Moving to a New (Midwest) Market

[Noelle Mastelotto]

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

[Patrick Drury]

@Noelle Mastelotto
Columbus definitely gets all 4 seasons and thankfully no natural disasters which is good. In terms of living in Columbus, it's affordable and the nice thing is you can be pretty much anywhere in 20-30 minutes. 

[Kerlous Tadres]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

I have lived here in Columbus, Ohio all my life and I can say that it has all 4 seasons here. The best thing I would recommend is getting a duplex near a dog park that way you're not sacrificing way too much. Let me know if there is anyway I can help. Would love to make the moving transition easy for you!

[Jay Hinrichs]

Grand Rapids is a pretty robust market currently. 

[Mike Paolucci]

As someone who moved from another state as well, I can relate to wanting all 4 seasons! You'll get everything you're looking for and more in Ohio.

Pretty happy with my decision to move to Columbus but Cincy and Cleveland are also great choices in my opinion. It will all depend on what kind of pace of life you're looking for. Happy to share some of my transplant experiences! 

[Travis Biziorek]

Noelle, Detroit should be high on your list of places to move.

I can speak from personal experience. My wife, (nearly) 1 y/o son, and pup moved from California to Metro Detroit in 2017. 

We proceeded to do a live-in flip and invest heavily in Detroit real estate. We then moved back to California.

Our primary house was purchased for $465,000 and ended up renovating and selling for $765,000. We have 12-doors in Detroit that we still own and self-manage, all of which have gone up in value 2-3x. And they cash flow like crazy.

Detroit prices are appreciating like crazy. In the last 5 years they've doubled (see chart below). 

You could find a pretty decent neighborhood in Detroit to house hack. Nice duplexes in East English Village, Morningside, or University District/Bagley can be had for anywhere between $150k - $250k. Or you could buy a SFH in the suburbs but duplexes in the suburbs will be a fair bit more expensive.

Anyway, I think Detroit is a fantastic place to build wealth now and in the coming years. If you have the flexibility to do it, I'd absolutely go for it!

[Todd Jones]

In Cleveland, we get 4 seasons but at weird times due to lake effect snow. It’s not surprising to see a serious snow blast in September / early October. Then it gets warm again.

[Drew Sygit]

@Noelle Mastelotto not only is Detroit booming, but we've got the data to help with investing decisions!

Look at the suburbs? 
--We've got them ranked!

Want to invest in the City of Detroit?
We've got data on all 183 Neighborhoods:)

[Austin McClain]

Best of luck with the move. I'm house hacking in Columbus, and it's been successful 

[Samuel Diouf]

I love house hacking in Columbus because you can get into the higher priced areas and leverage your money very effectively.

When house-hacking with 5% down, returns on cash invested could be huge when you factor in the appreciation gains. You can double your money in one year if your property appreciates only 5%.

[Remington Lyman]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

Out of these cities (Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron), I prefer spending my time in Columbus. I do enjoy visiting the other 3 locations from time to time, though. Each city has a different vibe, so I would recommend visiting each place before you make a decision.

[Travis Timmons]

I'll throw you a curveball of an idea. We just moved to coastal Maine from Houston (also sick of the heat). Our version of a house hack is a live in flip + leaving for about 6 weeks in the summer and renting our house out on airbnb/vrbo. July 1 to Aug 15 STR revenue will cover the mortgage for the year provided that we spend that time staying with family and/or on a low-ish budget vacation.

I'm not suggesting you move to this forgotten corner of the country, but look at a solid vacation rental market. One that has strict STR permitting with exceptions for owner occupants would be a bonus. It's also fun to live somewhere scenic and pretty. Like actually pretty...not Texas pretty. I'll report back when it's 11 degrees and the sun sets at 3:45 PM in January, though.

[Alfath Ahmed]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

 If you are going to move to ohio and want to house-hack. I recommend doing it in columbus because you can get low-down payment options at 0 to 5% with other grants and the properties here appreciate a lot faster than other markets. 

Columbus has all 4 seasons and it really is not that bad with the winter. 

[Jimmy Lieu]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

Hi Noelle! I started with a house hack when I moved from Portland OR to Columbus OH. Then I purchased rentals myself and grew my portfolio to over seven figures. I have also helped a few clients do the same thing. Columbus OH is very landlord friendly and the deals are at a very cheap price point. Happy to connect and answer any questions you may have.

[John Jacobs]

@Noelle Mastelotto

Also consider Madison, Wisconsin.  Although not classically thought of as Midwestern have you also thought of Tennessee and North Carolina?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @John Jacobs:

@Noelle Mastelotto

Also consider Madison, Wisconsin.  Although not classically thought of as Midwestern have you also thought of Tennessee and North Carolina?

I have some clients that moved from  Portland to Madison they love it..  Lot of nice little lakes between there and Milwaukee that also offer lake frontage at a reasonable price point.

[Lauren Stark]

Madison, WI is a gem! Its a great place to house hack, the rental market is in high demand so you can always find renters. Depending on your area, you get more bang for your buck if the side you're renting out is a furnished mid-term rental. We have a lot of traveling nurses coming for the UW Hospital system and furnished rentals on mo/mo contracts pull a lot more than your traditional LTR 12/mo lease. Let me know if you are interested in scoping out this area at all. 

It's a great place to live. It feels like a city but is on the smaller side and very easy to get around by car or bike. Happy to share more about this area if you'd like!

[Marcus Auerbach]

@Noelle Mastelotto Milwaukee might be worth a look. MKE has 66,000 duplexes, more than any city in the US, including Chicago. Most of these duplexes were purpose built by German immigrants in the 1920s with the idea to rent out upstairs for extra income. Definitly four seasons and if you have never been to Milwaukee check it out on YouTube.

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

Out of these cities (Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron), I prefer spending my time in Columbus. I do enjoy visiting the other 3 locations from time to time, though. Each city has a different vibe, so I would recommend visiting each place before you make a decision.

I'd caution this line of thinking. 

Just because you enjoy spending time somewhere or prefer living in a place over others does NOT mean it's the best place to invest.

There are lots and lots of examples of this. But it should be obvious... live where you like but invest where it makes the most sense.

Sometimes that answer is the same, but often it isn't for a variety of reasons.

[Wale Lawal]

@Noelle Mastelotto

Grand Rapids, MI, Kalamazoo, MI, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, OH, Cleveland/Akron, Pittsburgh, IN, Indiana, Rochester, NY, Toledo, PA, Indianapolis, and Rochester, NY are popular choices for house hacking due to their affordability, strong rental demand, and potential for house hacking. Kalamazoo or Cleveland/Akron are suitable for lower-cost options, especially for those with a live-in flip experience and need to accommodate pets. Other cities like Toledo, Indianapolis, and Rochester are also suitable for house hacking.

Good luck!

[Noelle Mastelotto]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Hi BP community!

My husband, myself and my four pups are selling our house in Austin metro area and looking to move to a new more affordable market. We've done a few live in flips and are hoping to get into our first house hack cus we're sick of moving so often. Duplex with dogs isn't quite ideal but we're willing to do what we need to do to get closer to financial freedom! Also open to SF BRRR but don't have a lot of cash on hand for renovations this time. We're going to do a midterm rental in Toledo Ohio and explore a few cities. Husband works remote and I'm a hairdresser so I'll need to settle in somewhere and build clients. We're moving with some debt and a small nest egg.

Heres our short list. Hoping maybe someone has some insight if these are good options or maybe we’re missing some other cities! We’re sick of the heat and want to live somewhere with 4 seasons!

Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland/Akron. 

 Thanks everyone for your very helpful replies!! We're closing on our Tx house this week and then decided on a midterm rental in Columbus as it seems its the obvious crowd favorite! Still going to check out the rest of our list while we're up there. We're so excited to start our investing journey somewhere more affordable/ accessible!

[Noelle Mastelotto]

Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

Noelle, Detroit should be high on your list of places to move.

I can speak from personal experience. My wife, (nearly) 1 y/o son, and pup moved from California to Metro Detroit in 2017. 

We proceeded to do a live-in flip and invest heavily in Detroit real estate. We then moved back to California.

Our primary house was purchased for $465,000 and ended up renovating and selling for $765,000. We have 12-doors in Detroit that we still own and self-manage, all of which have gone up in value 2-3x. And they cash flow like crazy.

Detroit prices are appreciating like crazy. In the last 5 years they've doubled (see chart below). 

You could find a pretty decent neighborhood in Detroit to house hack. Nice duplexes in East English Village, Morningside, or University District/Bagley can be had for anywhere between $150k - $250k. Or you could buy a SFH in the suburbs but duplexes in the suburbs will be a fair bit more expensive.

Anyway, I think Detroit is a fantastic place to build wealth now and in the coming years. If you have the flexibility to do it, I'd absolutely go for it!

 Hey Travis, I really appreciate the info. We're definitely still considering Detroit. Can I ask you why you left? 

[Noelle Mastelotto]

Quote from @Travis Timmons:

I'll throw you a curveball of an idea. We just moved to coastal Maine from Houston (also sick of the heat). Our version of a house hack is a live in flip + leaving for about 6 weeks in the summer and renting our house out on airbnb/vrbo. July 1 to Aug 15 STR revenue will cover the mortgage for the year provided that we spend that time staying with family and/or on a low-ish budget vacation.

I'm not suggesting you move to this forgotten corner of the country, but look at a solid vacation rental market. One that has strict STR permitting with exceptions for owner occupants would be a bonus. It's also fun to live somewhere scenic and pretty. Like actually pretty...not Texas pretty. I'll report back when it's 11 degrees and the sun sets at 3:45 PM in January, though.

 Thanks Travis! This is actually such a great idea. We spent a year in upstate NY with my husbands family and were considering doing something similar up there since we had places to stay. Not out of the question for us at all. I bet Maine is GORGEOUS!!

[Travis Biziorek]

Quote from @Noelle Mastelotto:

Quote from @Travis Biziorek:

Noelle, Detroit should be high on your list of places to move.

I can speak from personal experience. My wife, (nearly) 1 y/o son, and pup moved from California to Metro Detroit in 2017. 

We proceeded to do a live-in flip and invest heavily in Detroit real estate. We then moved back to California.

Our primary house was purchased for $465,000 and ended up renovating and selling for $765,000. We have 12-doors in Detroit that we still own and self-manage, all of which have gone up in value 2-3x. And they cash flow like crazy.

Detroit prices are appreciating like crazy. In the last 5 years they've doubled (see chart below). 

You could find a pretty decent neighborhood in Detroit to house hack. Nice duplexes in East English Village, Morningside, or University District/Bagley can be had for anywhere between $150k - $250k. Or you could buy a SFH in the suburbs but duplexes in the suburbs will be a fair bit more expensive.

Anyway, I think Detroit is a fantastic place to build wealth now and in the coming years. If you have the flexibility to do it, I'd absolutely go for it!

 Hey Travis, I really appreciate the info. We're definitely still considering Detroit. Can I ask you why you left? 

It's hard to beat California weather. We also have far more family in CA than Michigan, and that's been a great move for us and our young boys.