Applicant doesn't want to provide social security number

[Jasmine H.]

I have two applicants (they are friends) who want to move in with a nanny for one of the applicant's child. They love the place and we like them and think it will be a good fit. The issue is they don't feel comfortable with providing their social security numbers and we don't feel comfortable accepting an applicant without one. We processed their application through Corelogic but the company hid the ssn. The tenanta said if we can agree on liability in case of identity theft they would be ok with providing their ssns.

Everything seemed to be moving along just fine until the ssn issue. With everything going on in this day and age with rules and regulations, I don't feel comfortable proceeding. Is a social security number necessary and can anyone provide liability language or direct me to a website that has this type of language?

[Bjorn Ahlblad]

We always insist on SSN and a picture ID. No tickee no washee. They can buy ID theft insurance if they have fears. I would not give them assurances over something I can't control.

[John Underwood]

Tell them it is your standard policy and that everyone that rents from you provide this information. Tell them how you secure their info.

If they still say no tell them that they can't from you.

[Wesley W.]

Tell them if they are uncomfortable giving you their SSN, imagine how uncomfortable it makes YOU feel handing over stewardship to a 6-figure asset to such a party.  This is part of life and the world they live in.  If they object, they can buy their own property (and wait for their lender to require same).

Frankly, in my opinion, this is a peek into the type of tenant they will be - challenging you at every turn.  I would pass on these folks.  A tiger doesn't change its stripes.  Not worth it.

[Kyle J.]

@Jasmine H.  I'd tell them, while you understand their concerns, at the same time you don't feel comfortable turning over an asset of yours that's likely worth hundreds of thousands of dollars without them being willing to provide their SSN.  

They likely provide it to the cell phone companies in exchange for an asset worth less than a thousand dollars.  They likely provide it to credit card companies in exchange for a piece of plastic.  And in both of those instances, they actually have NO idea who is really looking at their SSN (or how many people).  At least with you, they know exactly who you are and where to find you.

Ultimately though, if they're not willing to budge and you're not willing to budge, you win.  It's your house, and you shouldn't compromise on your own rules/requirements.  

[Johann Jells]

Originally posted by @Wesley W.:

Frankly, in my opinion, this is a peek into the type of tenant they will be - challenging you at every turn.  I would pass on these folks.  A tiger doesn't change its stripes.  Not worth it.

Wisdom here. Why take someone who makes themselves a PITA from the get go?

[Matt Ziegler]

Screening is one of the most important steps to placing good residents. We take this very seriously, if these folks can’t/won’t give you the information you require, move on. It is too hard to remove residents once they occupy your property. Set up clear legal and fair application/rental criteria and stick to it!

[Russell Brazil]

No SSN, no rental. Simple as that. Hard pass, onto the next applicant. 

[Whitney Hutten]

@Jasmine H. Just make it a business policy of yours to always have SSN, inform them of such, and let it go. What happens if they stiff you on rent? That SSN is critical in most states to proceed with a judgement. If you start bending your rules now to accommodate, you will be doing that the entire lease. You can be compassionate with them without getting emotionally involved. Just say it's your policy. 

[Jasmine H.]

Thank you all, very insightful information here.  I will let the tenants know about this but they asked me to provide liability language should they give out their ssn.  Does anyone know what kind of language they are referring to?

[Quincy Lockett]

@Jasmine Hieke

For me, they are no longer an applicant. You are extending them thousands of dollars of credit.

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @Jasmine H.:

Thank you all, very insightful information here.  I will let the tenants know about this but they asked me to provide liability language should they give out their ssn.  Does anyone know what kind of language they are referring to?

 Yes, what they are asking you to do is claim responsibility in the event they have any identity theft issues. Don't do it. There are identity theft services out there that they can subscribe to that will monitor use of their SS/credit, and if they are that nervous about it they should take advantage of such services. As already mentioned, they provide their SSN for lots of things less valuable than your house. If they got a Kohl's department store card they provided their SSN.

I would move on to someone else. You really don't want someone that fights you on the front end to be your tenant. This is a big red warning flag waving in front of your eyes and you will likely regret ignoring it if you go forward. 

[Joe Splitrock]

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

[Russell Brazil]

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

 The use is for collection purposes. If you evict and get a judgement, you cant report them to the credit bureua without a social security number. Essentially the debt becomes unrecoverable. Ive personally made this mistake, which is why I always get the SSN now. 

[Tracy Streich]

@Jasmine H.   They have to have the SS # for you to do background check.   Require it and don't give in. 

[Jasmine H.]

Hi Joe,

Yes CoreLogic required the tenants to enter their social security number.  They did and they have good credit. 

[JD Martin]

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

 That's OK, we can disagree and still be friends 😁

Disclosure: I never bother getting the full SSN any more, only the last 4, for the following reasons:

1. I use a third-party credit/background check service, so they have to put it in there.

2. I don't want to store it anywhere or have any of my stuff hacked where it can be retrieved by ne'er do-wells.

3. I don't ever plan on pursuing a judgement against a tenant; I'm in a quick-evict state so I'm unlikely to suffer large loss of owed rent, and any malicious/negligent damage done beyond the deposit would be into the area covered by my insurance and I would leave it to them to track down and get a judgement against the former tenant.

So actually we are in agreement 😉 I really just meant for the OP's business purposes. I could understand collecting a full SSN in an area where someone can squat on your property for 3-12 months or more; that's a lot of potential rent that would be worth going after a judgement. Where I am you can have someone out in a few weeks.

[Joe Splitrock]

Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

 The use is for collection purposes. If you evict and get a judgement, you cant report them to the credit bureua without a social security number. Essentially the debt becomes unrecoverable. Ive personally made this mistake, which is why I always get the SSN now. 

 When I have looked into reporting a tenant to a credit bureau, as a small landlord, it seems impossible. When a tenant has owed me money, I went to court and got a judgement without SSN. These judgements used to be picked up by the credit bureau, without the need to report them. Doing some searching today, it appears judgments are no longer shown on credit reports since 2017. They do show up on Checkr background checks, as does the last four digits of the social security number.

I have never passed an account on to collections, but it seems that is the best way for a small landlord to get the debt on their credit report. I don't think collection agencies require SSN to report debt, just name and address. That being said, having the SSN can only help. I guess the answer for a tenant asking why you need the number is to tell them it is used to repot to collection agencies and collect debt.

I honestly have not dealt with collecting money in years, not since lifting my screening standards. If you don't mind sharing, what is your collection process? Are you using a debt collection agency?

[Jasmine H.]

CoreLogic does allow me to see the last 4 digits.  Thank you all, I think I can sleep at night now.

[Joe Splitrock]

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

 That's OK, we can disagree and still be friends 😁

Disclosure: I never bother getting the full SSN any more, only the last 4, for the following reasons:

1. I use a third-party credit/background check service, so they have to put it in there.

2. I don't want to store it anywhere or have any of my stuff hacked where it can be retrieved by ne'er do-wells.

3. I don't ever plan on pursuing a judgement against a tenant; I'm in a quick-evict state so I'm unlikely to suffer large loss of owed rent, and any malicious/negligent damage done beyond the deposit would be into the area covered by my insurance and I would leave it to them to track down and get a judgement against the former tenant.

So actually we are in agreement 😉 I really just meant for the OP's business purposes. I could understand collecting a full SSN in an area where someone can squat on your property for 3-12 months or more; that's a lot of potential rent that would be worth going after a judgement. Where I am you can have someone out in a few weeks.

 We are in the same boat. The credit/background check runs it. Checkr background check provides me the last four digits. Our evictions are fast and I would get a judgement. If it was worth while I would probably take it to collections and they could pursue with name, address and last four digits. That being said, full number would only help the collection agency. I did just deny someone who couldn't get his SSN accepted through Equifax. He said they couldn't validate his identity on his SSN. I told him to call them and work it out, because there is nothing I could do. In my experience when people have trouble "validating", they are usually trying to snow a landlord into accepting them without a credit report. 

[Joe Splitrock]

Originally posted by @Jasmine H.:

Hi Joe,

Yes CoreLogic required the tenants to enter their social security number.  They did and they have good credit. 

 If you want the SSN for collection purposes, I would tell the applicant they will be approved after they provide SSN. Explain you need the SSN in the event they default so you can file on their credit report and push to collections. Assuming they pay on time, the number stays locked in a file cabinet forever.

[Russell Brazil]

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

@Jasmine H. you are required by law to disclose whether giving their social security number is mandatory or voluntary. You are also required to disclose how their social security number will be used. From what I understand, they already provided their number for the purposes of credit screening and identify verification. What other further purpose do you have in collecting this information?

Years ago we were collecting social security numbers, but holding such personal data only opens up a landlord to liability. Applicants now provide their SSN directly to the credit bureau and share their credit report with us. You may have gotten notifications from companies about data breaches. These breaches open companies to major legal problems. If you are collecting a SSN, you better be properly securing it. Keeping it in a file drawer isn't going to cut it. My feeling is never having the number, removes my liability. 

I realize I am disagreeing with some of my trusted friends on here like @JD Martin and @Russell Brazil about the necessity of collecting this information. Ultimately I only need the number for screening purposes. As long as they provide it to the screening company and they verify it is valid, I don't understand what other use there is?

Bottom line is they DID provide their SSN to the screening company. That should allow a credit report to be pulled. Why do you need the number besides requiring it? How would you use it in the future?

 The use is for collection purposes. If you evict and get a judgement, you cant report them to the credit bureua without a social security number. Essentially the debt becomes unrecoverable. Ive personally made this mistake, which is why I always get the SSN now. 

 When I have looked into reporting a tenant to a credit bureau, as a small landlord, it seems impossible. When a tenant has owed me money, I went to court and got a judgement without SSN. These judgements used to be picked up by the credit bureau, without the need to report them. Doing some searching today, it appears judgments are no longer shown on credit reports since 2017. They do show up on Checkr background checks, as does the last four digits of the social security number.

I have never passed an account on to collections, but it seems that is the best way for a small landlord to get the debt on their credit report. I don't think collection agencies require SSN to report debt, just name and address. That being said, having the SSN can only help. I guess the answer for a tenant asking why you need the number is to tell them it is used to repot to collection agencies and collect debt.

I honestly have not dealt with collecting money in years, not since lifting my screening standards. If you don't mind sharing, what is your collection process? Are you using a debt collection agency?

I typically send it to a collection agency. The last one I used keeps 50% of what they recover and 50% back to you. Ive had more luck with this type, as opposed to the ones who charge you a flat fee and you get whatever they collect. The one with a split I find works better at actually getting more money in your pocket, since they pursue the tenant more. I had one two years ago, they owed $4 or $5k, which was all collected and I got half back. The flat fee ones always seem to never recover anything.

Evictions/collections are generally rare for me these days, but were more common for me a decade ago when I had lower quality assets.

[Jonathan G.]

@Jasmine Hieke

You are assuming the SSN they provided to Core is their actual SSN’s. I would be concerned these are potentially professional tenants and would move in to the next applicant. Have your screening criteria and stick to it.

[Jasmine H.]

@Jonathan G. Wouldn't it raise a flag if their name is different from the ssn? I have a copy of their driver's license and the photo and name match.

[Jerry Lucker]

@Jasmine Hieke

No ssn no rent. K.I.S.S.

[Jonathan G.]

@Jasmine Hieke

It just depends on your risk tolerance, how much chance you want to tak e, and how many red flags your willing to ignore. What is your particular motivation to rent to this particular applicant?Personally, one red flag is enough for me to move onto the next applicant. Also, are you screening each adult that’s going to be living in the home?