What Do You Think Of All Of The Reverse Trolling in the Forums?

[Jonathan Greene]

First, let me define what I mean by reverse trolling. Reverse trolling is posing a vague question in your practice area to allegedly spur discussion, but it's always to get business. 

It's technically avoidant of advertising or self-promotion, but it always is blatant self-promotion opportunity. It's a way to skirt the rules IMO.

Is it responder beware (and technically in compliance) or just trash?

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Here are some examples:

Real estate agent in Topeka - "Anyone have thoughts on the Topeka real estate market?"

Lender - "What kind of rates are you guys seeing on DSCR lately?"

Software developer - "What things do you look for in a CRM?" (owns a CRM company)

Wholesaler in Akron - "What types of homes do you usually look for when you are looking off-market in Akron?"

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I am curious about the general feelings out there because I can be a bit hypervigilant, and posts like these drive me nuts.

[Joe S.]

Well, what do you think about people that make a slightly educational post then have one of their VA's on a different Bigger pocket account ask a question about the services that the OP provides and the OP makes a layout of the services they offer?

Sometimes it's the VA that asked the question first and then the person they're marketing for comes on the thread and answers the questions to promotes their services. Technically, they're not the same account, but they're definitely all working together and I believe some of the answers were created by the original product provider themselves.

Now, if it’s a back-and-forth service discussion and the questions are not being asked or answered by a pre-planed Conspiracy to openly market in a camouflage manner then that’s a different story in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I have openly ask a couple of posters before to tell me more about their services on an a public thread and they were happy to do so. However, it was not something that we planned on and I did not have any sort of communication prior to with that particular poster planning to highlight their services.

[Bruce Woodruff]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Not necessarily...

[Michael Diossa]

SEEN this before. I chuckle and move on. It's too obvious for anyone who's been in the game long enough.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Joe S.:

Well, what do you think about people that make a slightly educational post then have one of their VA's on a different Bigger pocket account ask a question about the services that the OP provides and the OP makes a layout of the services they offer?

Sometimes it's the VA that asked the question first and then the person they're marketing for comes on the thread and answers the questions to promotes their services. Technically, they're not the same account, but they're definitely all working together and I believe some of the answers were created by the original product provider themselves.

Now, if it’s a back-and-forth service discussion and the questions are not being asked or answered by a pre-planed Conspiracy to openly market in a camouflage manner then that’s a different story in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I have openly ask a couple of posters before to tell me more about their services on an a public thread and they were happy to do so. However, it was not something that we planned on and I did not have any sort of communication prior to with that particular poster planning to highlight their services.

good point Joe will have to see if I can see that kind of behavior..

[Scott Trench]

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

I don't really even notice them, and I certainly don't click on them to actually read and get involved.....Just another way of getting business and not a great one IMO..

By the way, does anyone know anything about framing a staircase?

I'm inferring from this post that your marketing strategy has a lot of... steps... to it.

[Scott Trench]

Quote from @Greg Scott:

Agree with you. I prefer the forum used for investors with actual questions.

I am not a fan of what you call reverse trolling.

I am not a fan of posts in the forum which have no questions and are basically blog posts. They are essentially the same thing you are describing, but sharing an "expert opinion".

I am also not a fan of how BiggerPockets itself is doing this same thing in the forum by posting blog posts and you don't have the ability to comment on the posting (because some times I disagree with the posting!)

 Thanks for the feedback here about the blog posts. I agree we should take them out of the feed. It was a test, sounds like not a successful one. Thanks!

[Alan F.]

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

I don't really even notice them, and I certainly don't click on them to actually read and get involved.....Just another way of getting business and not a great one IMO..

By the way, does anyone know anything about framing a staircase?

I'm inferring from this post that your marketing strategy has a lot of... steps... to it.

 Lol! I didn't take you for a pundit  

[Joe S.]

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Joe S.:

Well, what do you think about people that make a slightly educational post then have one of their VA's on a different Bigger pocket account ask a question about the services that the OP provides and the OP makes a layout of the services they offer?

Sometimes it's the VA that asked the question first and then the person they're marketing for comes on the thread and answers the questions to promotes their services. Technically, they're not the same account, but they're definitely all working together and I believe some of the answers were created by the original product provider themselves.

Now, if it’s a back-and-forth service discussion and the questions are not being asked or answered by a pre-planed Conspiracy to openly market in a camouflage manner then that’s a different story in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I have openly ask a couple of posters before to tell me more about their services on an a public thread and they were happy to do so. However, it was not something that we planned on and I did not have any sort of communication prior to with that particular poster planning to highlight their services.

good point Joe will have to see if I can see that kind of behavior..

 Oh, I’ve seen it before. I didn’t call it out due to who did it.  It’s not as common, though cause it takes a lot more work.😁

[Paul De Luca]

I can't believe anyone would stoop so low as to engage in reverse trolling on these forums. It's truly embarrassing for anyone who does that.

Anyway, what do you guys think about the Chicago real estate market?

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Ed O.:

The reverse trolling and self promotions are lame. Lot's of "look at me and here's why I am great" posts too. 

It really seems like the forums have been off for the last few months I've been reading them. 

Mostly gone are the contributors like the ones in this thread: lots of posts and lots of votes. Forums seem heavily loaded with newbs or takers - 20 posts for every vote type ratios... 

Not sure where everyone went.  

A lot of us are still here, but to be honest, it's pretty tough to navigate through the spam so things get lost in the shuffle. Hopefully, things like this can help bring it back if we all work to shut the obvious spam down. When stuff is close, it's fine, but some stuff is just so clear.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Joe S.:

Well, what do you think about people that make a slightly educational post then have one of their VA's on a different Bigger pocket account ask a question about the services that the OP provides and the OP makes a layout of the services they offer?

Sometimes it's the VA that asked the question first and then the person they're marketing for comes on the thread and answers the questions to promotes their services. Technically, they're not the same account, but they're definitely all working together and I believe some of the answers were created by the original product provider themselves.

Now, if it’s a back-and-forth service discussion and the questions are not being asked or answered by a pre-planed Conspiracy to openly market in a camouflage manner then that’s a different story in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I have openly ask a couple of posters before to tell me more about their services on an a public thread and they were happy to do so. However, it was not something that we planned on and I did not have any sort of communication prior to with that particular poster planning to highlight their services.

I was telling someone earlier that this is the LinkedIn ghostwriter strategy now and it's SO obvious when it happens. It's crazy that people think this works. The reason I make these posts is because I really worry for the new people who are so eager they will respond to anything and believe anything.

[Casi Rice]

@Jonathan Greene Hello! I am new to the bigger pockets community and feel as though maybe my last post was guilty of this and wanted to ask if you could take a look? I did put in there that I am not looking for business. I genuinely want to learn. I posted it in the "getting started forum". Do you see anything wrong with what I posted and if so, could you explain? I definitely want to use the platform properly and not annoy others. Thank you.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Casi Rice:

@Jonathan Greene Hello! I am new to the bigger pockets community and feel as though maybe my last post was guilty of this and wanted to ask if you could take a look? I did put in there that I am not looking for business. I genuinely want to learn. I posted it in the "getting started forum". Do you see anything wrong with what I posted and if so, could you explain? I definitely want to use the platform properly and not annoy others. Thank you.

I will have a look and can let you know. I am an agent too and have answered questions on here for ten years. The best strategy as an agent is to answer a lot of questions and let people follow up with you. Give good advice on your area and just never say DM me or reach out to me, etc. It's great that you are open and asking. This is what will make it so much better here.

[Mohammed Rahman]

I don't really care to be frank, whenever I see a post I can provide input on I interact with it. 

If I don't see myself providing/deriving value from it, I leave it alone. 

Folks are just trying to drum up business, some do it well, other's aren't as sophisticated about it. Most folks on BP, I've noticed, are savvy enough to know when someone is doing a "soft-sell" blatantly (i.e reverse trolling, to use your term). 

[Cameron Green]

Lol people playing the game! I wish we could have more free flowing discussions somehow on these in real time going over a property or finding fellow investors!

[Jonathan Greene]

The responses have been really helpful here. The overwhelming answer is that the reverse trolling is, at worst, annoying and a suck on the forums, and at best, tedious and ignorable.

I also think most people here said what I think, we all should know how obvious it is, but the truth is, from being in the forums for more than ten years, new people are susceptible to anything. They really do not know how to decipher what is a question posed to get business, then they end up with an inbox full of DMs.

A lot of us have started using the "nice" call-out method, which involves responding something like, "I see you are an agent in Dayton asking a question about housing in Dayton. That seems like you are looking for business and not adding much value. You will do much better if you answer questions about Dayton in the forums without posting a question you know the answer to." They usually hate this though.

[Don Konipol]

After spending all day dodging junk mail, junk e-mail, junk texts, and junk phone calls I have very little energy left for junk BP posts!

[Jonathan Klemm]

I don't think it's the end of the world @Jonathan Greene...if it still helps someone learn something new there is at least some positive.

In my opinion, those trolls will get seen for who they really are in the long run, so it is just a short-term play...that I don't know is worth worrying much about.

I'd rather someone say, "Here is a question we often get asked as a general contractor: how much does it cost to dig down a Chicago basement?  

We found xyz.....does anyone else have any thoughts or opinions on this"

[Ned Carey]

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

[Jaycee Greene]

In politics, it's called "oppo research" ;-)

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

I am with you completely. I was kind of just checking my level. I don't think it's hard not to self-promote. When you do it, you show your cards, but new people don't knew because they are thirsting for help and will take it from literally anybody.

[Scott Trench]

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

[Mike Dymski]

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

It's pretty hard to set a line because the same people will just adjust the text to avoid the line, but still be reverse trolling. I do think it can get a little more clear, but a lot will be on moderators and then you guys above getting complaints about the moderators doing their jobs.

The biggest thing I have seen recently is people who pay for pro thinking that it means they can reverse troll anywhere in any forum. That has been a big thing.

The easy way I think to say it is if you are a lender, agent, insurance person, you shouldn't be starting forum posts to elicit feedback in your industry or genre. Like an agent asking how do you feel about the market in their town is reverse trolling, but an agent talking about the flip they are doing in the market for themselves, not a client, is not reverse trolling. Something like that, but it's tough.

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

Quote from @Scott Trench:

Quote from @Ned Carey:

 @Jonathan Greene  @Scott Trench  I am 100% againsts it. It this was my forum I would remove them without question. On the second similar post I would ban them. 

It is harder to find good information if the forum is cluttered with low value information. 

 I completely agree with removing Reverse Trolling in a clearly defined form. 

I think that the team and moderators will all be aligned with this philosophically. 

But, I think in practice, "reverse trolling" remains ill-defined and a blurred line will rapidly begin developing. 

Any ideas on how to crystallize this? 

Any suggestions on what to update/populate in our "rules" section to help us make this clearer? 

Meritocracy...require a minimum vote ratio to post.  Quality over quantity.

 I vote for gladiator games; last man/woman standing gets to post 🤣