Starting Out
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback
Updated 6 days ago, 12/09/2024
Investing in Bitcoins
I think it was Warren Buffett that once said he didn't invest in anything he didn't understand. I tend to agree with that philosophy.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Anthony Bertolino:
It's so cringe worthy to read how uninformed many are on this subject.
I have to bow out of this because is heading towards more of an emotional discussion rather than logical.
Best of luck to all.
OOPS!! The IRS Found Out. Imagine That! Why not just buy Gold instead. It's a lot prettier.
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/irs-wins-14-000/...
A cryptocurrency exchange called Coinbase that deals with bitcoin and other digital currencies has been ordered by the IRS to start forking over information about some of its customers.
a U.S. district court ruled that Coinbase needs to supply the personal information of 14,355 of its customers to the IRS as the agency tries to combat tax evasion.
The customers affected by the order conducted Coinbase transactions of more than $20,000 between 2013 and 2015, which includes 8.9 million transactions.
If anyone thinks they will avoid taxes with bitcoin they are mistaken. When converted to US dollars, it is deposited into your bank account. There is no way to seize as bitcoin but I could see they would just force conversions to fix that. Or put you on the hook/fines/prison if you did not pay any taxes owed. The guys who do cash out normally account for huge tax hits.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I think it was Warren Buffett that once said he didn't invest in anything he didn't understand. I tend to agree with that philosophy.
Makes total sense. At the sametime when Amazon was $10 a share, he said he did not understand how it was worth even $10. He is the best but his ability to fully understand some of these newer business 2.0 concepts sort of escapes him maybe a little bit. Rail roads he has got that covered.
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
If Bitcoin hitting $100,000 per coin does not surprise “them”, and if Bitcoin really can hit $100,000 per coin, then Bitcoin today price of $11,000 is very cheap. Maybe I should sell all my assets and buy Bitcoin at $11,000 a piece today. If Bitcoin drop to $10.00 per coin after I buy it at $11,000 per coin. Oh sh*t, I lose everything!...
To me, it is a gamble. And I don't want to gamble on Bitcoin this time. I'm very scared of losing. ;P
The guys fully into this crypto stuff certainly don't think it takes much speculation that prices go up from here. There is a lot of misconceptions still, about what it is, how it is mined and how it could penetrate daily lives even more than the internet did and does. 100k is the low end...Mcafee ( the security software guy) is a coin miner and says that he bets bitcoin hits 1 million by 2020 or he will eat his own private parts. He used another word. You get the picture.
Mcafee is bat sh*t crazy. Crypto currency is completely speculative. Prices are skyrocketing as the media frenzy builds. The question is at what point do people start massively cashing out? Mining operations are ramping up quickly, so the supply is increasing. There is also multiple crypto currencies, which increases supply and guarantees some winners and some losers. Another threat is hackers, which pose a threat to the overall stability. The final wild card is government regulation and how it could affect the investment. It has been largely under the radar. The IRS partially validated it by saying it is taxable, but they also tax illegal earnings. The government resists things they can't control.
Call me old fashioned, but real estate is an income producing physical asset. It covers a basic human need (shelter).
I could be totally wrong, but I am just looking at it from a practical standpoint. Who needs crypto currency, unless you are doing something illegal or speculating on its value increasing?
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I think it was Warren Buffett that once said he didn't invest in anything he didn't understand. I tend to agree with that philosophy.
Makes total sense. At the sametime when Amazon was $10 a share, he said he did not understand how it was worth even $10. He is the best but his ability to fully understand some of these newer business 2.0 concepts sort of escapes him maybe a little bit. Rail roads he has got that covered.
...and restaurants (Dairy Queen), and the Beverage Industry (Coke), and Oil & Gas (Suncor Energy), etc., etc., etc.
The other side of the coin is he also missed the .com bubble burst in the late 80's.
I tend to feel the same way...if you're going to invest, then invest in something you know. If you're going to gamble, then go to Vegas - at least they'll comp you with free drinks.
I once bought Enron when rumors of bankruptcy were surfacing. I knew they had this huge asset in the form of a pipeline so I gambled on it. Price was $1 per share and per my analysis, the pipeline was worth at least that. They sold off the pipeline and I sold at 10 cents per share....sometimes it doesn't work out even if you do understand what's going on :)
Originally posted by @Patrick C.:
Could you have made money getting in early yes. But Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value and there are many new digital currencies coming on the market. I don’t see the appeal IMO.
Some report bitcoin has two values ( intrinsic) storage and exchange. There are hundreds of other competitors spending many billions to enter the crypto sector. The billions being spent has some instrinsic value? This is also part software sort of speak, it gets updated with new features...there is work to it, idk if that labor required is intrinsic too maybe.
#1 Questions About BiggerPockets & Official Site Announcements Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
- 18,862
- Votes |
- 27,793
- Posts
#1 Questions About BiggerPockets & Official Site Announcements Contributor
- Real Estate Broker
- Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH
I don't fully understand what a Bitcoin even is. I never invest in something I don't understand.
Many years ago, I bought and hold the stock Enron until it bankrupt and became zero dollars ($0.00)...
sob...
:(
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
If Bitcoin hitting $100,000 per coin does not surprise “them”, and if Bitcoin really can hit $100,000 per coin, then Bitcoin today price of $11,000 is very cheap. Maybe I should sell all my assets and buy Bitcoin at $11,000 a piece today. If Bitcoin drop to $10.00 per coin after I buy it at $11,000 per coin. Oh sh*t, I lose everything!...
To me, it is a gamble. And I don't want to gamble on Bitcoin this time. I'm very scared of losing. ;P
The guys fully into this crypto stuff certainly don't think it takes much speculation that prices go up from here. There is a lot of misconceptions still, about what it is, how it is mined and how it could penetrate daily lives even more than the internet did and does. 100k is the low end...Mcafee ( the security software guy) is a coin miner and says that he bets bitcoin hits 1 million by 2020 or he will eat his own private parts. He used another word. You get the picture.
Mcafee is bat sh*t crazy. Crypto currency is completely speculative. Prices are skyrocketing as the media frenzy builds. The question is at what point do people start massively cashing out? Mining operations are ramping up quickly, so the supply is increasing. There is also multiple crypto currencies, which increases supply and guarantees some winners and some losers. Another threat is hackers, which pose a threat to the overall stability. The final wild card is government regulation and how it could affect the investment. It has been largely under the radar. The IRS partially validated it by saying it is taxable, but they also tax illegal earnings. The government resists things they can't control.
Call me old fashioned, but real estate is an income producing physical asset. It covers a basic human need (shelter).
I could be totally wrong, but I am just looking at it from a practical standpoint. Who needs crypto currency, unless you are doing something illegal or speculating on its value increasing?
Yeah the dude is out there but maybe that works well for him as he seems to get the vision on new stuff before most. He is not alone though on his take. There are a lot of smart guys like that who agree with him or have even higher hopes. These other big cats are also mostly billionaires and are taking crypto very seriously. Digital gold/currency already sounds crazy as is but maybe they know something regular folks don't.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Many years ago, I bought and hold the stock Enron until it bankrupt and became zero dollars ($0.00)...
sob...
:(
Dang, I see your Enron and raise you a Radio Shack. Although Enron was a legit top to bottom scam eventually with bogus on paper financial statements. The bitcoin appears to be a much different animal as there is no company, no offices, no employees, no address and no central location to hack, distort, manipulate, influence, make false earning reports.
Let’s discuss the pros of using Bitcoin.
Why do I need Bitcoin?
What are the benefits of having a Bitcoin beside “hoping” that someone else will buy it from me at a higher price I paid?
Online have the following 10 reasons to use Bitcoin:
- It is fast.
Pro: It is faster than writing a check to transfer money from a bank to another bank. Usually bank would hold the check for a few days to clear the money.
It takes only 10 minutes for Bitcoin to transfer the money.
My comments:
I can wait. Waiting for a few days or 10 days to clear the check is not a problem to me.
I don’t need Bitcoin to transfer money fast.
2. It’s cheap.
Pro: Credit card transactions are instantaneous too. But your merchant will charge a fee for debit card transactions too.
Bitcoin transaction fee are minimal.
My comments:
My credit card do not charge me any transactions fee.
I don’t need Bitcoin to buy things. I can use my credit cards to buy things.
3. Central government can’t take it away.
Pro: Cyprus in March 2013. The Greek government debt crisis. The central bank want to take back uninsured deposit larger than $100,000 to help recapitalize itself.
Central bank cannot take away money from Bitcoin.
My comments:
Come on. We are in USA. I trust our government. As of today, I believe our government would not take money away from our bank.
Bitcoin store on iCloud may be hacked and it happened two years ago. 6 millions money were hacked and gone.
Bitcoin store in a hard drive offline. If the hard drive is broken. All the money in the hard drive Bitcoin is gone.
I don’t need Bitcoin.
4. There are no chargebacks.
Pro: Once bitcoins have been sent, they are gone. A person who has sent bitcoins cannot try to retrieve them without the recipient’s consent. This makes it difficult to commit the kind of fraud that we often see with credit cards, in which people make a purchase and then contact the credit card company to make a chargeback, effectively reversing the transaction.
My comments:
I'm a consumer. This is not my problem. This is good to me. I have protection from Credit cards company.
I don't need Bitcoin for no chargebacks.
5. People can't steal your payment information from merchants.
Pro: Most online purchases today are made via credit cards. Online forms require you to enter all your secret information (the credit card number, expiry date, and CSV number) into a web form. This is why credit card numbers keep being stolen.
My comments:
If my credit card numbers are stolen, I can call the credit card company and file a dispute, and credit card company will refund it to me. It is not a problem to me.
I don't need Bitcoin.
6. It isn't inflationary.
Pro: The problem with regular fiat currency is that governments can print as much of it as they like, and they frequently do. It causes inflation. Bitcoin was designed to have a maximum number of coins. Only 21 million will ever be created under the original specification. This means that after that, the number of bitcoins won’t grow, so inflation won’t be a problem.
My comments:
But now we are experience a problem of extreme volatile on Bitcoin. The price of Bitcoin goes up and down like a roller coaster. I feel very uncomfortable with it if I hold Bitcoin. The volatile price does not give me peace of mind. To me, looks like it may disappear overnight. I would prefer the inflation rather than the volatile Bitcoin.
I don't need Bitcoin.
7. It's as private as you want it to be.
Pro: People don't know who you are when you use Bitcoin to purchase things.
My comments:
#1: I don't need to be anonymous when I buy things. Only people who need to buy illegal things like drugs or weapons online want to be anonymous.
#2: When Bitcoin hit the very "popular" stage, do you think US govenment will let you stay anonymous forever?
IRS has already locked on the Bitcoin door.
When Bitcoin become more and more popular, US govenment will have regulations to know all the truth identity of the Bitcoin owners, and it cannot be as private as you want it to be anymore.
I don't need Bitcoin to be anonymous.
8. You don't need to trust anyone else.
Pro: In a conventional banking system, you have to trust people to handle your money properly along the way. You have to trust the bank, for example.Because bitcoin is entirely decentralized, you need trust no one when using it. When you send a transaction, it is digitally signed, and secure.
My comments:
If we don't trust the banks, like Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase to handle our money, we may be at an extreme time, like having a world war III etc.
Even Bitcoin on icloud can be hacked and be lost, how can I trust Bitcoin?
I would rather to trust the big banks than risk my Bitcoin being hacked on iCloud and lose all my money.
I don't need Bitcoin.
9. You own it.
Pro: There is no other electronic cash system in which your account isn't owned by someone else. Take PayPal, for example: if the company decides for some reason that your account has been misused, it has the power to freeze all of the assets held in the account, without consulting you. With bitcoin, you own the private key and the corresponding public key that makes up a bitcoin address. No one can take that away from you.
My comments:
I have not had any problems with the big banks so far. This is not a good reason to convince me using Bitcoin.
I don't need Bitcoin.
10. You can create your own money.
Pro: In spite of the amazing advances in home office colour printing technology, most national governments take a fairly dim view of you producing your own money. With bitcoin, however, it is encouraged. You can certainly buy bitcoins on the open market, but you can also mine your own if you have enough computing power.
My comments:
The articles said that 80% of the Bitcoin have been mined already. At the later stage, it is very difficult to mine more Bitcoins. Even so, you need to buy expensive equipments and use a lot of power to mine very little Bitcoin.
Not an easy task for a normal person like you and me. The person who mine Bitcoin need extensive technology knowledge and capital to buy the expensive equipments. This is not a good reason to convince me using Bitcoin.
Conclusion:
I cannot find any good reason to use Bitcoin, or find any good reason to buy Bitcoin except for the hope of somebody else would buy the Bitcoin from me at a higher price I paid.
Bitcoin is not for me. Period.
What is the point of it? It’s alleged features that make it more desirable than cash or gold or eve isk will go away once it’s regulated like a legitimate currency, and/or it’s features are less effectively had than something like gold. And how is it “advancing society” to update the worldwide block chain every time I buy a cup of coffee and a donut?
If you’re worried about your “money” in banks or government turning off your account a la Cyprus, bitcoin doesn’t mitigate that risk either. The government could shut it down tomorrow if they choose.
I highly doubt there’s 100% compliance of every US tax return filer who has a bitcoin account somewhere in the world also filing their FBAR with finCen. Once the account providers have to comply with AML/BSA and KYC, filing CTRs etc, how’s it any different than cash?
Are there any limits to how many crypto currencies can be created? How many were there 1 year ago and how many are there now?
I have some CC bitcoin if someone wants them, Pm me... Chucky Cheese tokens, lol!
There are a million reasons not to mess with bitcoin. There also could be a million more reasons to own bitcoin. I tried to sell a house using bitcoin 4 years ago and had no luck. My guess is now that would have been much easier. Jim Cramer msnbc guy, also said that bitcoin will be 1 mil per coin. Even if he is 90% wrong that is still an amazing 1000% return from today. Either way there is something going on here that might be worth trying to understand.
A big part, I understand so far, is bitcoin seems to be the reserve currency for all the other 1200 coins offerings. IDk if that is good or bad but it must mean something.
Sorry, everyone. I didn't realize I couldn't link to a blog I wrote on the taxation of cryptocurrency. Here's the basics:
1) The IRS wants to tax your worldwide income.
2) In 2014 the IRS wrote that "For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property."
3) Because of this, it receives capital gains treatment.
Since most of you around here understand capital gains, I won't bore you with the details. Suffice it to say, if you have sell cryptocurrency and have a gain (doesn't everyone?) then you need to report it and pay the taxes.
Hope that helps!
I bought a portion of a Bitcoin and a bit more than 1 Ether. Who knows? A grand won't kill me, but if it does turn out to be THE thing of the future, then maybe it will turn out ok.
For those of you who are researching Blockchain/Bitcoin, I’d recommend trying to ignore all the hype and speculation aspect of it and focus on its properties: digital, scarce, and distributed. It’s a brand new technology that hasn’t been done before.
I agree that it is not useful for most people today, but it is still early days. Nobody “needed” the internet when it came out, but the internet enabled things that weren’t possible before.
For example, there is a lending platform launching soon that will allow borrowers to use Bitcoin as collateral for a loan. Bitcoin as collateral is interesting because it is easily divided and liquidated. This fact makes it possible to easily adjust the LTV ratio and protect the lender's investment. It's fascinating when you compare this to using a house as collateral... you can't divide a house and sell fractions of it.
62 millions dollars Bitcoin Nicehash hacked
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coindesk.com/62-million-gone-cryptocurrency-mining-market-nicehash-hacked/amp/
Bitcoin futures launch tonight! Who is ready for the wild ride???
Out of curiousity, anyone pickup any BTC after reading this thread?
I was asking myself the same question. Should I pick up a little bit of Bitcoin?
Then I said to myself, maybe pick up a little bit after the price crash.
Then I asked myself, how low and at what price am I willing to buy the Bitcoin at?
I told myself, maybe when Bitcoin price drop to $1000.
But then I told myself, if Bitcoin price really drop significantly to $1000 a piece, then the time to drop to zero won’t be far away...
Like Enron many years ago, when the stock price dropped to $1.00, it then filed bankruptcy and dropped to zero.
So, nevermind, even Bitcoin drop significantly down to $1000 a piece, I’m not going to gamble on it. (Although I like gambling in Las Vegas). To gamble, I will go back to Venetian Casino, either “DOUBLE IT” or “LOSE IT ALL”.
Good luck, you guys!
I took the plunge and plopped 10k down. Bitcoin and litecoin.
My 10k, 4 days later is now valued at 15k.
Not bad for 4 days. I may sell a note I own and drop it in litecoin. My thought: 70k won’t change my life. I have a high w-2 income and I know how to make money in real estate. I buy 1-2 properties a month for long term hold. That is my hedge against inflation, and my slow term wealth build.
This is my gamble. Losing 70k, won’t change my life much. But losing out on the possibility of 10million would really hurt.
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I was asking myself the same question. Should I pick up a little bit of Bitcoin?
Then I said to myself, maybe pick up a little bit after the price crash.
Then I asked myself, how low and at what price am I willing to buy the Bitcoin at?
I told myself, maybe when Bitcoin price drop to $1000.
But then I told myself, if Bitcoin price really drop significantly to $1000 a piece, then the time to drop to zero won’t be far away...
Like Enron many years ago, when the stock price dropped to $1.00, it then filed bankruptcy and dropped to zero.
So, nevermind, even Bitcoin drop significantly down to $1000 a piece, I’m not going to gamble on it. (Although I like gambling in Las Vegas). To gamble, I will go back to Venetian Casino, either “DOUBLE IT” or “LOSE IT ALL”.
Good luck, you guys!
How come you don't see the excitement you could have, of asking yourself all those questions at your desktop, if only you had some skin in the game? This can beat wanting a trip to Las Vegas!
Originally posted by @Logan Turner:
I took the plunge and plopped 10k down. Bitcoin and litecoin.
My 10k, 4 days later is now valued at 15k.
Not bad for 4 days. I may sell a note I own and drop it in litecoin. My thought: 70k won’t change my life. I have a high w-2 income and I know how to make money in real estate. I buy 1-2 properties a month for long term hold. That is my hedge against inflation, and my slow term wealth build.
This is my gamble. Losing 70k, won’t change my life much. But losing out on the possibility of 10million would really hurt.
That's sweet. There was one of the og bitcoiners I heard say a couple years ago, just get one bitcoin that is all you will need.
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
Originally posted by @Logan Turner:
I took the plunge and plopped 10k down. Bitcoin and litecoMy 10k, 4 days later is now valued at 15k.
Not bad for 4 days. I may sell a note I own and drop it in litecoin. My thought: 70k won’t change my life. I have a high w-2 income and I know how to make money in real estate. I buy 1-2 properties a month for long term hold. That is my hedge against inflation, and my slow term wealth build.
This is my gamble. Losing 70k, won’t change my life much. But losing out on the possibility of 10million would really hurt.
That's sweet. There was one of the og bitcoiners I heard say a couple years ago, just get one bitcoin that is all you will need.
I’ve been reading a lot of your comments Matt regarding crypto and tend to agree with your stance.
Since I wrote that, litecoin has went from 220 up to 350. Could be a big bubble but, I think it’s a larger risk not to find out.
Apparently there will only be like 0.03 bitcoin per person, once they are all mined and due to some being lost.
It’s getting valued between 100k and 1million per coin. It could all go to nothing, but This also could be the internet of money and will forever change history. I’m willing to spend some money to “INSURE” I’m not left out.
High priced insurance people.