No shower for 3 days due to necessary repair

[Kay B.]

I am a new landlord and need to replace the only shower in our rental property, which will take 3 days to complete. The tenants will be staying at the premises for the duration of the repair and expect compensation for the inconvenience/impact. We offered them 25% rent reduction in daily rent throughout the course of the 3 day repair, but they have countered with expecting a full days rent reduced for each day. What are we legally required to prorate/deduct in rent considering it is their only shower and will not have one for 3 days? Thank you! 

[Bob P.]

Quote from @Kay B.:

I am a new landlord and need to replace the only shower in our rental property, which will take 3 days to complete. The tenants will be staying at the premises for the duration of the repair and expect compensation for the inconvenience/impact. We offered them 25% rent reduction in daily rent throughout the course of the 3 day repair, but they have countered with expecting a full days rent reduced for each day. What are we legally required to prorate/deduct in rent considering it is their only shower and will not have one for 3 days? Thank you! 

Is it a health or safety issue to replace the shower? Or is it simply cosmetic or preventative or an upgrade? Three days to replace a shower seems a bit long.

If it's a health or safety issue I'd offer 1/2 day per day down and provide them with a bucket to shower in. (Just kidding about the bucket, I'd make them buy their own bucket). ;-)

However, if it's cosmetic,I'd just wait until they vacate.  

[Chris Seveney]

Quote from @Kay B.:

I am a new landlord and need to replace the only shower in our rental property, which will take 3 days to complete. The tenants will be staying at the premises for the duration of the repair and expect compensation for the inconvenience/impact. We offered them 25% rent reduction in daily rent throughout the course of the 3 day repair, but they have countered with expecting a full days rent reduced for each day. What are we legally required to prorate/deduct in rent considering it is their only shower and will not have one for 3 days? Thank you! 

 Why are you replacing the shower? Is it an emergency that needs to be replaced? Typically something like this we would coordinate a time when the tenant is out of town traveling etc.

Also 3 days for a shower seems excessive. Should be able to be done in a day or two max and shower on 3rd day. 

As for deduction in rent, we typically do nothing. We in our lease addendum have language that the property is X years old and may require components to be replaced which is not uncommon and no rent reduction or hotel will be provided. We strongly urge tenants to have insurance to cover these types of situations.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Kay B.:

You are being generous. 

1. There is no need for the tenant to shower every day. 

2. The shower is not even 5% of the home's function. Why would you give them free rent with they still have full access and use to the stove, refrigerator, walls, closets, flooring, roof, garage, lawn, etc.?

When I have issues like this, I give the tenant a free membership to a nearby gym where they can shower. A month at Anytime Fitness will cost you less than $50 and they can shower 20 times a day without a problem. Add $50 for the inconvenience of having to drive somewhere to shower, and you are still saving a ton of money.

[Kay B.]

Thank you all for your quick responses, this is very helpful! The reason the shower is being replaced is because they notified me of a water leak coming from the shower. When two separate plumbers looked into the issue they both determined the shower needed to be replaced because it was improperly installed (by prior homeowners we purchased it from) causing the leak.

As for the length of time the repair will take, it was 3 days total to rip out the shower, install the new concrete pad, install the new shower, etc. I certainly wish it would take less time. 

I am primarily concerned it is a matter of inhabitability if no usable shower is available for 3 days and that could hold up in court if they chose to go that far to get full days rent off. They have been very difficult tenants from the start, and I do not trust them unfortunately. 

[Andrew B.]

Refunding their entire rent for the 3 days can't be more than $300, maybe $400 if its a really high rent. You've already offered to reimburse them 25%, so the only difference we are talking about is a maximum of $300. I wouldn't spend 2-3 hours talking to people on BP and negotiating with the tenant for the sake of $300. I would just refund the money for the 3 days and thank them for being great tenants. Spend those 2-3 hours finding your next investment, and you'll make way more than that $300. 

[Bob P.]

Quote from @Kay B.:

Thank you all for your quick responses, this is very helpful! The reason the shower is being replaced is because they notified me of a water leak coming from the shower. When two separate plumbers looked into the issue they both determined the shower needed to be replaced because it was improperly installed (by prior homeowners we purchased it from) causing the leak.

As for the length of time the repair will take, it was 3 days total to rip out the shower, install the new concrete pad, install the new shower, etc. I certainly wish it would take less time. 

I am primarily concerned it is a matter of inhabitability if no usable shower is available for 3 days and that could hold up in court if they chose to go that far to get full days rent off. They have been very difficult tenants from the start, and I do not trust them unfortunately. 

Your comment: "that could hold up in court". You are over thinking this.

They would have to pay an attorney $5,000 retainer just to get his attention to have him tell them they have no case. 

The others above have offered several very practical solutions. 

[Ned J.]

At most I would give them a gift certificate to go out to dinner on me..... thats it. Its a necessary repair...inconvenient but necessary. 

3 days to do a shower that has water damage in not excessive at all...dont be shocked if its more once them demo and find more damage

[Russell Brazil]

How much is this 25%? How much is the 100%?

I can't imagine we are talking about a lot of money here.

[Kay B.]

Thank you for the additional replies, it is so greatly appreciated! I am likely overthinking this as Bob P. mentioned, however I am trying to be as informed as possible before finalizing our decision. 

I was asked how much a few days rent reduced would cost, if it is 100% reimbursement over the course of the repair it would be just over $200. 

Also, good point about it potentially being more than the estimated 3 days once they get in there, I hope not.

With all that being said, I am trying to be as unbiased and remove our “history” so to speak with these tenants regarding our decision for reimbursement, and making it purely about what is legally required and appropriate given the repair. Our relationship with them is not ideal, we have already had to serve them a cure or quit notice earlier in their lease term (approx. 1-2 months after moving in) due to multiple, egregious lease violations, however because they “cured” the violations could not proceed with evictions. It is unfortunately a rather complicated situation. 

[Colleen F.]

@Kay B.  give them a choice of a month of gym membership or the rent credit you suggested.  They can go get a camping tent shower if they want, it is august. 

[Mike Dymski]

maybe put in a temporary outdoor shower

[Matthew Paul]

I shower once a month whether I need it or not . The gym membership sounds like a good Idea .  Or a hotel room for a day or 2 . 

[Wesley W.]

Quote from @Bob P.:
They would have to pay an attorney $5,000 retainer just to get his attention to have him tell them they have no case. 

You clearly have never own rental properties in NYS, sir.

Every tenant gets a pro bono attorney for landlord/tenant matters, and there are TONS of these young law school grads working for United Tenants or other such orgs that are more than willing to make a case out of nothing, throwing it on the legal wall and see if any of it sticks.

But, I digress...

Here's an angle no one has yet taken on this one.  Are they on a term lease, or MTM?  (look up my detailed posts on the benefits of MTM here on BP)  How about getting a plumber to triage the leak, serve them a notice of termination (or not renew their term), and then you kill two birds with one proverbial stone?  You get rid of (what sound like inherited) tenants that are a hassle - and will continue to be - their behavior never improves, fyi.  And you have a vacant unit to do the "proper" plumbing repair.

If you offer them a rent concession, my money is on them going back to that well each time there is a problem, asking for yet another abatement.  Eventually becoming more emboldened to threaten legal action.

I know, I'm cynical.  But I've been renting class C in NY for ten years.  I'm a product of my environment. ;)

[Bob P.]

Quote from @Wesley W.:

Quote from @Bob P.:
They would have to pay an attorney $5,000 retainer just to get his attention to have him tell them they have no case. 

You clearly have never own rental properties in NYS, sir.

Every tenant gets a pro bono attorney for landlord/tenant matters, and there are TONS of these young law school grads working for United Tenants or other such orgs that are more than willing to make a case out of nothing, throwing it on the legal wall and see if any of it sticks.

But, I digress...

Here's an angle no one has yet taken on this one.  Are they on a term lease, or MTM?  (look up my detailed posts on the benefits of MTM here on BP)  How about getting a plumber to triage the leak, serve them a notice of termination (or not renew their term), and then you kill two birds with one proverbial stone?  You get rid of (what sound like inherited) tenants that are a hassle - and will continue to be - their behavior never improves, fyi.  And you have a vacant unit to do the "proper" plumbing repair.

If you offer them a rent concession, my money is on them going back to that well each time there is a problem, asking for yet another abatement.  Eventually becoming more emboldened to threaten legal action.

I know, I'm cynical.  But I've been renting class C in NY for ten years.  I'm a product of my environment. ;)

"You clearly have never own rental properties in NYS, sir."
"I've been renting class C in NY for ten years."

Lol, no and I wouldn't, because I think of future consequences.
You get what you vote for. You knew better, but you did it anyway. ;-)  

[Wesley W.]

Quote from @Bob P.:
Lol, no and I wouldn't, because I think of future consequences.
You get what you vote for. You knew better, but you did it anyway. ;-)  

Actually, all the progressive s**t didn't start until 2019.

[Bob P.]

Quote from @Wesley W.:

Quote from @Bob P.:
Lol, no and I wouldn't, because I think of future consequences.
You get what you vote for. You knew better, but you did it anyway. ;-)  

Actually, all the progressive s**t didn't start until 2019.

New York landlord law has been crazy for a lot longer than that. But, if it's all you know, I guess that limits your perspective somewhat. Research, research, research, it's a huge wonderful country out west, across the Hudson. AND, bonus point, no Indians to worry about, They settled down a long time ago.

[Greg M.]

The only shower is not available for 3 days and:

A) They have no other place in the unit to bathe. I refund them the full 3 days without giving it second thought. Maybe I throw a bottle of wine their way for their understanding. The cost of this is meaningless and it keeps them happy.

B) They have a tub in the unit. I likely refund them nothing. Offer my sympathies, but stuff happens. Point out the nice new shower. 

[Bob P.]

Quote from @Greg M.:

The only shower is not available for 3 days and:

A) They have no other place in the unit to bathe. I refund them the full 3 days without giving it second thought. Maybe I throw a bottle of wine their way for their understanding. The cost of this is meaningless and it keeps them happy.

B) They have a tub in the unit. I likely refund them nothing. Offer my sympathies, but stuff happens. Point out the nice new shower. 

My other side would say "If you want to control your life, pay the cost, take the risk, buy your own house and have two bathrooms" but that isn't nice, so I try to stick to my pleasant negotiator side. ;-)

[Don Konipol]

The real bottom line is do you want them as tenants.  I’ve had tenants that stayed for 10 years, prepaid rent 12 months in advance, and were always upbeat, happy and understanding.  Expected rent increases at lease renewal, with not a protest or counter.  I wanted them FOREVER.  

Of course, with 45 years of property ownership under my belt, I’ve had tenants from hell.  Like the one whose dog was ripping apart my house and during the lease she refused to constrain her “beast”.  (  I love dogs, I just think they need discipline).  I needed to initiate eviction, but since rent payments were not an issue the eviction was time consuming and difficult. (Apparently some people, including small court “judges” think the only lease violation serious enough to require eviction is non payment).  When she finally moved out the damage cost was $5500, exceeding her security deposit by $3,250.  I did get a judgement against her, had it recorded, engaged a collection agency, but after 3 years have yet to get paid. 

[Travis Timmons]

Lose the battle, win the war. Just refund 3 days rent and move on.

[Peter W.]

tenants_rights.pdf (ny.gov).  Tenants rights document from AG says, 

" 
Seeking Rent Reduction
If a landlord breaches the warranty of habitability, the tenant may sue
for a rent reduction. Alternatively, rent regulated tenants can also file
a rent reduction complaint with DHCR. Before filing such a complaint
with DHCR for breach of the warranty, the tenant must communicate in
writing with the landlord about the problem. A complaint may only be
filed with DHCR not less than 10 days and not more than 60 days from
the date the tenant sent a notice to the landlord. The tenant may also
withhold rent, but in response, the landlord may sue the tenant for nonpayment of rent. In such case, the tenant may countersue for breach of
the warranty.
The court or DHCR may grant a rent reduction if it finds that the
landlord violated the warranty of habitability. The reduction is
computed by subtracting from the actual rent the estimated value of
the apartment without the essential services. For a tenant to receive a
reduction, the landlord must have actual or constructive notice of the
existence of the defective condition."

If I were you, I would read the tenants rights document and then the actual code (
New York Real Property Law Article 7 – Landlord and Tenant (public.law)
).  Some local municipalities/counties have additional protections than the state does (e.g. NYC).  It seems like it is something of a gray area, because you are taking care of it, but you might lose this one in court.

There is also this,

"If an apartment becomes uninhabitable due to fire or other damage
not caused by the tenant, and the lease does not expressly provide
otherwise, the tenant may vacate the apartment and cancel the
lease. The tenant will not be liable for subsequent rental payments.
The landlord shall be responsible to refund any rent paid in advance
as well as any rent security held by the landlord (Real Property Law §
227). Rent stabilized and rent controlled tenants may apply to DHCR to
have an order issued reducing their rent obligation to $1 to maintain a
possessory interest in the apartment until it become habitable again."

Having at least one shower/bath is considered making a unit habitable--I believe (wasn't obvious from my limited research).  My guess is if this goes to court, you're going to be refunding them for rent for as long as the shower was out.

[Alan Asriants]

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Kay B.:

You are being generous. 

1. There is no need for the tenant to shower every day. 

2. The shower is not even 5% of the home's function. Why would you give them free rent with they still have full access and use to the stove, refrigerator, walls, closets, flooring, roof, garage, lawn, etc.?

When I have issues like this, I give the tenant a free membership to a nearby gym where they can shower. A month at Anytime Fitness will cost you less than $50 and they can shower 20 times a day without a problem. Add $50 for the inconvenience of having to drive somewhere to shower, and you are still saving a ton of money.

 I like this idea. 

1. 3 days is too long to repair shower - unless there is more to this issue we are unaware off

2. If you addressed it right away, no need to start giving things away. 

3. Seems like it might be a good idea to not renew their lease. 

Solid tenants will understand this.

I had a tenant who was eight months pregnant, and the entire homes 220 V lug burnt out. Meaning, there was no AC oven or other higher voltage appliances. I provided fans/window units and tackled the issue within a couple of days. Everyone was very thankful. 

[David Dachtera]

Quote from @Kay B.:

I am a new landlord and need to replace the only shower in our rental property, which will take 3 days to complete. The tenants will be staying at the premises for the duration of the repair and expect compensation for the inconvenience/impact. We offered them 25% rent reduction in daily rent throughout the course of the 3 day repair, but they have countered with expecting a full days rent reduced for each day. What are we legally required to prorate/deduct in rent considering it is their only shower and will not have one for 3 days? Thank you! 

Have you looked into any of those one-day bathroom rehabs being advertised on TV? 

[Henry Lazerow]

People in C and D class will tell the tenants to use their insurance and kick rocks. In my A or B area rentals we would definitely waive rent for those days and keep a good relationship. Why I have never had anyone not pay me and typically have tenants stay few years and OK annual rent increases. 

[Bud Gaffney]

Exactly what @Nathan Gesner said! Membership somewhere!