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Updated about 9 years ago, 09/07/2015
How transparent are you with people at your "day job" about REI?
So, I just finished listening to Podcast 60 with @SergeS and it got me thinking. He was working a full time job, and took his business from 0 to 68 units in four years. In the podcast he referenced very often he would be in meetings, etc and his phone would be blowing up with his "other" job.
What I was wondering is, for people like myself who are just starting out, but keeping our day job, how transparent should I be (or not) with my current company/boss about what I'm doing? I have to imagine it will illicit a number of questions if my phone is blowing up all the time, or what if someone finds my company website (when I actually have one). But clearly a double edged sword about explaining why you are starting to invest/building a business. My inclination is to not mention anything, but didn't know what others experiences have been. Appreciate the thoughts of anyone who has done it.
Mike
I am in the same boat. Sometimres my employer does try to hold it against me and I have been reprimanded. Thus I tell my tenants to text, not call, me during work hours. And I leaned to never speak about my REI while at work. I will go into the stairwell or the restroom to make my personal phone calls. You'd think that, being that I work for a big developer, my employer would be impressed with my after-hours real estate business, what I've achieved and how its grown, but instead I get in trouble. I'm smarter than all my colleagues but its held against me. UGH!
When I pull up to a rental in my Lotus and my GC asks me what exactly I "do," I say "I work for the mob."
What kind of question is that, anyway? "What do you do?" I make money. I invest my time into learning how to make more money. Then I take calculated risks that enable me to continue making more money.
Don't get me wrong... I don't care about "money". I care a lot more about TIME than money, and I don't want to be a schmuck that works 300 years for a BOSS, hoping for a pension and a gold watch, only to be fired a week before my gold watch ceremony and hoping Walmart has a spot for me a couple days a week to make up for the pension I didn't get.
Anyway... how transparent should you be? That depends on your situation. If you have the freedom to take calls, do it. If you have to do it on your lunchbreak in order to keep your current boss happy, then do that.
Just remember you currently have a JOB, which stands for "Just Over Broke".
Good luck. :)
I have been a full time firefighter for ten years, and I have been very open about what I do and filter calls as I am able to when at work. I am fortunate where I have the ability to take the call and walk outside the station. Having the guys know the details of what is happening doesn't help anything, and that is when people begin to talk, or express jealousy, etc. I have found that painting broad strokes and giving the guys just a bite keeps them interested enough where it works in a productive manner for me. Many of the guys on the fire department have trades outside of the job, and I utilize many of these guys as my subcontractors, and some as my personal employees.
My opinion, and this is only my opinion, play the hand tight to the vest, but let everyone know that you have a hand to play.
Wow, love all the thoughts on here. Didn't imagine this topic would go this far, but would love to hear more opinions, even from @Serge S. since Ben made the intro.
My situation is actually odd. I work at a publicly traded mid cap company. I lead the finance group there, working for the CFO. Its pretty demanding, mornings, weekends, and nights off and on. The interesting part though, is most of the exec team are serial entrepreneurs, who are largely on their last hurrah before retirement, so they all know what it is like to start something on the side (or just quite their old job to jump into it). This job pays well, and is a good part of what is funding my REI. At the end of the day, I don't think it would be perceived well, but as it was said, maybe I'll keep it close to the vest and once I have enough income coming in, I can be more open about it.
I'll be following to see some more thoughts. Thanks for all the feedback so far!
I am open about it but yet discreet. I don't brag about things but joke how this allows me to take 2 week vacations in the Caribbean for the last 6 yrs, help pay my kids college, or get me to early retirement. They seem to respect me for it and ask me questions and pick my brain. I give them my contractors numbers who appreciate the extra business. As the old saying goes, "if you want something done, give it to a busy person". I only make calls during breaks and in private. Sometimes I go to closings at the start of the day or the end so as to minimize the impact @ work saying I have an appointment which they assume is a Dr. appointment. I even share it with my patients on occasion & although I made them literally radioactive, they seem to respect me more for my 'side business'.
I would tell everyone I know about it. I have found some of the best deals from people I talk to. I call them my personal pocket listings. I'm under contract on a rehab project from a referral that I got from somebody I met at the store waiting to check out. You just never know. You might even gain a business partner on a deal from someone you work with, and take a early retirement together to pursue the real estate life style by design!
I used to be a very private person about my investing. I didn't even like letting the banker know all of my investments. I would occasionally mention I was painting a rental over the weekend, or things like that. If asked I would say I was part of a real estate investing company. As I listened to the podcasts about opportunity from word of mouth I changed my view. I am lucky as I am the boss, but I am also up for election every 4 years. I decided to come clean and talk it up. I don't know how the public will take it if it becomes an issue in an election. I just smile if someone says slumlord. If they push it, well I push back, sometimes nice, sometimes not. Some folks say things like why, don't you make enough? You are the highest paid person in the courthouse. I say things like I took a 50% cut in salary to take this job, and I do a dam good job. How long do you think I can keep talking to broken 6 or 8 year olds and get them to say in a courtroom to 20 folks the details of how mom's boyfriend raped them before I get burned out and want to retire? My wife calls them therapy houses that I can work frustration off in by tearing out walls. I point out how its a side job I can do mostly on weekends so I can devote most of my time to this office. I am considered part time by my current job title and can still do outside legal work. One particularly irritating cop keep making nasty slum lord comments so I finally told him he shouldn't mind since he was a dirty cop who took bribes and used most of the dope he seized. He became very angry and denied it and threw a little tantrum. I told that doesn't he get that from folks out on the street? He said he did but I had no right saying it. I told him that I worked very hard at providing good clean houses that were safe and pleasant to live in and I didn't deserve to have him call me slumlord, since I was not one. That was the last smart remark I ever heard from him about rentals. The good part now is that everyone knows that I do rentals and I have not run a newspaper add to rent a house in several years. I probably get 3 or 4 calls a month asking if I have a house available for rent. Folks say call Jerry, he has some nice rentals. I have even gotten requests from some folks to look at the houses they have for sale, and have bought one from someone who knew I did rentals. I do expect to pull my fair share of work. I always put more time in than anyone. While I am often 5 minutes late, I also am there until 6 or 7 at night. I take the tough and demanding cases. I often take calls at work, and I can see how a boss might be upset if I worked for them. I make it a point to give it my best when at work. I allow personal calls and errands to be done by workers, but I expect them to get their work done. Some days are slow, some days are hell.
Originally posted by @Michael C.:
So, I just finished listening to Podcast 60 with @SergeS and it got me thinking. He was working a full time job, and took his business from 0 to 68 units in four years. In the podcast he referenced very often he would be in meetings, etc and his phone would be blowing up with his "other" job.
What I was wondering is, for people like myself who are just starting out, but keeping our day job, how transparent should I be (or not) with my current company/boss about what I'm doing? I have to imagine it will illicit a number of questions if my phone is blowing up all the time, or what if someone finds my company website (when I actually have one). But clearly a double edged sword about explaining why you are starting to invest/building a business. My inclination is to not mention anything, but didn't know what others experiences have been. Appreciate the thoughts of anyone who has done it.
Mike
I don't hide what I do in my free time. I talk to everyone about Real Estate Investing, and I unconsciously turn almost any conversation into a discussion of real estate.
I work for the government, so it is a little different than for the guys who work for private businesses. I also am a pretty passive investor, only having to respond to a few emails and/or phone calls per week from my property managers.
i talk to everyone around me about my investing, i even try to get our contractors involved so they will see being a slave to their job today does not mean they have to stay that way their whole life
good luck to all
I used to be very private about it and only would discuss it with one co worker. I would spend the weekend viewing properties, fixing up a property, or showing a property to potential tenants then Monday would come and when asked what I did this weekend I would hide it and just say, "Oh, nothing much." That was until I found out about another co worker who was selling their house to someone for WAY under market value because they had been paying on two mortgage payments for almost a year and could no longer afford it. Had I told more people about what I was doing that someone could have been me! Now I am much more open about it and most people seem to have a genuine interest in what I'm doing. Since I've been more vocal about it I've found out about someone else at my work that has much more experience with rentals than I do and have been able to ask them questions from time to time.
Originally posted by @Michael C.:
So, I just finished listening to Podcast 60 with @SergeS and it got me thinking. He was working a full time job, and took his business from 0 to 68 units in four years. In the podcast he referenced very often he would be in meetings, etc and his phone would be blowing up with his "other" job.
What I was wondering is, for people like myself who are just starting out, but keeping our day job, how transparent should I be (or not) with my current company/boss about what I'm doing? I have to imagine it will illicit a number of questions if my phone is blowing up all the time, or what if someone finds my company website (when I actually have one). But clearly a double edged sword about explaining why you are starting to invest/building a business. My inclination is to not mention anything, but didn't know what others experiences have been. Appreciate the thoughts of anyone who has done it.
Mike
I love to talk about it, I start by referencing the blessing that my current career is and about the fact that it's put me in a position to begin investing in real estate. Of course my position may be different than others, but I have no plans of quitting my day job, I'm simply planning for the future and working to replace my income for my family, in case something happens to me.
It's never a good thing to tell your boss or co-workers, let alone the CEO, of any outside interest involving your income from outside sources, especially REI.
Poker players, musicians, etc. As long as the subject of anything that detracts from your "work hours", it is seen as bad. Companies, especially corporations, pay "good money" to workers to do what? Do company-related work. Am I guilty of breaking this commandment? Yes. However, I try to keep it limited and on the DL.
Once I start becoming a real landlord, I think I'll be able to make it without working. Although my pay I'll miss greatly, hopefully, I'll be making a comfortable living being a landlord. It won't be easy and will most likely work more hours, but it will be work to further my cause doing something I like to do.
I am very transparent about being a Realtor and my investing at work. Just this year I have listed and sold 6 co-workers homes as well as helped 4 co-workers buy new homes, this doesn't count the referrals from those transaction either. I actually am afraid to leave my day job as my leads my dry up! I work in an office of roughly 400 people. People come to me all the time with questions about remodeling their kitchen and or bathroom. Which contractors to use etc. I figured if my director let me sell his house I am safe for now...
If I could do it again I would have gotten my license sooner just to help people out at work. It's a rich source of leads that are actually good buyers. They have jobs and make enough money to buy the houses they want.
As the discussion has shown, like so much in real estate the answer is, "It depends."
I transferred to Las Vegas when given the opportunity, to begin my investing career. And as the boss, I felt comfortable discussing what I was doing with my employees. But I was in the food service sector so, most of my employees were young kids just getting started, and I always told them, I expect this to be your first job, and I see my job, as teaching you how to excel at being an employee and how to advance in any career you moved into. However, don't think that this can't be career that can transform your life, my bonuses are large, and I don't have to worry about money as long as I run my restaurant the right way.
Before or after high level management meetings we all talked, and I was very open about what I did on the side, everyone was talking about their new cars, new toys, expensive nights out, and all I could do was complain about not getting the interest rate that I wanted on the mortgage note. I used company sub-contractors on work on my buildings, and often talked to my boss about it. However, the time came when I was at that cusp point, and I went to my bosses boss, and said, "Look here's the deal, because I work 80 hrs a week, I am missing out on opportunities in investing, I either need to know that I will be promoted to make my time here worthwhile missing those opportunities, or I need to stop missing those opportunities."
Fortunately, for me, the job was pretty on-demand, so when something came up, I would take a break to go deal with it.
One thing I would say. I don't answer the phone during the day, ever. I tell everybody to leave a vmail. And if its really important, send me an email or a text. This way I can answer it on my own time. I'm in a lot of meetings and don't even have an opportunity to talk if I wanted to anyway.
I think it just helps to train the renters and the contractors and keeps my work life separate from my investing. That being said, I do get gaps in time between meetings or during meetings that I might jump on BP or respond to something. Every job I've ever had, I've just always had some downtime during the day that I didn't have enough work to keep me busy. That fact actually helped me self learn enough about investing to get me going.
My former company used to have layoffs every couple of years. And I used to joke with my coworkers that the investing was my own way of having unemployment insurance.
In terms of sharing. I used to share my investing stories with my friends at work. But about 3 years ago I switched jobs. I don't really tell anyone now. Just don't want people to create their own ideas about how they might think that would affect my performance.
Right now, they don't know I have rentals and they think I'm doing a great job. But I would always fear that if they knew I had rentals, that may lead to a perception that somehow I'm not doing as well as I could if I didn't have something going on on the side.
Definitely a slippery slope. I actually had a coworker friend request me on facebook. Well, I post all my before and after pics/videos on there. So I just let the request sit. :-)
Also a full time firefighter and I'm very open about it but only get into details if someone asks. One of my realtors is also my LT as well as an investor himself so it's pretty sweet.
Firefighting is a young person's game so we get a lot of 20 somethings that I try to steer toward real estate but nobody listens. They are after another 2% raise or another 2.5% on their pension or some other penny game. Maybe they'll get the chance to rent from me in the future!
My day job is Sr. Project Manager for the Government...and I have in my office a frame that says"Don't worry Buy Real Estate", and it always sparks a conversation. Or when I'm meetings where the ice breakers come up, I mention I ride motorcycles, I play golf and I love my passion which is Real Estate investing. I have yet to have some one NOT stop me when the meeting is over and ask about .... you guessed it...Real Estate, or I'm invite to play golf, and Real Estate always comes up while walking down the fairways.
I have had 5 deals from me mentioning what I do. And these deals have never came from the person that I was talking to but a person that knows them. They were just the instruction.
My long term recommendations are not to mention it because it is a double edged sword. Today it may be o.k.,tomorrow things may change. Had a colleague who ran a successful business and was fired because he made more than the boss.
Literally all our expenses were paid for & when I first sat down with the V.P. /Plant Manager who hired me as a consultant he said..."don't waste all the money your about to make on new cars like most of our engineers, buy property & buy a lot of it".
That was 1981...& I just arrived here from Australia & had already been very active in REI in Adelaide, South Australia so it was a no brainer per se.
Over the years I only ever discussed my acquisitions with him & he often gave great advice introducing me to some very well informed REI Investors he knew personally.
To echo a lot of others on this post, I do talk about it to those that are interested. Mainly because I'm excited about it and want them to make smart life desicions as well. The unmotivated audience will feel like your bragging and have loads of money. My work values an entrepreneurial workforce because they will take the initiative to get things done and make things better. They understand that just because your motivated to better yourself outside of work doesn't mean that your not motivated to help better the company you have your traditional job with as well. My advice would just be to get to know your audience before you get into to much detail. Toxic people that don't know the whole situation also tend to gossip and spread stupidity and miss information.
The closer I get to quitting my day job, the more transparent I've been about my REI-related activities.
I used to let my co-workers assume that the renovations I've been working on (for basically 3 years straight now) were all on my personal home, instead of on my personal home AND also several investment properties. Now that the risk of negative consequences is lower, I'm more straightforward.
IE:"How was your weekend?" "Pretty good, I tiled the kitchen floor in one of my rental apartments. Wanna see pictures?" Everyone loves seeing before-and-after pictures of a good renovation!
Other than that, I try to get my tenants/contractors/etc to email and text, instead of call. I rarely answer phone calls while I'm at work. If an emergency comes up I'll usually walk outside for a few minutes to make a call; not a big deal with my current work culture.
I would not lie about working in real estate, but definitely not a great idea to raise it with co-workers. It is not too difficult to build a million dollar net worth in real estate within 10 years. This makes people jealous. If the person sitting next to you is late 30's, looking at another 25 years of daily grind, and sees you are 5 years from retirement at the same age, they will get jealous.
I am with others who keep real estate business hours communications to texts and emails, and take calls at lunch / before /after work. If you work with someone who has a entrepreneurial personality, then by all means share your knowledge. But this is the minority. Most people want a boss, 401k, and benefits. I want my colleagues to continue to feel they are doing really well with their lives.
I've been at the same company now for 8 years. Over 8 years you can imagine that I have developed quite a bit of equity with the company over that time. In the past year I've turned down multiple promotional opportunities due to the fact that they would be interfering with my real passion RE. They wanted me to take positions that would include a lot more travel and prestige in the company but the $ per hour when all said and done is lower. In many companies if you don't tell them to "hit the brakes" you'll find yourself moving up that corporate ladder with no time to pursue RE.
I finally told my bosses what my goals are outside of work with RE. I prefaced the conversation with the fact that these activities were pursued exclusively outside of work hours. Though it is hard for some to understand that "the ladder" isn't everybody's end game they complimented me on my drive and promised to revisit me in 2 years with these same opportunities to see if my mind had changed.
If you have a good reputation at your job/company I believe you should share this with people you work with. These same people could end up providing you with private $ when you break out on your own.
- Rental Property Investor
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Most people at my current job know that I have rentals and they're all cool about it whether they ask honest questions or make jokes about me knocking down doors for my rent money. It's all in good fun. I don't really talk about it much though because I know many of them aren't actually interested and would just glaze over.
My boss has his own business of sorts (not REI) so I know he can relate to having things outside of the office. Another coworker will talk to me for an hour about her martial problems and not even ask me once something about my life. So I stopped talking about REI or really expecting any actual conversation from her a while ago. lol
I'm a Flight Paramedic, so at work I'm either possibly available if needed(doing paperwork, equipment checks, etc) or absolutely not(on a flight). I don't have a boss over me so I'm sure its different than most people in an office setting and most of my coworkers either have a part time job or some other interest so I tell everybody. It's lead to deals, tenants, and everybody has a neighbor or cousin who does such and such so its helped build a good list of subs.
Best of all though I'm able to make referrals to my subs and keep them busy with good clientele. We had a heat wave this last week and in 5 days I made 6 referrals to my HVAC Tech. My guys will tend to go the extra mile for me and appreciate the steady stream of business.