Who is more unethical Realtors or used car salesmen?

[Adam Bartomeo]

I know this will ruffle a few feathers but it is a fair question.

I have met and had hundreds of interactions with realtors and I am never surprised at the new lows that some of them can reach. I was also a manager at CarMax (the largest seller of used vehicles in the world) so I understand used car sales people.

Before you get too upset, I agree that there are good realtors and good used sales people out there (I think that they are few and far between). But, based on my experience both are highly questionable in their interactions and practices.

Most recently I found out that a realtor that represented me told the other agent pertinent information about my situation when I expressly told them that they were not to share it with anyone. This caused me a loss of about $10,000.

I am a highly religious man that tries to operate honestly and fairly in all interaction (I am human and do make mistakes). But, I have been lied to, deceived and wronged by almost every realtor and car salesman that I have encountered.

Please share your story with me and see if you can change my jaded view of these so called "professions" or share a story that reinforces my point of view.

[Vincent Crane]

There's good and bad people in every single profession, but you need to know how to vet them and find the best ones out of the bunch.

[Karen Margrave]

@Adam Bartomeo I'm sorry, stating that you're a religious person and then proceeding to encourage others to join you in bashing people isn't the best witness. Better to keep religion out of these discussions, and stick with the subject matter, as you see it. 

Realtors, used car sales people, lenders, service workers, religious and non religious are ALL people, and as such there are going to be those good at their jobs and bad. Ethics have nothing at all to do with a profession, but everything to do with character. 

When choosing to work with someone, it's up to you to do your due diligence and find someone that is compatible to your goals. Good luck in the future. 

[Account Closed]

@Ellie Hanson, I realize, of course, this is not a religious forum but since you wrote this, I feel it should be addressed: What you describe here is called "antinomianism" and the Bible very clearly speaks against this line of reasoning (e.g. Romans 6: 1-2). The Bible also clearly teaches that all are sinners: both secular and "spiritual" (Romans 3: 10-18).  

[Dawn Brenengen]

@Adam Bartomeo I think you are mistaking incompetence for being unethical.  I think most people are good, are not always looking out for JUST themselves, etc.  However, I do think the barrier to entry for the RE professional is terribly low for the high stakes transactions we are responsible for.  Most of the agents I come into contact with, doing deals and asking questions about listings, are lovely people who are working hard for their clients.  I do run into the occasional D-bag.  It happens.  I am not one of them.  99.9% is quite the dramatic overstatement.  It's more like 5% in my observances.  

An agent stating that their seller is willing to go lower does not necessarily mean they were being unethical.  The seller may have directed the agent to tell people that they are motivated and willing to negotiate price.  Actually, that would be pretty common.  

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Account Closed thank you for your comment. But I guess I'm a little unclear. What does you getting your license have anything to do with the topic at hand?

[Matthew Paul]

I buy my cars at the auction , and houses from private parties .   I have no need for either .

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Karen MargraveThank you for your post. I did NOT ask people to bash anyone

Please share your story with me and see if you can change my jaded view of these so called "professions" or share a story that reinforces my point of view.

I believe  that I asked for a story to change my view.  Out of the 37 people who have commented on this only to have provided good stories.  One being exceptional. My religious believes have nothing to do with the unethicalness of realtors

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Dawn BrenengenThank you for your comment and I agree with some of what you said. However, I never told my agent to disclose anything about my personal situation. As a matter of fact I told him to say nothing. $10k gone. 

I can deal with incompetent people for a time as they can be educated. I would ask you this. There have been about 10 people thy said the same thing as you, siting incompetent agents. wouldnt the brokers want to educate them?

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Account Closed Again, what does any of this have to do with the topic?

You are attacking me and now me as a veteran and me as a former manager, with no basis. I was deployed and I managed hundreds of associates. So, what?

What does passing the pretest have to do with being hard working? 

Funny, how you can not share a good story about a realtor. 

I am not upset nor will I attack back.

[Luka Milicevic]

Originally posted by @Adam Bartomeo:

I know this will ruffle a few feathers but it is a fair question.

I have met and had hundreds of interactions with realtors and I am never surprised at the new lows that some of them can reach. I was also a manager at CarMax (the largest seller of used vehicles in the world) so I understand used car sales people.

Before you get too upset, I agree that there are good realtors and good used sales people out there (I think that they are few and far between). But, based on my experience both are highly questionable in their interactions and practices.

Most recently I found out that a realtor that represented me told the other agent pertinent information about my situation when I expressly told them that they were not to share it with anyone. This caused me a loss of about $10,000.

I am a highly religious man that tries to operate honestly and fairly in all interaction (I am human and do make mistakes). But, I have been lied to, deceived and wronged by almost every realtor and car salesman that I have encountered.

Please share your story with me and see if you can change my jaded view of these so called "professions" or share a story that reinforces my point of view.

 Hi Adam,

I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I too have had bad experiences with both professions. 

I am a newer investor so I haven't dealt with too many realtors, but I have experienced 1 VERY unprofessional realtor and 1 somewhat shady realtor. I did also experience professional and ethical realtors and I sure do prefer working with them! I think sometimes you just get unlucky. 

Car salespeople are probably going to end up saving me a ton of money in my lifetime. How you might assume?

Well, my experiences have been so bad that I refuse to buy a new car until my current cars wheels fall off. They have given me such a bad experience that it has removed all temptation of me buying a new car.

[Kim Knox]

I hate to tell you this, but most great real estate closings are a bit unremarkable, particularly to the Client.  It sounds like you want to hear tales of heroism and sacrifice from Buyers and Sellers about their Agents.       

I would say some of the most difficult and upsetting transactions I have had, my Client were none the wiser.  They thought it was just another easy breezy transaction, while I quietly handled one problem after the next.                 

Trust me, just showing up with a big smile is sometimes much harder than it looks.

[Mark Ferguson]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

@Adam Bartomeo your experiences sound like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. I find it hard to believe that a respectable Realtor would entertain working with a client that feels the way you do.

 I love this comment. If you think all realtors are bad then you will probably gravitate to the bad ones to fulfill your idea of realtors being bad. 

If so many agents have treated you bad, maybe you should look at how you treat the agents? 

[Karen Margrave]

@Adam Bartomeo I don't like when people trying to make a point class people together in groups, assuming every person in that group thinks exactly the same, acts the same, etc. I don't care if it is real estate agents, contractors, lenders, pizza makers, service workers, black people, white people, men, women, young, old, blondes, brunettes, fat, skinny, etc. It's an extremely narrow minded viewpoint. 

I am an identical twin, therefore; have a clone. Guess what? We don't think alike on many issues, we don't act alike, etc. People are individuals, and as such are influenced by many things. 

As to changing your viewpoint, you're free to think any way you choose, doesn't affect me. 

[Tanja Davidson]

I just got my broker's license 9/12/15 and I'm now taking the 3 required post-license courses.  First off, I have a BS in Computer Science from NC State and 30 yrs experience working at the same university and the last 15 yrs has been working with ERP systems and Identity Mgmt systems.  So, I'm certainly not clueless.

In NC, our state is known as being one of the hardest to get a license in and after seeing how many people have been repeating the course I took or who were not able to pass the test I am feeling pretty good to have my license and am proud of it.  NC is pretty harsh on brokers who either break the law or NC License law.

As for honesty, I'd say it's who you picked.  In my classes, the ones I know who have passed have all come across to me as being very honest.  In the classes I took (from an atheist, and yes, I am also a Christian), he stressed the importance of not worrying about your commission.    He said just do right by your client and do your best and the money will come.  The customers can tell if you're being honest and genuine and will refer you if they feel you've done good.  They will also burn you if not.  So focus on your job and doing all you can for your customers and get it right and you won't have to worry about a check.

He also stressed over and over and over about how easy it is for a Realtor to end up in prison for loan fraud, misrepresentation, not doing his job right, etc, etc, etc.

I plan to do everything in my power to get it right, not just for myself or for the check but I sincerely want to help people get their future homes.

Sorry for your problems and good luck in the future transactions!

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Adam Bartomeo  so you want feedback on good agents   well even though I am a broker in 3 states I hire many to work for me so I am a pretty good judge of good ones and poor ones.

1. My husband and wife team in Charleston were I am building new construction. They created a dedicated website to only my projects.. Their marketing materials first rate.. Always return my calls within hours if not minutes. Bring me off market deals ( closing one end of the month) were they take no fee ( seller does not want to pay a fee.. And we give them list back.  Let me use their extra car when I am in town... Etc etc.

2. Realtor in Chicago who had to pick up a project that got 7/8ths done by a fellow BP member that I funded... made sure all remaining items got passed... met with inspectors and rehabbers since I am in Chicago... very on top of the escrow process and very detailed I will be giving him more business.

3. Team in PA  extremely knowledgable and proficient we have 4 or 5 going now I and I will double that for them.. they get to make commish on the buy  they get list side  plus large % of our net profit on the flip... how good is that for this Real estate team that is in my mind rock stars and VERY VERY good at what they do.

4. Realtor I work with in Birmingham we are high volume there 10 transactions a month minimum.. always keeps me in front of the deals.. plus pulls my leg some.. and tells me when I am funding too slow 

5. Realtor in Dallas that we use for higher end flips... he has a team... after a few successful deals he has agreed to take us on.. we feel blessed to have him working with us.

Then you have all the clients my wife and I have sold to and helped the last 35 to 40 years to many to count and many still my close friends after all these years.. Many I met selling RE to them and they ( as they prospered ) became investors in some of my bigger deals. 

[David Nolan]

@Adam Bartomeo Hi Adam

Your experience with Real Estate Agents and car sales people is viewed through your individual and unique perspective on life. From your life experiences, knowledge and beliefs. Your unique set of highest life priorities. Likewise, the sales people you encounter act based on their unique set of highest life priorities and experiences. Every person on the planet lives this way irrespective of religious beliefs or doctrines. The challenge in life is to accept that everyone has a different set of highest life priorities, of individual values based on their life. What we don't know when we deal with people, especially for the first time, is what their priorities and needs are.

We should not judge the actions of others by our set of values. Why? Because every person on the planet lives by their own set of values and will do whatever is right for them at the time. Me included! It is not a question of ethics and morals, these are merely constructs created by one form of society that will be different in another form of society. The key is to understand that WE ALL live by our own set of highest life priorities and simply accepting that makes my life easier.

When people make decisions in life they do so based on their current situation and the likely consequences as they affect their highest life priorities. If my highest life priority is my family and they are starving would I become a thief to feed them? If my income was threatened and it meant I could not keep my most valuable assets would I lie to protect them? If my health was my highest life priority and I was diagnosed with a serious illness would I take drugs? If my religious beliefs were my highest life priority and they were challenged would I go to war to protect them? Would I do any or all of these things? Absolutely. Why? Not because I am unethical or untrustworthy, or immoral. Because I am a human being and we ALL live by our own unique set of highest life priorities, ALL of the time.

Are 99.9% of all real estate agents and cars sales people unethical or dishonest? I doubt it, but they are all human, of that I am positive.

[Tanja Davidson]

Originally posted by @Adam Bartomeo:

@Dawn BrenengenThank you for your comment and I agree with some of what you said. However, I never told my agent to disclose anything about my personal situation. As a matter of fact I told him to say nothing. $10k gone. 

I can deal with incompetent people for a time as they can be educated. I would ask you this. There have been about 10 people thy said the same thing as you, siting incompetent agents. wouldnt the brokers want to educate them?

 You never said if you were buying or selling?  If you were buying and never signed an agreement with your agent then you're pretty much a 'customer' not a 'client' and he was actually working for the seller.  It's laid out in the rules that agents must represent a 'client' in a transaction so if it's NOT you it's going to be the seller.  Maybe that's why you think they were working against you.  AND they owe it to the seller to tell them anything that will help their situation.

Just saying.... I never knew this myself until I took pre-license and was shocked to find out that this is most likely the reason my agent suggested to me when I bought my house that the price being asked was 'pretty fair' and he didn't think they would come down.  I overpaid by about 15k.  But everything else was done in a most respectful and excellent way.  The whole process went so smoothly.  I still have a fondness for my agent.

[Dawn Brenengen]

Originally posted by @Adam Bartomeo:

@Brandon StevensI am in the process of getting my license. Because of my former position I moved a lot and it didn't make sense to get a realtor license to have to go back through the process.

I have reached out to realtors from different churches but haven't had much luck. Although, they seem honest they have been inexperienced and not motivated enough to work with an investor.

I believe that I stated that there are ethical realtors out there. This is from my original post "

Before you get too upset, I agree that there are good realtors and good used sales people out there (I think that they are few and far between). But, based on my experience both are highly questionable in their interactions and practices.

@Jacqueline CarringtonMy current realtor (who has been doing a good job) got a call from another realtor? The other realtor told her that the seller was willing to take a much lower price on a property. Isn't that against the law. Do you know that we get these types of calls about 2 times a month. These are people that I have never seen or met.

 The part of this post I underlined is what I was commenting on in my last comment. 

[Brie Schmidt]

First, you should start legal action against the agent, that is just unacceptable.

Second, being an agent myself I have had way to many dealings with bad agents, so I get your frustration.  @Danny Duran (my client) and I were in a situation where the mold test during the inspection period determined there were high levels of airborne stachybotrys (toxic black mold) and the seller refused to let the remediation estimators in because they had to wear a mask.  Well, there was a family with small children living in the unit and because we are not a mold disclosure state there was nothing we could do about it.  

Just last week I was negotiating an offer for a client, the seller countered and I called my client with the counter.  I told the agent that he would need to talk about it with his girlfriend.  A few minutes later my client told me to accept, but in the meantime the agent sent me back an email which led me to believe there was more room to negotiate.  So instead of submitting my clients acceptance we decided to counter again and got a lower price.  I could have not told my client about the email and gotten a higher commission, but that is not how I operate.  

[Jeff Morelock]

You forgot to mention wholesalers. I'd vote for wholesales. 

You know who I'm talking about... the people who litter intersections with bandit signs.(Illegal in a lot of places... illegal means breaking the law, which is unethical) 

Anyway, when a wholesaler puts up one of these signs that reads, "We Buy Houses" even though he or she is not really even a "we", and does not have any intention of actually buying the house, he or she is lying, which is unethical. 

When this wholesaler places ads advertising a house they don't even have under contract just to build a buyers list... you guessed it - unethical lies.

I know not every wholesaler operates like this, so if you're one of the ethical ones, I'm not talking about you.

[Ryan Dossey]

Originally posted by @Jeff Morelock:

You forgot to mention wholesalers. I'd vote for wholesales. 

You know who I'm talking about... the people who litter intersections with bandit signs.(Illegal in a lot of places... illegal means breaking the law, which is unethical) 

Anyway, when a wholesaler puts up one of these signs that reads, "We Buy Houses" even though he or she is not really even a "we", and does not have any intention of actually buying the house, he or she is lying, which is unethical. 

When this wholesaler places ads advertising a house they don't even have under contract just to build a buyers list... you guessed it - unethical lies.

I know not every wholesaler operates like this, so if you're one of the ethical ones, I'm not talking about you.

 Trolling are we? I think you know that topic has been beat to death. Let's stay focused and not hope to get votes.

I'm sorry you had a bad situation with an agent. I can tell you that I really have had the opposite experience with most of the agents I have dealt with. Most of them are willing to go the extra mile.

Ex: @Shawn Holsapple helped me buy my home out here. The bank goofed up and I ended up having to come up with more $$$ down than I had anticipated/been quoted. Shawn offered to lower his commission to go for a lower selling price. I declined. But that speaks volumes about the man's character!

[Jeff Morelock]

Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey:

Originally posted by @Jeff Morelock:

You forgot to mention wholesalers. I'd vote for wholesales. 

You know who I'm talking about... the people who litter intersections with bandit signs.(Illegal in a lot of places... illegal means breaking the law, which is unethical) 

Anyway, when a wholesaler puts up one of these signs that reads, "We Buy Houses" even though he or she is not really even a "we", and does not have any intention of actually buying the house, he or she is lying, which is unethical. 

When this wholesaler places ads advertising a house they don't even have under contract just to build a buyers list... you guessed it - unethical lies.

I know not every wholesaler operates like this, so if you're one of the ethical ones, I'm not talking about you.

 Trolling are we? I think you know that topic has been beat to death. Let's stay focused and not hope to get votes.

I'm sorry you had a bad situation with an agent. I can tell you that I really have had the opposite experience with most of the agents I have dealt with. Most of them are willing to go the extra mile.

Ex: @Shawn Holsapple helped me buy my home out here. The bank goofed up and I ended up having to come up with more $$$ down than I had anticipated/been quoted. Shawn offered to lower his commission to go for a lower selling price. I declined. But that speaks volumes about the man's character!

 I'm not "trolling" whatever that is... just googled it and I'm not trolling, and I could care less about getting votes.

[Bart Neyman]

The first principle in good business is Trust. Like minded people will always find each other. Truly helping someone find a solution for their problems is always a win win. Lose win or win lose never works out long term. Seek quality business men & woman out, and let the Holy Spirit of God lead you in your business decision making process. I wish for you much success.

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Ryan DosseyThat is the type of service that I had my associates strive for when I was with HD. Just the potential of doing the right thing keeps me loyal

[Ryan Dossey]

@Adam Bartomeo My Grandparents live out by you guys. Super jealous. I don't think I'll ever be able to talk the Mrs. into heading that way. (But we shall see!) 

It really is a "do unto others" heart issue.