.  I've thought about getting one for a while.  

[Rick C.]

I'm always concerned about security on rehabs too  - each one I bought has already been broken into before I bought it (seems to happen in every neighbourhood - even the nice ones).  I make first order of business securing doors and windows and covering so no one can see inside (I avoid security bars and doors if not already there because don't want to give impression of war-zone).  Next item is getting electricity on, quickly followed by a monitored security system (calls out on cell signals so no phone line needed) and I put signs and stickers everywhere.  I also put a radio on inside the house so people hear noise/voices and a couple motion lights.  Been lucky so far.....

[Rick C.]

oops...i meant timer lights inside the house.  i also leave outside lights on..,..dont even notice it on the electric bill

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Jolynna Mccune 

  I am going to make a few assumptions this property is not in the best area of Memphis.

And you have gotten advice from 2 TK operators in Memphis  who deal with this everyday. One thought they had I think was tongue and cheek and brought out the SPCA.

The reality is if you bought in a C area is this is something that wholesaler turn key guys deal with on a daily bases they just try to get the houses sold to their clients as soon as they can so the risk then goes to who ever buys the house.. The thievery never stops it just becomes someone else issue...

Having dealt in 11 plus markets in the space here are some of my favorites from around the country... Remember all these guys deal with the same problems from Atlanta to Chicago. We are blessed here in PDX  we have a very small amount of it.. but that's another story.

1. This from one of the Largest PM's in Memphis.. He always puts his sign in the yard and has a large Jesus fish on it.. His comment was most of these thieves were raised in the church at some level and they will hit the house next door .

2. From my Chicago guys... BOard up all windows and use metal security doors.. while in the rehab stage and especially if there is mechanicals in the house that are new. Once you have a tenant for the house.. They walk in and see all new stuff and know the windows and doors will be replaced last... and right before they move in.. Its a coordination thing.

3. If your not going to secure the home. Do not do anything but cosmetics. all mechanical and water heater and appliances comes in within the shortest time frame possible from the HUD inspection to tenant. In MS we put the tenant in before the final HUD inspection.

4. Don't lock the doors.. In many instances if they can just open them come in and roam around that way they don't kick in the door jams.

5. Get the neighbors involved big time.. Have them park their cars in the drive way.. WEll I mean on the lawn were most tenants seem to park. This gives the impression of someone being there. and then use the security systems others are talking about.

6. Never put the condenser in until tenant moves in.

7. Prey Prey and prey harder as this is just a daily and hourly occurrence in this these neighborhoods.. So many people think they can buy these cheap houses and have all these good intentions then lose out big time because of the rampant theft issues.

8. INsurance make sure you have proper insurance... Make sure your agent knows the house is vacant and under reno.  Many investors that have these rentals when they go vacant more than 2 months the insurance will not cover fire or anything else.. read the small print.

Good luck

[Cliff Mccue]

I have rehabs in some C class neighborhoods.  We hire guard dogs that get dropped off after the guys leave and are picked up before the workers start.  Once there is a functional bathroom, we hire house sitters to live in the property until the tenant moves in.

[Mike G.]

Lots of good suggestions already.

I know that some investors will pay people to sleep in the properties overnight.

Also, if you have a spare car, leave it in the driveway at night.

You MUST have motion sensor lights outside, and alarm signs and stickers.

Portable alarm system.  We use the wireless/cellular one from Fortress Security.

Consider not putting out For Sale or For Rent signs.  These are advertisements that your property is vacant.

[Rick C.]

@Cliff Mccue

hire guard dogs - I like it!  

Anyone ever use this service around pittsburgh?

[Richelle T.]

Wow this is a great thread

[Rob K.]

Some of the things that I do:

1. Always have a radio playing. Talk radio is good, because it sounds like people having a conversation.

2. Install motion lights. 

3. Get the deadbolts that are keyed on both sides. These are not allowed when a tenant is there, but while the house is being worked on, it's ok. If a bad guy comes in through the window, he will have a hard time leaving with a lot of stuff if he can't open the door.

4. (My favorite) Find a neighbor who's 70+. Take him a case of cheap beer and ask him to keep an eye on your house. Old guys love a side project and usually hate criminals. He will also be happy that you're fixing up this eyesore on the block. Listen to his life story for a little while and he will watch your house for sure.

[Jolynna Mccune]

Jay, thank you for the detailed response and great ideas.  I don't plan to put any appliances, heating and air or hot water tank until the last possible minute.  I know they would likely get stolen.   I'm having a guy install the motion sensor lights this week, and will be ordering that portable alarm system as well.  I will definitely update you all on how that works when I get it installed.  In the meantime, my guys hammered up a bunch of boards over the windows in the rear of the home and nailed the gate shut as well.  Hoping that helps until I can get the lights and system installed.  Thanks for all the tips!   

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Jolynna Mccune 

  the advice of talking to neighbors is also a very strong one.. As well make sure you check with insurance and make sure your covered.