Clayton Morris seeks over $7 Million from James Wise for Film

[James Wise]

Clayton Morris is seeking $7,176,000 in damages from me & HoltonWiseTV for releasing the documentary about the Real Estate scam allegations involving him, Morris Invest & recently indicted Bert Whalen.

[Michael King]

@James Wise Wow. No good deed goes unpunished, now you have the burden and cost of this lawsuit. Good luck.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:

I'm not seeing how the boy doesn't run out of money soon with this kind of monkey business. What's he paying to file these lawsuits? How much does he have left in the bank? I really can't imagine the Morrises as European champions of frugality.

 At this point in the case costs are still pretty low. It's when you've got to start paying the attorney's to fly into Cleveland that it gets pricey. I think he's still holding onto the hope that he can scare me into agreeing to pull down the video.

You're not scared James? You should claim to be scared and sue for mental distress. What's that worth? $1,000 per day? 

[Jim K.]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:

I'm not seeing how the boy doesn't run out of money soon with this kind of monkey business. What's he paying to file these lawsuits? How much does he have left in the bank? I really can't imagine the Morrises as European champions of frugality.

 At this point in the case costs are still pretty low. It's when you've got to start paying the attorney's to fly into Cleveland that it gets pricey. I think he's still holding onto the hope that he can scare me into agreeing to pull down the video.

God, I feel sorry for his kids. I feel so damned sorry for them once I get past what a s**tbird this guy is, how he makes all the rest of us look, what he did to his investors. How do you do this to your children? Like the money's going to help, with this for your upbringing?

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:

I'm not seeing how the boy doesn't run out of money soon with this kind of monkey business. What's he paying to file these lawsuits? How much does he have left in the bank? I really can't imagine the Morrises as European champions of frugality.

 At this point in the case costs are still pretty low. It's when you've got to start paying the attorney's to fly into Cleveland that it gets pricey. I think he's still holding onto the hope that he can scare me into agreeing to pull down the video.

You're not scared James? You should claim to be scared and sue for mental distress. What's that worth? $1,000 per day? 

 Apparently that's the going rate.....This guy man.............Whoever is on Twitter needs to tweet this B/S SLAPP lawsuit to any reporter they know. 

[Kai Ponte]

@James Wise this is amazing. Ive been listening to Morris' podcast for a few weeks now trying to glean information on getting started as well as tips. I did notice a Tony Robbins-like push for sales but figured the guy was harmless. I've changed my mind.

To the others who have mentioned that speaking engagement fees are where it is at, you are partially right. Many of these people make more in podcasts / events / youtube than in RE. I guess it is all what you want to focus on.

[Joel Fine]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

$450k for mental distress? Life sounds hard on those mean beaches of Portugal. 

 How amazing would it be if I somehow lost this lawsuit but instead of paying the $7 Million, I just moved to Portugal?

I hear Clayton Morris is selling some high yield turnkey properties on the Iberian Coast. They need some work now but he's lined up an outfit to do the rehab.

[Victor S.]

remember all those "never give up" quotes i've posted? apparently Clayton took them to heart...

[Anthony Rosa]

@James Wise - You and your attorneys know what you have to do! I wonder if he's suing the investigating DA & the newspapers too. You got this Jimmy!

Hahaha, on last page he has a Compromise Offer...Sounds like the game-show The price Is Right. I want this but will settle for that if The Price is Right.  

Geez, this guy makes big bucks hand over fist, endorsements too.  

How many people that lost money has come forward? 

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Victor S.:

remember all those "never give up" quotes i've posted? apparently Clayton took them to heart...

 Those were rather motivational. Perhaps you can post them again as they are always a good time.

[Jerry W.]

@James Wise, obviously you need an attorney from the state where this is filed.  However you I have a few thoughts on this.  First see if you can come up with a countersuit.  I am sure there should be a few places.  Next see if you can dig a bunch of folks who are suing him to file a Lis pendens on any possible damages in the suit to make it clear he will never see a dime.  then set in and get ready for depositions of him.  Be ready to have have him have to answer the questions of every person he helped dupe.  Make him answer questions about how he was involved in every deal of every person who got duped.  make him show every penny he has made in the last 3 years and the source of it.  that will really help the folks who he duped go after him.  make him show every person and every document that shows anyone would pay him money.  Bring those people in and ask every reason they cancelled his appearance.  Ask each potential forum if they would pay for him to speak knowing the ongoing investigation.  Make him disclose every single paper he signed in the last 3 years dealing with the business and allegations.  these are just some thoughts off the top of my head.  Keep in mind that truth is an absolute defense.  It really doesn't matter how bad the video makes him look as long as it contains the truth, even speculation is allowed in reason.  While deposing him have people he cheated come into the room.  Ask him to see if he identifies them.  Have written statements from them about how he helped cheat them for him to admit or deny.  Make him face 1,000 people he cheated, how they lost their life savings, etc.  Let him look into the eyes of those he destroyed financially and see the despair and hatred he caused.

In any event bud good luck.  We have bad apples in our business and I am grateful to those who point them out to save us from potentially costly mistakes.  People should be held accountable for their actions good or bad.  Make him personally appear for court hearings and depositions and be sure to have lots of folks he cheated be present to cheer him on.

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

It's interesting to make a documentary about someone scamming when your business model is literally bait and switch. 

I reached out about some properties you have advertised everywhere as "for sale" but was told I can't buy them yet because "the videos aren't ready" to be sent out to your social media and newsletter so you can create bidding wars and drive up the price. 

I told her I want to pay the price you have literally have listed as "FOR SALE" and she told me in short form no sorry you have to be a part of the bidding war.

What business behaviour do you consider a scam?

Well...I am going to guess you are brand new to this business so I am going to go ahead and give you a pass on just how ignorant your accusation is and walk you through a few points so that in the future you do not offend any other brokers or sellers who may not be willing to give you a pass.

1. Pre-Marketing is an industry norm. It's not even limited to real estate sales actually. All sales involve pre-marketing. Think of the Cyber Truck from Tesla or every new version of the I phone. Most all products are marketed before their initial launch. This is marketing sales and marketing 101. Movies are the same way. They are advertised long before the date that you can go watch them in the theater or on Netflix.

 2. What do you think the job of a real estate broker is, if it's not to get their seller's the best deal for their properties? Do you think I became the number 1 seller of rental property in Cleveland, Ohio because I do anything other than market my seller's properties to the best of my ability and get them the best possible price? As you navigate through real estate investing it's important for you to know who you are speaking to and what exactly their job is. Only when you know this, will you be able to begin to judge if they are doing their job well or not.

3. You asked me "what business behavior do you consider a scam?" Are you familiar with this film and all of the coverage that preceded it? If not you should go through all of that and come back here to explain why you think anything I described above is remotely similar to the coverage of this situation.

 You don't need to guess because I already messaged you beforehand and talked to you! As you know. 

The difference between Tesla and Apple is that they have a set price they market. When it's available you pay said price and receive the goods. They aren't taking peoples name, phone number, email address, etc and then throwing the offer up as a "may the best bid win" type of deal. 

In my opinion if you have something advertised as "for sale" and you're offered the price you're asking, you sell it. The same way you walk into Apple, pay $999 for an iPhone and walk out with an iPhone. You don't go to the store for them to gather everyone in a circle and say "highest price wins". 

I have no doubts you are good at what you do, the methodology is just lacking in transparency. Something that's not for sale YET should not be listed as for sale. That's a pre-sale. Just like Tesla and Apple (your own examples) do. And you definitely shouldn't be collecting personal information from people without making that clear. 

To your third point, I didn't say anything you do is scammy. It was a question. 

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Jerry W.:

@James Wise, obviously you need an attorney from the state where this is filed.  However you I have a few thoughts on this.  First see if you can come up with a countersuit.  I am sure there should be a few places.  Next see if you can dig a bunch of folks who are suing him to file a Lis pendens on any possible damages in the suit to make it clear he will never see a dime.  then set in and get ready for depositions of him.  Be ready to have have him have to answer the questions of every person he helped dupe.  Make him answer questions about how he was involved in every deal of every person who got duped.  make him show every penny he has made in the last 3 years and the source of it.  that will really help the folks who he duped go after him.  make him show every person and every document that shows anyone would pay him money.  Bring those people in and ask every reason they cancelled his appearance.  Ask each potential forum if they would pay for him to speak knowing the ongoing investigation.  Make him disclose every single paper he signed in the last 3 years dealing with the business and allegations.  these are just some thoughts off the top of my head.  Keep in mind that truth is an absolute defense.  It really doesn't matter how bad the video makes him look as long as it contains the truth, even speculation is allowed in reason.  While deposing him have people he cheated come into the room.  Ask him to see if he identifies them.  Have written statements from them about how he helped cheat them for him to admit or deny.  Make him face 1,000 people he cheated, how they lost their life savings, etc.  Let him look into the eyes of those he destroyed financially and see the despair and hatred he caused.

In any event bud good luck.  We have bad apples in our business and I am grateful to those who point them out to save us from potentially costly mistakes.  People should be held accountable for their actions good or bad.  Make him personally appear for court hearings and depositions and be sure to have lots of folks he cheated be present to cheer him on.

Yea we've already got legal working on this of course. Lawsuit was filed back in October, just got the demand letter yesterday. These are some sharp ideas. I will make sure our legal team see's these suggestions. 

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Joel Fine:

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Steve K.:

$450k for mental distress? Life sounds hard on those mean beaches of Portugal. 

 How amazing would it be if I somehow lost this lawsuit but instead of paying the $7 Million, I just moved to Portugal?

I hear Clayton Morris is selling some high yield turnkey properties on the Iberian Coast. They need some work now but he's lined up an outfit to do the rehab.

 Sometimes I just wish Clayton and I could go back to the time when he told me if we'd met under different circumstances we'd be getting a beer at a Philly's game......................aw-shucks :(

[Bryan Devitt]

@Account Closed have you never seen real estate in hot markets? I have friends that got offers on their house for full asking within hours of listing and turned them down until the end of the weekend. Surprise surprise they got over asking because of a bidding war. I guess they should have walked away from the extra $40k because they were low on what they thought the value was though

[Jonathan Farber]

@James Wise where can we see the documentary?

[Robert McAllister]

The audacity! Point the finger elsewhere to distract from the real fraud.

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Bryan Devitt:

@Account Closed have you never seen real estate in hot markets? I have friends that got offers on their house for full asking within hours of listing and turned them down until the end of the weekend. Surprise surprise they got over asking because of a bidding war. I guess they should have walked away from the extra $40k because they were low on what they thought the value was though

 Well, he canceled or had his account canceled so I guess that's the end of that conversation........Back to Clayton.

[Julie Dillon]

@James Wise

I'm here on Bigger Pockets as a Pro member working on my next purchase (a 4-plex) because I saw a YouTube video 6 months ago from Morris Invest. I didn't buy a turnkey property from his company but watched a bunch of his videos and from that I turned from a homemaker to a Real Estate Investor with properties in 3 states with a solid team of professionals helping me grow my business. I owe much of my current success to the education I got from watching his free videos.

I don't know the full story but I'm not here to pass judgment and I don't know enough to even have an informed opinion...I'm just sharing my personal experience.

God Bless!

[Mary Jay]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

It's interesting to make a documentary about someone scamming when your business model is literally bait and switch. 

I reached out about some properties you have advertised everywhere as "for sale" but was told I can't buy them yet because "the videos aren't ready" to be sent out to your social media and newsletter so you can create bidding wars and drive up the price. 

I told her I want to pay the price you have literally have listed as "FOR SALE" and she told me in short form no sorry you have to be a part of the bidding war.

What business behaviour do you consider a scam?

The above situation that you wrote about does not seem like scam to me, seller has a right to sell however he or she wants to...

Seller can do private showings/sales through a certain group of brokers/friends or demand bidding wars from investors... Sellers choice...

James Wise has a good reputation. Clayton Morris - not so much.

[Mary Jay]

Originally posted by @Jerry W.:

@James Wise, obviously you need an attorney from the state where this is filed.  However you I have a few thoughts on this.  First see if you can come up with a countersuit.  I am sure there should be a few places.  Next see if you can dig a bunch of folks who are suing him to file a Lis pendens on any possible damages in the suit to make it clear he will never see a dime.  then set in and get ready for depositions of him.  Be ready to have have him have to answer the questions of every person he helped dupe.  Make him answer questions about how he was involved in every deal of every person who got duped.  make him show every penny he has made in the last 3 years and the source of it.  that will really help the folks who he duped go after him.  make him show every person and every document that shows anyone would pay him money.  Bring those people in and ask every reason they cancelled his appearance.  Ask each potential forum if they would pay for him to speak knowing the ongoing investigation.  Make him disclose every single paper he signed in the last 3 years dealing with the business and allegations.  these are just some thoughts off the top of my head.  Keep in mind that truth is an absolute defense.  It really doesn't matter how bad the video makes him look as long as it contains the truth, even speculation is allowed in reason.  While deposing him have people he cheated come into the room.  Ask him to see if he identifies them.  Have written statements from them about how he helped cheat them for him to admit or deny.  Make him face 1,000 people he cheated, how they lost their life savings, etc.  Let him look into the eyes of those he destroyed financially and see the despair and hatred he caused.

In any event bud good luck.  We have bad apples in our business and I am grateful to those who point them out to save us from potentially costly mistakes.  People should be held accountable for their actions good or bad.  Make him personally appear for court hearings and depositions and be sure to have lots of folks he cheated be present to cheer him on.

I agree. I think getting those people together and file an additional to your own lawsuit of all the damage that has been done to other people is a good idea. I am sure you can find them on this forum

Consider counter suing him for 10 times more than what he is suing you...

[Jess Kinzel]

Originally posted by @Julie Dillon:

@James Wise

I'm here on Bigger Pockets as a Pro member working on my next purchase (a 4-plex) because I saw a YouTube video 6 months ago from Morris Invest. I didn't buy a turnkey property from his company but watched a bunch of his videos and from that I turned from a homemaker to a Real Estate Investor with properties in 3 states with a solid team of professionals helping me grow my business. I owe much of my current success to the education I got from watching his free videos.

I don't know the full story but I'm not here to pass judgment and I don't know enough to even have an informed opinion...I'm just sharing my personal experience.

God Bless!

 Amazing and inspirational story that you shared!

I don't have a dog in this fight, about the Morris drama/scams, I've recently been reading about it here in BiggerPockets, I just wanted to say that I appreciate your work ethic and building your company!

Congrats on all you've accomplished!

Blessings to you & yours! 

[Matt P.]

@James Wise You should set up a GoFundMe for legal expenses lol. I'd throw in some cash.

[James Wise]

Originally posted by @Matt P.:

@James Wise You should set up a GoFundMe for legal expenses lol. I'd throw in some cash.

@Charlie MacPherson did start one but spreading the word far and wide is all the support I (and the alleged victims) really need. @ some reporters.

[Matt P.]

@James Wise Not the hero we deserve but the hero we need! Keep up the good work brotha.

[Sam Kang]

@James Wise

I watched your videos.

thought he consented.... what a jerk