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What to do about tenant noise complaints?
Dealing with tenant complaints is my least favorite part of the property management gig, and this one is stumping me. Also, what vendor do I call to handle the noise complaints?!?
In a quiet fourplex building, upstairs lady is complaining about the noise being made by downstairs single lady. The noises are things like slamming closet doors and walking around (and things that sound like normal living to me), but they are happening in the middle of the night and keeping upstairs lady awake. I've been getting upset emails in the middle of the night for the past two months.
I talked to downstairs lady who is aware of the complaints and mentioned that she listens to her ipad loudly in the evening, but that's it. I guess I need to talk to her more and what - tell her she can't be awake in the middle of the night? Other people in the building don't hear anything. Do I need to go over there in the middle of the night to listen for noise to understand the issue? I'm at a loss on how to diagnose the issue and handle the people.
Both tenants are on month to month tenancy, so asking someone to leave is always on option, but they both pay their rent on time and cause no other issues. Any suggestions on how to handle these mysterious middle of the night noises?
I would not get involved in tenant disputes to that degree. You have already mentioned it to the bottom tenant, so that's all you can really do. If the upstairs tenant wants to move out, then that's her choice.
Most rental agreements have a “quiet time” usually 10pm- 8am. I would inform loud tenant that they are getting complaints for x,y,and z and that they need to quiet it down. Be specific about what the sounds are -slamming doors, etc. then give it a week or two and check back in with the person who complained.
If she still is being woken up, i would give the tenant above a more serious talking to and then if they dont quiet down i would write them up per your lease and local laws with how the remedy it (be quiet in the middle of the night)
This should be the end of it.
Also, thinking more on this - if the closet door bangs shut, put something on it to dampen the sound -maybe weather stripping or some kind of bumper/buffer. As for the walking around, I assume it is non carpeted floors so suggest tenant toss down some carpet runners etc to help dampen sound, get softer soled slippers, etc. Always a way to work thru these things!
Upstairs tenant needs to realize that when you live in a situation like a fourplex, it's like living in an anthill. Her complaints of "noise" because someone walks around and "slams" (I'm going to guess closes) closet doors and thus she wants you to do something about this is unrealistic.
Since others in the building have not complained, the issue may be with the upstairs neighbor. This is a little strange because, typically, a complaint would be from a DOWNSTAIRS neighbor complaining about noise from someone upstairs.
Explain to the upstairs neighbor you've already discussed this with the downstairs person and she is aware of this. And frankly, turn your computer or phone off at night. There is no reason for you to get upset emails in the middle of the night.
If the upstairs person remains unhappy she always has the option of finding another place to rent. She may be happier in a SFH. But the decision to move should be HERS, not yours.
Gail
#5 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- Erie, pa
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#5 General Landlording & Rental Properties Contributor
- Rental Property Investor
- Erie, pa
Hi, @Julie Marquez, if the downstairs tenant is just "normal living," then I think the tenant upstairs should go pound sand. Probably not how you want to handle it, though. Here are some thoughts:
- Is the upstairs tenant a pain with other things? If she's an otherwise good tenant, it's probably worth taking her complaints seriously and not risk losing her.
- Is the upstairs apartment carpeted? Many properties require upstairs apartments to be at least 80% carpeted for sound mitigation.
- If you determine this truly is an issue, I was recently engaged in another thread where we discussed potential solutions. They both involve varying degrees of construction in the downstairs unit.
So I am going to add my 2 cents worth. I agree with what Mary said basically. Tenants are entitled to quiet enjoyment of their home which they pay to use. I suggest that you check your lease to be sure there is language that states quiet hours and if it is not there add an addendum to all leases and have all tenants sign. In that addendum you can be specific about exact kinds of noise that are nuisance noises. Obviously loud music, tv or alexa presentations should be included. Stomping around in shoes and closing doors loudly in the middle of the night should be included..you get the picture. Even if you do have a clause in your lease about nighttime noise you may want to write a clarifying addendum anyway.
I had tenants who worked the graveyard shift and slept during the day. That is a tough one to solve but we did it. I had side by side duplex units not up and down so it was just a matter of sending letters to all tenants who were close by. They were accommodating because it was a community of workers who understood the issue. That is why I am going to suggest that you write a letter, rather than having a conversation, to the downstairs lady asking her to understand the needs of the neighbor upstairs. Then you have done your job. If anyone wants to move it is up to them to decide. You can also copy the upstairs lady if you think it would help. Sometimes tenants just want to know that they have been heard. Good luck.
You have spoken to both tenants.... the one tenant is making what sounds like reasonable "noise" associated with normal life activity. You can do some damping on the door slams etc, but otherwise I wouldn't go beyond that.....
This isn't loud music or parties or kids running around at unreasonable times...these are normal noises that life makes....one tenant just doesn't like them at a certain time. Get over it.....
Either one is welcome to move out...stay out of it....you wont solve this drama. The tenants need to work it out, learn to live with it or move out.
It's odd that it's the upstairs tenant complaining. Generally downstairs tenants have way more noise complaints than upstairs tenants. Especially if the complaining tenant is not usually a complainer, I would probably install some carpet tiles if the space is not carpeted, let the downstairs tenant know you are still getting complaints, and also suggest that the upstairs tenant to try a white noise or brown noise machine or earplugs.
I had a tenant who always complained about noise upstairs. I found out that she had also complained about the previous tenant to the previous owner. She was a very heavy smoker and I wanted the building smoke-free, so I got her to move anyway. Over several weeks I was at the apartment often, working on it, and never heard the tenant upstairs at all. In fact, I was worried about them, so did a smoke alarm inspection to make sure everybody was okay. The new tenant never complained about noise either. I think the first tenant was crazy. Maybe it's the same for your tenant.
@Jeff Brower I definitely don't want to get any more involved, and I agree, she can move!
@Mary M. Thanks for the feedback and good idea about the slamming doors, I'm willing to do little things like that to help remedy the issues!
@Julie Marquez hi Julie. I have had issues like that in the past with a triplex. I let them know that there are landlord issues and neighbor issues. If they want me to take noise as a landlord issue, then I need to see that they have had the neighbor cited because it was too loud at whatever times the city requires it to be quieter. Then I will give them a 3-day and begin eviction. Of course, I doubt the sounds that keep the other tenant awake are loud enough to get any citation. As mentioned, if there is a way to quiet down the other unit, then it may be worth doing. Otherwise, neighbor issues are not landlord issued.
@Bryan O. if your leases state there is a quiet time, then yes it is your issue as a landlord. Tenants have the right to peaceful enjoyment of their dwelling.
This is different than city noise ordinances. They have specific noise levels which would be far louder than walking on hardwood floors in the middle of the night with clogs on.
@Mary M. I don't use "quiet times" in my leases. I let everyone know that they are adults and need to be courteous to each other like regular humans living in any home. I am the landlord, not the go-between for neighborly issues.
@Bryan O. a simple google search found this
“Landlords must maintain the Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment which states that the tenant is entitled to their own peace and quiet within their home. ... They are not allowed to interfere with the tenant's daily life and comfort. The units must be kept up in accordance to the state and housing codes for Colorado.”
https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/landlord-tenant-laws/colorado/
Lots and lots of other sources that state similar so your tenants have the right of quiet enjoyment wheter your lease states it or not. Therefore it is your responsibility to ensure tenants get this right of quiet enjoyment
@Mary M. define unreasonable. A person walking, or doing standard "life" activities when the other does not like it is not my issue. Unreasonable to me is something that violates ordinances. Where do you stop? One neighbor goes to work at 3AM, so starts their car in the morning, or showers, or uses their closet to get clothes to get dressed, etc. The other wakes up and doesn't like the noise. Which one's right of quiet enjoyment do you, the landlord, decide is allowed? More importantly, which of their right of quiet enjoyment do you decide gets infringed on?
We both agree that tenants have the right of quiet enjoyment, but the question raised is, "What defines unreasonable interference?"
Well i am sure the lawyers here can chime in, but it *is* your problem and should be mitigated by the landlord if needed. Most people are reasonable. Someone getting ready for work at 2 am does not necessarily upset others if they arent walking on non carpeted floors with loud soles, slamming doors, etc.
I honestly dont understand why a landlord would want to abdigate responsibility here. Usually these issues are simple to resolve, ask the noisey tenant to move tv off shared wall, put runners down, grease hingers etc etc
But hey, I come from the business world where clients matter.
@Mary M. if your posts are anything like the way you deal with your clients, then I think there is room for improvement. I care about my tenants, but I also know what my job is. I had a tenant complain that the neighbor closing the gate, or turning on their porch light, or walking past the neighbor's wall to get to their car at 4AM to go to work made her dog bark, which wakes her up. Who is at fault? Who is supposed to be "right"? How would you resolve the issue since doing anything will place the rights of one above those of the other?
Rather than be snippy and childish, why not engage in the conversation? I am still unsure what your definition of unreasonable is, and that is pretty much what the entire discussion revolves around. I use a defined, measurable, enforceable metric (noise ordinances). What do you use?
#5 Wholesaling Contributor
"she listens to her ipad loudly in the evening. . ."
----------------------------
Define "evening."
Define "loudly."
There is such a thing as the overly sensitive person, and that person is not entitled to protection. If a quiet hours clause is needed in your rent agreements, add one. And I have one question: Did the upstairs tenant talk to the downstairs tenant before complaining to you?
@Bryan O. not sure where you get snippy and childish? I am giving my honest opinion based on managing my MF over several years.
I listen to any complaint and respond accordingly. It may be i listen and say “yeah that is apartment living” or I might contact the noise creator and see if the issue can be mitigated. Sometimes it is simply letting them know there is an issue. First time renters may not understand how easy sound travels.
I always listen and then decide what action i will take (if any)
fwiw i consider rentals as a service company and since my units are higher end, the living expereince is really important to folks that live here.
Originally posted by @Julie Marquez:
Dealing with tenant complaints is my least favorite part of the property management gig, and this one is stumping me. Also, what vendor do I call to handle the noise complaints?!?
In a quiet fourplex building, upstairs lady is complaining about the noise being made by downstairs single lady. The noises are things like slamming closet doors and walking around (and things that sound like normal living to me), but they are happening in the middle of the night and keeping upstairs lady awake. I've been getting upset emails in the middle of the night for the past two months.
I talked to downstairs lady who is aware of the complaints and mentioned that she listens to her ipad loudly in the evening, but that's it. I guess I need to talk to her more and what - tell her she can't be awake in the middle of the night? Other people in the building don't hear anything. Do I need to go over there in the middle of the night to listen for noise to understand the issue? I'm at a loss on how to diagnose the issue and handle the people.
Both tenants are on month to month tenancy, so asking someone to leave is always on option, but they both pay their rent on time and cause no other issues. Any suggestions on how to handle these mysterious middle of the night noises?
I wouldn't get personally involved too much. The more you get involved, the worse it gets for you.
I would tell the tenant that is complaining that you have talked to the other lady, and made her aware of the issue, if there is more nuisance, you should call the police. You should also let the troublemaker know that if the noise continues, then other tenants might call the police, and you can't do anything about it...
Stay as far away from it as you can.. Low income tenants tend to be drama queens.. Ain't no one got no time for dat !
@Gail K. Thanks for the response, I just wanted to make sure I was doing the appropriate amount of involvement for the situation. @Dennis M. but definitely don't want to be involved in their drama
@Jaysen Medhurst Thanks for all the info and suggestions! I think the lady might be crazy, but she causes no bother else wise. The carpet is due for a replacement with a thick pad. I was thinking I need to make myself harder to get a hold of so I don't get frequent petty complaints.