Previous Tenants damaged rental, blocked Landlord - Please advise

[Melissa Faraias]

Hello BP community,

I am a relatively new landlord, who has a few out of state rentals in South Carolina that were managed by a friend and his property management company. I recently took over the management of the rentals and a couple of months later the tenants in one of my units decided to move out. They were two young women who always paid their rent on time and seemed very responsible. As a result we were not expecting to see what we saw when we went to get the unit ready for the next tenants. The unit was completely dirty, damaged and looked like a fixer upper. I guess they did not clean the unit for over 3 years and did not call the old property management company when things started to break.  We got several quotes for cleaning and repairs, which added up to almost $4000 beyond normal wear and tear. We decided to keep their entire deposit of $2000 and bill them the rest. We sent them the photos and videos to back up the invoice and they have decided to block our emails and calls. What do you suggest we do in such a situation? To be honest, I think we may just need to bear the costs and learn from this and do regular unit checks going forward (which was not done by the previous property management company).  However I would hate for them to do this to their current landlord, who did not even call us for a previous landlord reference. Should we call up their current landlord to warn them about these renters? Can we do something else to scare them a bit so that they never do this again? Thank you for any advice you can give. 

[Will Gaston]

@Melissa Faraias sorry to hear that.

Where in South Carolina was this?

[Theresa Harris]

Honestly, just move on.  You could take them to small claims court, but even if you win, you're unlikely to see the money and will have spent a lot of time dealing with it.  Learn from it and do regular inspections-start more frequently with new tenants and then decrease the frequency.  Regular inspections are a good way to check if furnace filters are cleaned, smoke alarms are working, etc.

[Travis Lake]

Very good point Theresa.  I really like the idea of starting with higher frequency, and early inspections at first.   Maybe do an inspection on month 1 or 2 after move-in.  Then the next one on month 6.  And so on. 

[Henry T.]

Don't call their landlord.  Move on. Establish better future procedures and enforceable protective language in your lease.

[Bruce Woodruff]

I do not agree with those saying "just move on", and here's why: they will undoubtedly do this again, and we, as landlords, owe it to our fellow LLs to help each other.

Although you may very well never collect the money owed you (But you also may get at least some, read on to see why)....there is another bigger reason to go through the Small Claims process. Once you win in SC Court and have your Judgement, then you take the next step and Record that Judgement. 

Now they are screwed - every time they fill out an application, for their next rental, to buy anything on credit (like a car) or buying a house...this Judgement will pop up and they will be denied. Imagine never being able to buy anything again! This is why some people will then offer you the money, or some of it, for you to release the Judgement.

But even if you see zero money, you will have put the screws to these ladies. You will have essentially ruined their lives and prevented them from ever doing this again to another innocent Landlord. IMHO, you owe this to our community. And you will feel good about it....

Also, as said above, you gotta do regular inspections!

[Adam Bartomeo]

I don't agree with the majority but agree with @Bruce Woodruff.

We don't go to small claims as there are court cost. We do put them in collections which hits all 3 credit bureaus and doesn't cost us anything. 1. We want our money. 2. We want everyone to know who they are dealing with.

We do NOT call current landlords as this would open us up to some liability. Besides, how would you find them?

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

I don't agree with the majority but agree with @Bruce Woodruff.

We don't go to small claims as there are court cost. We do put them in collections which hits all 3 credit bureaus and doesn't cost us anything. 1. We want our money. 2. We want everyone to know who they are dealing with.

We do NOT call current landlords as this would open us up to some liability. Besides, how would you find them?

That's a good point, it is a lot easier to just turn them over to collections....Are the requirements the same ? (To prove your case) It's usually a slam dunk to get a Judgement in SC Court as long as you provide a written contract/lease...

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Bruce Woodruff 

It is easier. You just need their contact info, some type of identification, lease, and tenant ledger. Thats it. Once they get in touch with the previous tenant they often ask for the inspection report. It takes us about 20 minutes to gather and forward the info, they do the rest.

[Ko Kashiwagi]

Sorry to hear this... You could take them to court but it's likely not worth your time & effort. Alternatively, this can be sent to collections (creditor transferring the responsibility of collecting debt to a third-party agency). For future operations, it would be best to require regular inspections and maintenance.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Adam Bartomeo:

@Bruce Woodruff 

It is easier. You just need their contact info, some type of identification, lease, and tenant ledger. Thats it. Once they get in touch with the previous tenant they often ask for the inspection report. It takes us about 20 minutes to gather and forward the info, they do the rest.

 Interesting! I looked it up just for fun, here's a link:

https://www.thefaircapital.com/post/debt-collection-agency-v...

[Leroy K. Williams]

Hi Melissa,

if a tenant has occupied your home for 3 years you should expect that at the point you are turning it over to a new tenant there will be something needed besides light cleaning.  If they have not hit the previous PM with maintenance calls you should look at the $4,000 as deferred maintenance.  Even in the best scenario you would have spent $1,500-$2,000 to update the smoke detectors and C02 testers, cleaned the carpet, re-glaze the bathtub, update any leaks and light paint and wall repairs.  

Going after a tenant who paid for 3 years on time is extreme. Move on.  Someone should have done a better job of inspecting prior to returning the security deposit. 

[Stetson Oates]

Quote from @Leroy K. Williams:

Hi Melissa,

if a tenant has occupied your home for 3 years you should expect that at the point you are turning it over to a new tenant there will be something needed besides light cleaning.  If they have not hit the previous PM with maintenance calls you should look at the $4,000 as deferred maintenance.  Even in the best scenario you would have spent $1,500-$2,000 to update the smoke detectors and C02 testers, cleaned the carpet, re-glaze the bathtub, update any leaks and light paint and wall repairs.  

Going after a tenant who paid for 3 years on time is extreme. Move on.  Someone should have done a better job of inspecting prior to returning the security deposit. 

When you turn over the property some expenses are to be expected.  If they harmed the property with actual damage I would immediately demand payment, send to collections, and file a lawsuit in SC court.  You will never see the money but at least they will not be able to hurt another landlord this way.  

[V.G Jason]

Agree with @Bruce Woodruff

Set precedent. It's not about losing the battle, it's about winning the war. Who says those tenants didn't do it to a landlord prior, and you got the wrong end of this one on the follow?

Had they forced repercussions for this then, you wouldn't deal with it now. Do it for precedent, the future landlords will undoubtedly appreciate it.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @V.G Jason:

Agree with @Bruce Woodruff

Set precedent. It's not about losing the battle, it's about winning the war. Who says those tenants didn't do it to a landlord prior, and you got the wrong end of this one on the follow?

Right on, brother!

[Paul Halphen]

It is disheartening and frustrating every time a tenant moves out of a renovated property. The property feels like it needs to renovated again. This happens all the time even with good renters. Welcome to landlording.

[Melissa Faraias]

Thank you all for your responses. I received a text message from one of them yesterday that they considered all the damage as normal wear and tear and plan to fight to get their security deposit back. So now I'm not sure what to do. The damages are clearly beyond normal wear and tear and I do believe that they are oblivious since when the handed the keys over they told us that they had maintained the unit in impeccable condition. We are trying to decide the next course of action.

[Nathan Gesner]

I send these tenants to collections. It sits on their credit report for up to seven years. it's a warning to other landlords and prevents them from qualifying for a home loan, car loan, or credit card.

I've had some tenants sit in collections for years, then pay everything they owe because it was stopping them from doing something.

You should consider a new PM. Properties should be inspected at least once a year, sometimes more. That would have prevented this from getting out of hand.

[Drew Sygit]

@Melissa Faraias most important from all this is, what did you learn that you will do differently in the future?

We do Annual Evaluations/Walk-thrus to monitor tenant damages. We try to do them 60-90 days BEFORE lease renewal, so we don't renew a tenant taking poor care of a property.

Appears your tenants will be challenging your keeping of their SD. So, be sure to check your state & local laws and follow them EXACTLY or risk losing. In Michigan, a landlord can be required to pay back 3x the SD if they violate the process!

[Kiefer Cheney]

Now you have to go to court either way to fight them off with the security deposit and you have all the evidence you need to slam dunk them in court. Just think of all the grief, anxiety and pain they have put you through with this whole situation. Do you want another land lord to go through this knowing that you could have stopped it??

[Tom T.]

@Melissa Faraias

What specifically does this 4k cover? New carpet and paint could run close to that. Unless there were holes in the walls or something that looked obviously damaged by them, I could see the wear and tear defense being accurate. Did you have everything new when they moved in? Do you have those receipts? Do you have a video? of before and after? Landlording can be bad news from time to time

Turnover can be expensive.

Document everything. Video file before and after. Good luck!

[Melissa Faraias]

 Thank you all for your response. The 4K is what we deemed to be their fault. We have had to cover several thousands in normal wear and tear because we don't have good videos or a move in condition report when they moved in. The property was not given to them in this condition and that is for sure. This is a lesson learned where I will be sure to document the condition of the unit well at move in and do regular checks throughout the year. Thank you all so much for all your valuable insights. 

[Tracy Minick]

Small claims court is great if you are both local. It is likely best to move on.