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All Forum Posts by: Jay Hinrichs

Jay Hinrichs has started 322 posts and replied 40754 times.

Post: Note buyers for owner finance buyers without socials

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 42,485
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Quote from @Joe S.:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

when I was buying notes I did not even run credit.. but I only paid 10 to 20 cents on the dollar. 


 Well, it sounds like you was tearing it up.  If you know where any more notes are that can be acquired for $.20 on the dollar please let me know and I’ll be interested in those that you do not purchase. :-)


back in the day and not a big deal flow.. and all land contracts on bare land.. to put it in perspective. :)

Post: Note buyers for owner finance buyers without socials

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 42,485
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when I was buying notes I did not even run credit.. but I only paid 10 to 20 cents on the dollar. 

Post: Subject to exit strategy PLS HELP

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 42,485
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Quote from @Marco Bario:

@Kris Kempe - You should consider the risks for you and the seller when wholesaling a subject to deal. In my mind, the liability and possibility of harming the seller outweigh the rewards. 


Marco I just cringe at these posts  entrance fee is code for a a trainee that is in the tribe you know whats his name..  But the risk to the seller on this deal is immense you have a guy tying up a property who has no ability to close it and then sell it to whoever will give him money and that person could be nefarious get into title rip rents could give 2 craps about the sellers credit etc etc.. Seen that play a few times.. this whole sub to being taught to under capitalized or starter investors who don't know what they don't know and learn this on line is just so very dangerous. There is a time and a place for sub to  no doubt but wholesalers to me are not the time or place.

Post: Cheapest way to make a cash offer???

Jay Hinrichs
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Quote from @Patricia Steiner:

Price cheaper with cash sale?  That ship has sailed and it was never at the discount you're suggesting.  My investors acquire with cash as a routine investment strategy to secure properties quickly and eliminate competing buyers using financing. It also negates the need for insurance - although that isn't our MO.  You're not in the position to be a cash buyer...as a former wealth manager, it's simply not a good play for you for many of the reasons stated above and more.  

My recommendation:  Punt.  Use financing but streamline contingencies and shorten contingency periods. Also find a lender who can move fast - we have several that can close in 15 days and less.  

Hope this helps.  Value your money more.


Exactly if its a hot deal cash just means you beat out the next guy who needs financing does not mean deep discount .. at least in markets were RE is sought after.

Post: Why BRRRR is not an effective strategy today...

Jay Hinrichs
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Quote from @Alan Asriants:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Alan Asriants:

Margins in the market today are extremely tight. The best deals I find are usually the result of an agent's lack of familiarity with the area or a very poor listing presentation. Even in those cases, it's difficult to create a significant gap between the purchase price, rehab costs, and ARV (After Repair Value).

Investing in today's market is incredibly challenging, and I've found that the BRRRR strategy is one of the least effective approaches right now.

Let's keep in mind that BRRRR gained popularity before 2020. Back then, the market was more stable, interest rates were below 4.5%, and distressed properties sold at significant discounts.

Today, distressed properties often sell at a premium, and cash-out refinance rates are above 8%.

The best BRRRR deal I can find today involves buying a property with cash, investing in the rehab with cash, pulling out 75% of the ARV and breaking even on rent and mortgage. However, even in these cases, you typically leave a small amount of money in the deal and only break even before accounting for vacancy, repairs, and other expenses. For example, you might leave $10,000–$25,000 in the deal, end up with a $3,000 monthly payment, and only collect $3,000 (or slightly less) in rent.

This applies to my local market and primarily to Class B or higher real estate.

You’re better off finding a solid property that needs only light cosmetic work (e.g., paint, flooring, or perhaps a kitchen or bathroom remodel), buying it at a decent discount, and putting down at least 25%. This approach gives you access to better loan terms and makes the investment more feasible.

In my market, the BRRRR strategy only works if you purchase an absolute steal from the seller—and deals like that are virtually nonexistent. Even if you do find such a deal, getting it to cash flow after repairs and a cash-out refinance is extremely difficult, especially for single-family homes. This is because there's a cap on how much someone is willing to pay to rent a home today.

For example, even if you own a solid property worth over $600,000, the maximum rent you can charge in my area is $4,000 per month. Even at that price point, you may struggle to find a tenant, potentially leaving the property vacant for months.

Here’s an example of a deal I’m currently working on:

  • Purchase Price: $215,000
  • Rehab Costs: ~$250,000
  • ARV: ~$615,000
  • Potential Rent: $3,600/month

Using a $615,000 ARV and 75% LTV on the cash out refinance, with taxes and insurance, my monthly payment would be $4,267 using an 8.5% rate. This also leaves me with $3,750 stuck in the deal (not including financing and closing costs, which could easily add another $20,000).

In total, if I had to include closing costs and financing costs, I’d have about $23,000 (if not more) tied up in the deal and lose close to $700/month before accounting for expenses. While I would have built $150,000 in equity, the cash flow simply doesn’t work.

Now, let's compare this to the market conditions when BRRRR was highly promoted (pre-2020).

  • Interest Rate: 4.75%
  • Monthly Payment: $3,057/month
  • Rent: $3,600/month

In this scenario, I’d be making over $500/month with $23,000 left in the deal, resulting in a gross 26% cash-on-cash return—an excellent deal.

As you can see, rates and prices play a critical role in the viability of the BRRRR strategy. Even with a great deal, it's tough to make it work in today's market.

This is the reality we’re facing now.


BRRR is how we did all our deals from 2002 till the crash.. in those days we just called it rate and term refi.. I was the HML who put the CA clients into title for 1k per house.. then countrywide or wells would refi them in about 90 to 120 days generally they could cover their lending costs and be positive cash flow 50 to 150 a month.. I did hundreds of them .. then the crash happened and well things in the BRRR world stalled and then of course the new buy and BP coined the term like it was something new.. but its old old school for sure.

 Yep my dad was doing it in the early 2000's too and was telling me about it way before BP even existed. Too bad I was 12 years old and couldnt take out a loan lol


not sure how to take this..  :)  

Post: Why BRRRR is not an effective strategy today...

Jay Hinrichs
Professional Services
Pro Member
#1 All Forums Contributor
Posted
  • Lender
  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 42,485
  • Votes 62,502
Quote from @Alan Asriants:

Margins in the market today are extremely tight. The best deals I find are usually the result of an agent's lack of familiarity with the area or a very poor listing presentation. Even in those cases, it's difficult to create a significant gap between the purchase price, rehab costs, and ARV (After Repair Value).

Investing in today's market is incredibly challenging, and I've found that the BRRRR strategy is one of the least effective approaches right now.

Let's keep in mind that BRRRR gained popularity before 2020. Back then, the market was more stable, interest rates were below 4.5%, and distressed properties sold at significant discounts.

Today, distressed properties often sell at a premium, and cash-out refinance rates are above 8%.

The best BRRRR deal I can find today involves buying a property with cash, investing in the rehab with cash, pulling out 75% of the ARV and breaking even on rent and mortgage. However, even in these cases, you typically leave a small amount of money in the deal and only break even before accounting for vacancy, repairs, and other expenses. For example, you might leave $10,000–$25,000 in the deal, end up with a $3,000 monthly payment, and only collect $3,000 (or slightly less) in rent.

This applies to my local market and primarily to Class B or higher real estate.

You’re better off finding a solid property that needs only light cosmetic work (e.g., paint, flooring, or perhaps a kitchen or bathroom remodel), buying it at a decent discount, and putting down at least 25%. This approach gives you access to better loan terms and makes the investment more feasible.

In my market, the BRRRR strategy only works if you purchase an absolute steal from the seller—and deals like that are virtually nonexistent. Even if you do find such a deal, getting it to cash flow after repairs and a cash-out refinance is extremely difficult, especially for single-family homes. This is because there's a cap on how much someone is willing to pay to rent a home today.

For example, even if you own a solid property worth over $600,000, the maximum rent you can charge in my area is $4,000 per month. Even at that price point, you may struggle to find a tenant, potentially leaving the property vacant for months.

Here’s an example of a deal I’m currently working on:

  • Purchase Price: $215,000
  • Rehab Costs: ~$250,000
  • ARV: ~$615,000
  • Potential Rent: $3,600/month

Using a $615,000 ARV and 75% LTV on the cash out refinance, with taxes and insurance, my monthly payment would be $4,267 using an 8.5% rate. This also leaves me with $3,750 stuck in the deal (not including financing and closing costs, which could easily add another $20,000).

In total, if I had to include closing costs and financing costs, I’d have about $23,000 (if not more) tied up in the deal and lose close to $700/month before accounting for expenses. While I would have built $150,000 in equity, the cash flow simply doesn’t work.

Now, let's compare this to the market conditions when BRRRR was highly promoted (pre-2020).

  • Interest Rate: 4.75%
  • Monthly Payment: $3,057/month
  • Rent: $3,600/month

In this scenario, I’d be making over $500/month with $23,000 left in the deal, resulting in a gross 26% cash-on-cash return—an excellent deal.

As you can see, rates and prices play a critical role in the viability of the BRRRR strategy. Even with a great deal, it's tough to make it work in today's market.

This is the reality we’re facing now.


BRRR is how we did all our deals from 2002 till the crash.. in those days we just called it rate and term refi.. I was the HML who put the CA clients into title for 1k per house.. then countrywide or wells would refi them in about 90 to 120 days generally they could cover their lending costs and be positive cash flow 50 to 150 a month.. I did hundreds of them .. then the crash happened and well things in the BRRR world stalled and then of course the new buy and BP coined the term like it was something new.. but its old old school for sure.

Post: Cash flow is a myth? Property does not cash flow till its paid off?

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Posts 42,485
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Quote from @Carlos M.:

I think what your asking is, can real estate generate enough cash flow to retire off of. The answer is yes. But the truth is 99% of people aren't willing to do what it takes to get to that point. My wife and I are 16 year into our real estate investing journey. I retired 10 years in and my wife 14 years into the journey. 85 % of my portfolio is 200 year old converted city row homes that are maintenance monsters and we still have enough cash flow to retire from our W-2. When i look back it's pretty easy to see what let us achieve this milestone. 

1) Delayed gratification. We reinvested 100% of the profits for 10 years and never upgraded our lifestyle. 

2)We self manage. Its a lot of work but anyway you slice it a management company is going to cost you 10% of gross rents which could easily be 100% of your net profits. To this day I don't even live off of 10% of my gross rents. If we had a property management company my wife and I would still have our W-2s.  Self managing isn't for everyone. I attend seminars, and real estate meet ups, as well as work with my local housing authority to keep up with the local tenant landlord laws. 

3) We did all of our own maintenance. We did all of our turn overs, mowed all the lawns, shoveled all the snow, did all the painting. The tenants loved seeing us work hard.  I still remember working until 2:00 am on a Saturday night to finish an apartment. 

Our life looks much different today.  My mom does the accounts payable and receivables, I have another family member show the units, we have a full time maintenance guy. We still manage but we can, and at times do it all remotely, all while having a mortgage on ALL of the properties. 


realities of being self employed..  nice work !!

Post: Finding private lenders

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Lake Oswego OR Summerlin, NV
  • Posts 42,485
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Quote from @Dawn Roy:

Great question Austin,

I have found the best way is to network with local investor groups.  There are many here in my local area and your area is likely to have the same type of meetings.

Most of the deals that I fund are by meeting investors in person at these groups and creating strong relationships.  You will find that every PML has a different business model.  

Make 2025 the year to build those relationships.

Cheers!


Belly to Belly is the best way for private money.. I RARELY will do a deal for someone i have not personally met.. so I do a lot of flying :)  

Post: Using Agent Commission towards down payment for my own Investment Property

Jay Hinrichs
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Quote from @Dawn Roy:

My response is not relevant to this transaction as it appears everything is going to work out with your lender.  However, for future purchases as investments or otherwise, as a Realtor, I never take a commission on my purchases.

For one, I don't want to pay taxes on it or split it with my brokerage. As we all know, you are really paying for the commission in the purchase price. I prefer to negotiate the purchase price removing any seller commission. Now with the NAR settlement, all buyer commissions are negotiable in the contract. Whether the seller was open to a buyer commission or not, I wouldn't put an additional cost into any personal purchase.

Congratulations on your new investment property.

Cheers!

No kidding we just get them to discount the price by our commish.. Now I can see some builders having an issue with comps.. but other than that its crazy to take these funds as income and then pay tax and plow it right back in..  Geesh.

Post: should i use hard money to grow quicker

Jay Hinrichs
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  • Posts 42,485
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out of 100 HML maybe 5 do new builds.. and zero will do loans for someone with no experience so that is going to be the key if you have experience or not.. if not they then like to see an experienced GC on your team. Lima One does verticle in many markets you can check with them. Best bet though is a local community business bank..