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All Forum Posts by: Isaac El

Isaac El has started 49 posts and replied 257 times.

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Frank Chin:

@Isaac El

You should concentrate on homes that owners abandoned rather than pestering people for the reasons I cited, that has no reason to sell the home to you.

As you are in NY State, the state developed a registry of Zombie homes that you can obtain information on the owner: Zombie homes

Most of the properties are in foreclosure or pre-foreclosure, though for insurance reasons the banks still keep it in the owners name. Personally I haven't gone this route as I invested in A or B type areas with adequate down payments.

Thank you Frank, I am definitely going to try that, really excited.

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Tim Lockhart:

May help to build a little rapport before going in with the question of selling.  Mail an offer.  Often people respond much differently to an actual offer than they do the question of what they will accept.  

 Hi Tim,  That is an interesting approach so you mail them actual offers and follow up with phone call regarding offer you sent? It a letter with where you mention amount, or like an actual formal offer letter?

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @James Hamling:
Originally posted by @Isaac El:
Originally posted by @James Hamling:
Originally posted by @Isaac El:

I am new to cold calling - can definitely use tips from the pros on BP

Went driving for dollars and got list of a bunch of vacant houses that are in very distressed condition

Got the owners information

Call the property owner, introduce myself, ask "Would you be interested in taking an offer on your property" or "I am interested in making an offer on your property"

property after property, call after call, I get "not for sale" or "no" and they hang up.

What is wrong with my pitch? very demotivating.

 As a Sales Trainer the first thing that immediately jumped out at me is you leading with an "ask", and need to be leading with a "give". 

First thing you need to do is warm a person up, and you will know that's happening when they are doing most of the talking and your doing most of the listening, until then it's just "Pitching", or more aptly put Carnival Barking. 

I am not going to give out my whole script, and it has to vary depending upon a persons own style, but try saying something more on line of "Hey Bob, I'm James and I was calling because a friend had noticed your property out on _____ , well, it looked a bit rough, like it's been empty for some time, and knowing I kind of specializing in helping people with these kind of properties, just reaching out to find out if it's something I could help with, make sense" (yeah, that makes sense, who told you) "yeah, Phil, he's a friend and co-worker, I think he actually was driving by and noticed the place. So tell me the story Bob, what you got going on with that place".......

See, thing is you only push just enough to get them talking, and give a bit of direction, that's it. And never ask an open-ended question, you only ask a question that has only a positive answer for, example, I said "make sense", people will always say yes because to say no infers they are dumb, so they say yes, and I started a "yes" cycle, which more they say yes, more they will want to say yes, more they will feel yes. 

My best suggestion to anyone is get sales training, it's a skill like driving a race car, just because you can drive a regular car (ie talk to people) dosn't mean didily squat for being capable to doing anything more in that race car than crash (ie sales). BUT it's a skill that I truly believe anyone can learn and incorporate, even master if they just try. 

I really appreciate the response, I am going to take the advice and try out the new approach starting this week.  Just out of curiosity, if you want to keep them talking, wouldn't it be better to ask an open ended question? Because if they just answer "yes" (or no) then your doing the majority of talking asking lots of questions? Or maybe a combination of both?  Would love to hear your advice.

 No, we never (NEVER) ask open-ended questions. To a completely untrained person it's hard to explain because you wouldn't even understand the underlying mechanics at play. When is a selling situation it is mental gymnastics, we are applying focus and conscious effort not just randomly talking. Our training comes from neurosciences, psychology, sociology and it intensely regimented. For example, a person's mental-emotional state must be in a conducive state to move forward int he ways we would like to such as entertain selling and so on, and if it's an estate home and you let them wander off in conversation to reminisce about there deceased loved one, falling into sadness and sorrow, well thats it it's done you might as well just hang up or walk away because in the state of mind it's done unless your looking to affirm the negative state of the property, and if so than it would work on with transference in part but it also transfers emotional attachments and that presents problems itself.  

I appreciate the clarification and you make a good point

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Frank Chin:
Originally posted by @Kai Van Leuven:

@Frank Chin

Would not consider myself a super salesman. I mostly see myself as a negotiator. The key to negotiating is aligning goals/outcomes.

Most folks who have a person living in the house that is not paying rent or keeping it up might also want them out of the house and to get paid.

Fake Scenario:

Grandma was the owner (deceased)

“Kids” inherited property

“Grandkids” living in property

If the “grandkids” are living in the property without rent and “kids” are freeloading, at some point wouldn’t the “kids” want to be paid out? Why would they continue to support someone who is not paying? The “kids” may also not want to list the house for sale. Think about all the drama associated with listing, selling, fixup, ect. Grandkids may say “you are putting us on the street”, while choking down tears. That is a lot of weight that is put on the “kids”. You come in and say, “I am going to make this easy on you Mr. Kid. I will go in one time to inspect the property we will give the “grandkids” 45 days to find a new place and this will be the easiest sale.”

The “Grandkids” are not your customer. They are just a holdout on the property. Your customer is the owner. Period. The owner/kid is probably annoyed that they have a property that they are keeping up that has equity. That is your in.

I've seen comparable real life examples.

If grandma only has one child, the child inherited a mortgage free home, there is no urgency for them to move or demand rent from their kids. Normally the issue arises when grandma has several kids, one of them lives in the home, rent free. It's not unheard of that they don't bother to probate if it means they have to get their siblings involved and want their share, and they have to move. That's unless a persistent cold caller comes in and stirs the pot.

The tenant I mentioned who wants to move back to their parents place when they passed, had two siblings, and the drama played over a year as their couldn't agree on a price. My tenant thought his siblings are trying to rip him off. He kept me posted because his move out kept being delayed.

I own a rental and got to know the owner of a deli down the street. It ran well over the years, then closed, and the upstairs tenant moved out. The place was vacant for nearly two years. Ran into him, and he complained that several siblings inherited it, including him, and one of them want a ridiculous price, so they're stuck with it, i.e. the vacant property. 

I don't know that as an investor I want to waste my energy getting involved with all these family squabbles. I also personally know friends and relatives with older children whose in their 40's and 50's, with social and mental issues, still at home with mom and dad, rent free, and mom and dad tells us that they're worried when they're gone, they don't know what will happen. These people all have paid off homes, and myself being a real estate investor can foresee a fast talker coming in, take over, and the kids will wind up on the streets, especially if they have greedy siblings, and the parents don't have the foresight to handle in the will. My wife went to grade school with a girl, and 50 years later, we run into her parents on the street from time to time. She was never able to hold a job, never married, and they're stuck with her, and don't know what to do. If I was an investor, I don't want to mess around with an estate with such issues. 

They best way to handle it is make an offer, if nothing happens, move on. I myself no longer answer calls from unknown numbers. But when I did, the first question usually is "are you the owner of ….", I answer NO and hang up.

I am learning so much from you two discussing the two sides of this.

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Kai Van Leuven:

@Frank Chin

Would not consider myself a super salesman. I mostly see myself as a negotiator. The key to negotiating is aligning goals/outcomes.

Most folks who have a person living in the house that is not paying rent or keeping it up might also want them out of the house and to get paid.

Fake Scenario:

Grandma was the owner (deceased)

“Kids” inherited property

“Grandkids” living in property

If the “grandkids” are living in the property without rent and “kids” are freeloading, at some point wouldn’t the “kids” want to be paid out? Why would they continue to support someone who is not paying? The “kids” may also not want to list the house for sale. Think about all the drama associated with listing, selling, fixup, ect. Grandkids may say “you are putting us on the street”, while choking down tears. That is a lot of weight that is put on the “kids”. You come in and say, “I am going to make this easy on you Mr. Kid. I will go in one time to inspect the property we will give the “grandkids” 45 days to find a new place and this will be the easiest sale.”

The “Grandkids” are not your customer. They are just a holdout on the property. Your customer is the owner. Period. The owner/kid is probably annoyed that they have a property that they are keeping up that has equity. That is your in.

love this and you are definitely super sales man!! 

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Joe P.:

I'm pretty sure I could get a cold call of someone offering me $10,000, no strings attached, and I'm probably going to be skeptical and/or hang up. That's how much I hate cold calls.

I know this sounds crazy, but if you're seeing an owner pop up multiple times, I think you'd get more mileage out of checking out any available social media they have, trying to meet them at something they enjoy, striking up a conversation, and building a relationship (professional of course). Ok, I realize this is stalking in some form, but would work better than cold calling (for me). A letter isn't a bad idea -- handwritten or typed with a wet signature -- but still. People own homes, people sell homes -- its a people business.

you are totally right, and that is a great out of the box idea.  I am going to change my approach and be more personal.

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Todd Snyder:

Check out Jerry Norton with flipping mastery tv on YouTube! He does a GREAT job teaching cold calling and gives free scripts on how to talk to motivated sellers! Its a great channel with GREAT information for investors learning the ropes!

thanks Todd, I never heard of him but will deff check it out. 

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:

I agree with @Kai Van Leuven , make it a personal conversation and don't be a sales man. 

I don't buy so many properties, but I've been able to buy most of the ones where I contacted the owner. I knock on the door and fly by the seat of my pants wherever the conversation goes. I don't try to do a hard sale. I tell them why I noticed the property and what I can envision for it and ask them what their plan is. 

I'm also on the receiving end of an average of 10 calls, texts, postcards a day. I still own 13 properties in a gentrifying neighborhood. I'm a total b*tch and tell most of them to 'go to h*ll'. Yes, I'm an investor and should understand their side and should have the patience, but it's clear that to almost all of these investors I'm just a number and I don't react well to that. 

They all say and write the same thing. Every freaking one says something like :"I know this call comes completely out of the blue..." or "I know this is completely unexpected"or "I know this is surprising.." They all start off the same....must have all taken the same course and I tell them that it's not out of the blue at all, since I had 3 or 4 calls saying the same thing in the past hour. It's an insult to my intelligence, when they print these postcards with "...street" printed in a different color or font, showing that they have this blank formula and just instruct the computer to fill in that address. But I were to call them back, my name would not mean anything to them. 

I think that's the crux of a lot of things in this world: gangs, school shootings etc: ......people want to matter. Nobody likes to be treated like they're a nobody and the person on the other end of the call will just say 'next', when you hang up. And that's what you're telling the other person with those mass emailers or phone calls. 

Knocking on someone's door takes a lot more effort and it shows some investment of time. That's why those who do it have better results. And that's why most investors don't want to do it. They just want to get the numbers in: I can print and mail 500 cards in a day or I can knock on 10 doors - so, the go for the 500 contacts. Quantity over quality. 

Every once in a while some investor gets past my defenses and gets me to talk. I can tell that they're more experienced and aren't reading from some print-out. They ask questions and I give them honest answers. I tell them why I'm not selling the burn-out (because it's part of an assemblage and the other 6 properties next to it are part of it) or why the house next to mine will be difficult to buy, but I'd be happy, if they would (aunt died and 2 of the nephews took over and have lively drug sales out of it. No probate was ever done and all of the other cousins are ok with that, as they can also handle their prostitution business out of it. ) 

Let your potential seller know that this is about this house (and not just a number) and that they are the one in control and are important and listen to them. Work with them. Find out their motivation and then create a custom solution for them. 

If it's their deceased mother's house and they feel they'd be a bad son for selling, suggest that they could donate for a bench in the park around the corner, that would have a plaque with the mother's name, so that all of the people that knew her can notice her generosity. Suggest to use the money for a scholarship for a student at her college.......I don't know, make it personal, make it about that house, let the seller know that they matter. 

I totally love your response, and I think it is so funny that you are an investor and get these calls on other properties you own.  And have to be honest, I am guilty of the "I know I am calling you out of the blue" I have tried, didn't work. LOL no I know why! I get the message loud and clear, going to start calling with a new approach and making it personal.  Quality of quantity, I got it, thank you! 

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Frank Chin:

Isaac, I understand your frustrations. But I am also on the receiving end of such communications and calls, as well as close relatives and friends. You have to understand the selling of a "home", unlike that of an investment property, is something very personal, and involves careful thought.

My first experience with this is back in the 80's, my dad owned a mix use property, two stores on the ground floor, and apartments upstairs and he lived in one and four garages. He was sick, hospitalized, then decided to close the business he ran in one of the stores. The other store was vacant. The mortgage was also paid off. He was planning on putting in new store fronts, residing the building before renting it out, but it took a while since he's recuperating, so the place look vacant of over a year. Guess what?? He got mail offers, phone calls to buy his place some callers are so convincing he actually wanted to sell. 

He didn't sell because I convinced him it was a bad idea. He had a cashed based business, reported little income, and his social security wouldn't be much. But he had a stack of cash, and once the building is renovated, the store rents, apartment rent, garage rent will fund his retirement. Also I warned him if he live a long life, like his parents, and brothers, the sale of the property for $250K won't fund his retirement, He died a few years ago, the rents indeed fund his retirement over 30 years, still had the building and his children, myself included sold it on a step up basis for $1.1million. And yes, $250K cash won't fund a retirement of 30 years.

Then I had a tenant whose parents died, and left him and his two siblings the family home. Problem was some years back my tenant renovated his parents home, added living quarters on the 2nd floor, was ready to move in. Due to a dispute, did not. On his parents death, wanted to move back, in but had to deal with his siblings, which took over a year. Meanwhile, he was getting calls on the vacant house. Question is, is it good idea to discuss his family problem with total strangers, or just say NO, I'm not selling. 

And I knew of a few people who lived in their parent or grandparents home, rent free, years after their parents are gone. In some cases, the property looks unkempt. One lady who works with me never got a raise, because our employer, a private company, does not fire poor performers, just not give them raises. She said, "that's OK, I'm not paying any rent". Imagine a fast talking cold caller convince the owner, her grandma. to sell and she'll be out on the streets. 

Finally, sad to say, my mom in law just past last year, and we finally settled her estate, including real estate, sold on a stepped up bases. She has not lived there for two years after leaving the hospital, staying with her children including us. Her thought was she'll get well soon enough to go home, though she's in her 90's. So are we going to sell it to an investor, or keep the vacant home for her? My wife goes a few times a month to clean up the place, so it's another situation where it's NO, the property is not for sale.

My MIL was not the only one in such a situation. A house vacant for several years down the block from me was in the news, some fraudsters look a $200K home equity loan, cashed out, then disappeared. Turned out the owner was in a nursing home out of state, and the family is holding the property till he's well enough to get home.

Isaac, there are many cases where apparently vacant unkempt properties are NOT for sale. You'll have to be patient and get at it, in some cases, 5 to 10 years or more. In @Kai Van Leuven example, I doubt whether the person living there, most likely rent free, in her grandma's home is anxious for grandmas to selling it, and he winds up homeless on the streets. It takes super salesmanship to convince someone to go homeless.

I really love your response because it helped me see it from the other side.  This entire time I was like looking it as just business, its a vacant house falling apart, whats wrong with them why wouldn't they sell it?! But I am now seeing from so many responses here, that is the wrong approach.  Yes to me its business, its a property, to the other end its a home and personal attachment.  So I need to slow down, make the calls, establish a connection, and then take it from there.  I guess really to learn whats up with the property.  Thank you for your response.

Post: Vacant house - owner says not for sale - what is your strategy?

Isaac ElPosted
  • Springfield Gardens, NY
  • Posts 258
  • Votes 63
Originally posted by @Kai Van Leuven:

@Isaac El

I don’t knock in the ghetto because I don’t buy there. I like buying in nicer ‘burbs. I was assaulted by one of my tenants a few years ago but that was a rare scenario. I don’t really buy a lot of deals and am pretty “anti-scale”. The shotgun/funnel approach that is heralded by most folks on here just seems like you want a sales job in real estate. I have been in sales. It’s just an “eating what you kill” grind.

Oddly enough I convert well over 50% of the people I talk to into a purchase. I have been evaluating property since I was 16 and spend 2 years knocking on doors and talking to folks about more uncomfortable topics (religion), lol!

Learn what works for you man. I really like people and real estate and this style suits me well.

 I really appreciate it - yes I am not going after a ton of deals.  Just driving for dollars in the areas I invest in and have some properties on my radar that I would love to purchase, most vacant or severely distressed.  I will take your advice and try some door knocking and have that personal touch to it.  Sorry to hear about you getting assaulted by tenant.  Had a similar situation, bought a foreclosure property which was abandoned.  When we came to do clean out, all the sudden the former owner showed up... it was bad.  Thank fully I wasn't alone and was able to talk him down to calm down a little.  In the end we agreed to give him some money because he was claiming he was "storing" items there that were all covered in mold... honestly was BS but not worth hassle of time and attorneys.