Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Mark S.

Mark S. has started 157 posts and replied 1272 times.

Post: My experience buying a turnkey cash flowing (kinda) turnkey rental outside Huntsville

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Elan Adler:

It’s 2024, and you hear it all the time now: “You can’t buy turnkey, cash-flowing properties anymore.” With the COVID-era surge in home prices, rapid increases in mortgage rates, and rents not keeping pace, it really has gotten harder to make these deals work. That said, I wanted to share my story about how I found an out-of-state property, got it rented, and set it on autopilot.

Background

I’m in my late 20s, living in a very high cost of living city and working in tech. Out-of-state investing makes the most sense for me—it’s impossible to cash flow anywhere near me, and moving wouldn’t make sense because I wouldn’t be able to earn the same wages or find the same kind of jobs.

Before this purchase, I already owned two properties: a long-term rental outside Houston, Texas, and a short-term rental in the Sierras in California. Since I work pretty hard at my day job and don’t have much renovation experience, I wanted something simple—a rental I could put a tenant in and at least break even. I wasn’t looking to add value or find something off-market because the time and effort just didn’t seem worth it compared to focusing on my career. If you want to think about it as a math problem, it’s all about where you put your time to maximize returns while also factoring in what you enjoy doing.

Picking the Market

I’m the kind of person who gets analysis paralysis. I hear about all these different markets and get excited, but I knew I needed to pick one. Ideally, I’d stick with a single market, but the numbers in Houston didn’t make sense anymore, and I didn’t want to buy another short-term rental. So, I went hunting.

Huntsville, Alabama, caught my attention because it’s a highly educated city with growing industries and a stable, diverse economy, as well as a really high quality of life compared to the surrounding areas. It seemed like a long-term play with less price or industry volatility. There were honestly about five markets I liked, but at some point, you just have to “send it” and commit.

Picking the Agent

This is one part of the process I wish I could redo. I didn’t know anyone in Alabama, so I called a few agents I found online and ended up picking one from BiggerPockets. He seemed like a big-time agent who works with a lot of long-term investors. But after working with him, I realized he was very systematic and mostly cared about closing deals without much care for the client's long term needs.

Here’s an example: I had a $10K escrow with the seller—$5K due upfront and $5K after the inspection. I paid the first $5K but started having second thoughts because of high vacancy rates in the area. When I asked my agent about options to back out, he didn’t really offer any advice. Instead, he just told me, “Tough luck.” He wasn’t interested in brainstorming solutions, like using the inspection as an out. It felt super dismissive, and it became clear he just wanted me to sign the papers.

If I were to do this again, I’d reach out to more agents and have more conversations to find someone who is more empathetic. 

The Property and The Numbers

The property I ended up buying is in Athens, Alabama, about 40 minutes from Huntsville. Ideally, I would’ve bought closer to Huntsville or Madison, but the rent-to-price ratios just didn’t work for cash flow in those areas.

This property is a 2,100-square-foot, 4-bedroom, 2-bath new build in a really good school district, which is what sold me on it. Huntsville is growing, and families are always going to prioritize good schools. Since it’s a new build, I was able to negotiate some great perks, like a 5.875% interest rate, no closing costs, a fridge, blinds, and even a backyard firepit.

Pros:

  • Good school district
  • Low interest rate
  • Minimal CapEx and repairs (because it's a new build)
  • Low insurance
  • High-quality tenants (due to the school district and being a new build)

Cons:

  • Lots of new builds in the area, which could drive down prices and increase vacancies

The Numbers:

  • Price: $290K
  • Interest Rate: 5.875%
  • Down Payment: 25%
  • Monthly Mortgage + Insurance + Taxes + HOA: $1,480 (I got really low insurance since it’s a new build and Alabama’s property taxes are low)
  • Property Management: 10%
  • Rent: $1,800 (this is under market because I wanted to rent it quickly—most units in the area were sitting vacant for 100+ days. Mine rented in less than 15 days.)

All in all, that gives me $140 a month for vacancy, CapEx, and repairs. Now I know what you all are thinking -- that place is not going to cash flow! Well the bet I'm making here is that CapEx and repairs will be very low the first few years (honestly event he first decade), and once all the construction ends I will be able to increase my rent closer to market rent at $2k which will give me a better cushion. This will put me at cash flow neutral and I'll let appreciation and long term rent appreciation do it's work. So far I've owned the place for 4 months and have not had any issues with my tenant yet.

Am I Happy With My Purchase?

I know this is going to be anticlimactic, but to be honest I am unsure how I feel about my purchase and don't know if I would do it again. The process went smoothly, and I’m happy I got a tenant so fast, but the high supply of new builds in the area makes me nervous. There’s a lot of construction, which could hurt both prices and vacancy rates. That said, the construction is slowing, and I believe Huntsville’s population growth will make this a good investment over 10+ years. The area’s affordability and Huntsville’s overall growth leave me optimistic, but time will tell.

For my next investment, I’m thinking about buying a single-family home or duplex in the Midwest—Cincinnati is at the top of my list. I want to diversify since I’ve already bought in the Gulf Coast and California. The Midwest offers good cash flow potential, and Cincinnati stands out for its diverse economy and solid quality of life in an affordable market.

I just wanted to share my experience to show that turnkey deals are still possible. Hopefully, this is a useful example of what’s achievable with out-of-state investing, even with no local connections.


 I hope you contacted BP directly about your experience with what sounds like a 🫏 agent.  

Post: How to get fixed rate loans on investment properties?!

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525

I have 30-year fixed rate loans on all rental properties. A few are conventional 30-year fixed loans. One is a DSCR loan that covers 5 properties (also a 30-year fixed...at 3.75%!).

Post: tenants breaking leases and excessive damage make it hard to be profitable

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Damon Albers:

David B. - 

The address of the 3 bdrm 2 bath, garage is 4655 Royal View Drive, Memphis TN 38128

The address of the 3 bdrm 1 bath, driveway parking is 3082 Parker Rd., Memphis TN 38109


 38128 is good for rentals.  38109 you have to be careful where.  I’m on mobile and in a rush so not looking at your exact houses.  I think you’re with the wrong turnkey company.  You can do MUCH better, believe me. 

Post: Employer does not match 401k - should I invest?

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Deb S.:
Quote from @Mark S.:
Quote from @Deb S.:
Quote from @Toni Hogan:
Quote from @Jeff Nash:

If they do not match the only other consideration if it is available is to do the Roth 401K option.  If that is not doable then I would keep your money in the taxable bucket and allocate accordingly.  

Hi! Can you please clarify "keep your money in the taxable bucket and allocate accordingly"?

I read this to mean; allocate for what will have to be paid in taxes at the end of the year. Is that correct?

I am a state employee contributing 10% of my pre tax dollars to a 457b and I contribute 7.25% to a state retirement plan - no employer match.

After a little research, I'm learning some early real estate investors with a W-2 job do not contribute to a retirement plan if there is not a company match, but instead put their money toward real estate investing. 

What are the best options to prevent from being heavily taxed from the W-2 job without the retirement contribution?

Thanks!

 Hi Toni, 

I'd like to point out that the annual tax savings from contributing to a retirement account in your working years is tiny compared to the tax bill you will have to pay on that 'pre-tax' retirement account. 

Why? Because after contributing for 20 or 30 years, the account value has grown substantially (at least we hope so). When retired and now want to withdraw those funds, you will be paying taxes on whatever amount you withdraw every year AND after age 72 will have to take RMD (required minimum distributions) whether you want to withdraw money or not! Otherwise, the IRS will penalize you.

See attached pic for an example. 

I show people how to use permanent life insurance to supplement retirement with tax-free income. If you'd like to know more, send me message and I can explain. It's a lot to put here.


 Stop the nonsense.  


 What nonsense?


 Your post.  Nonsense.

Post: Employer does not match 401k - should I invest?

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Deb S.:
Quote from @Toni Hogan:
Quote from @Jeff Nash:

If they do not match the only other consideration if it is available is to do the Roth 401K option.  If that is not doable then I would keep your money in the taxable bucket and allocate accordingly.  

Hi! Can you please clarify "keep your money in the taxable bucket and allocate accordingly"?

I read this to mean; allocate for what will have to be paid in taxes at the end of the year. Is that correct?

I am a state employee contributing 10% of my pre tax dollars to a 457b and I contribute 7.25% to a state retirement plan - no employer match.

After a little research, I'm learning some early real estate investors with a W-2 job do not contribute to a retirement plan if there is not a company match, but instead put their money toward real estate investing. 

What are the best options to prevent from being heavily taxed from the W-2 job without the retirement contribution?

Thanks!

 Hi Toni, 

I'd like to point out that the annual tax savings from contributing to a retirement account in your working years is tiny compared to the tax bill you will have to pay on that 'pre-tax' retirement account. 

Why? Because after contributing for 20 or 30 years, the account value has grown substantially (at least we hope so). When retired and now want to withdraw those funds, you will be paying taxes on whatever amount you withdraw every year AND after age 72 will have to take RMD (required minimum distributions) whether you want to withdraw money or not! Otherwise, the IRS will penalize you.

See attached pic for an example. 

I show people how to use permanent life insurance to supplement retirement with tax-free income. If you'd like to know more, send me message and I can explain. It's a lot to put here.


 Stop the nonsense.  

Post: Mid South Home Buyers - Has anyone ever done business with this company recently?

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Alston Ke:

There are some posts many years ago about MSHB I'd like to know if anyone is buying any investment properties from them recently and your overall experience with Mid South Home Buyers.

I’ve been investing with MSHB since 2017 and just bought another property recently.  Feel free to PM.  Happy to chat.  I would definitely recommend. 

Post: FlipSystem by Antoine Martel

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Amy B.:
Quote from @Neil Patel:

Has anyone used flip system before by Antoine Martel before? https://flipsystem.com/

They're essentially promising on helping you flip homes with 10-20k profit on each flip and will connect you to their entire team when it comes to flipping for out of state.

I joined the program, please reach out to me personally if you want to know the truth from my personal experience.
How much you getting from referral fees to those who reach out to you?  lol

Post: Losing money on turnkey property. Should I sell?

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Axel Meierhoefer:

@Jonathan C.

There are a few things that make me wonder when I read your post:

1. What was the goal for you when you bought the property and how did that goal align with what the turnkey provider told you about it?

If I look at my investments in B- and C areas I know that the longer I hold them, the better the numbers typically get. Your case with such a steep loss is pretty extreme in such a short amount of time, but still, I wonder if you bought this property for long-term hold or not?

2. Leveraged properties require patience even if your tenants pay on time and maintenance is limited. If you want bigger returns faster, you would want to buy better quality properties in quickly appreciating markets. So you had a plan, I assume. Was it a good plan?

3. You said you bought from the turnkey provider. They do not take any responsibility for anything and just dump all the costs on you? How did you decide that this was a good provider.? I can't imagine that @Engelo Rumora or any of my providers would do that. It's a matter of the systems they have in place to limit the risk of things like you describe form happening.. Do they have those?

4. I always recommend for my clients (and myself) to run the investment portfolio like a business and suggest to form an LLC (running as S-Corp), even with only 1 property. In your case you have a lot of losses in the time you own the property but these losses transfer through to your personal tax return, so you can recover some of it and not have to count the full nominal amount. Did you consider that?

In summary, if your goals are still similar to what they were when you bought, the location has potential, better vetting of tenants will avoid evictions, etc. it would make sense to keep the property and see if it can live up to the potential you expected when you bought it.

If you think you had false expectations or don't see a probability of recovery, I would also do the renovation and then sell. You can file losses again and the cost of the renovation.


I have never heard anyone recommend an S-corp for rentals.  Did your tax pro suggest this?  Seems incorrect. 

Post: American Homeowner Preservation (AHP) Fund

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Andrew Frishman:

Suddenly crypto investing doesn't feel so volatile anymore!!@


 HODL!

Post: American Homeowner Preservation (AHP) Fund

Mark S.
Pro Member
Posted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Kentucky
  • Posts 1,305
  • Votes 525
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Mark S.

Which offering were you invested in?


 2015A+ and Servicing.  Why?