Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 54%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$69 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Ryan Moyer

Ryan Moyer has started 11 posts and replied 862 times.

Post: Stessa and Airbnb Data Import ...

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

Will it match the statement amount up with the actual credit transaction for the bank account attached to Stessa?

Post: VRBO charges 10% commission for direct booking outside of their platform

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

This is the first I've heard of this.  Like the others said, I don't see how VRBO would even know you had a direct booking, or what would make them think they're privy to commission on a booking they didn't secure.

Post: How do you calculate gross revenue?

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

It's $558 and anyone saying otherwise is wrong :P

Post: Str - vacation home in Orlando

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

I own a property in the Disney market and co-host/manage another 25 in the area.

Disney I think is a good market if your goals are more aligned with traditional long term real estate goals, and a bad market if your goals are more immediate gratification and short term cash flow.

The major benefit of the Disney market is that it's about the safest market you can find from a long-term perspective. If you buy in the proper STR areas there is practically zero regulation risk. It is my personal opinion that 50 years from now STR in residential zones will be illegal in 100% of the country. STRs in their current form are simply big hotels, and legislation has been slow to catch up because in their original form they were more conducive to residence (someone crashing on your couch for $39/night).

When in that 50 year span a particular market will catch up and require hotel/tourist zoning for STRs is a coinflip, but in the Disney market it's already done. The STR neighborhoods here are built specifically for STR. The houses are not meant to be lived in full time. They don't even have mailboxes. To run an STR here you get a hotel license. They are already treated as hotels, there isn't really any risk of being regulated out.

Additionally, from a demand perspective Orlando is built around tourism.  20 years from now people will still be going there for Disney/Universal/Seaworld etc.  A lot of other markets 20 years from now could be ghost towns with little demand.

But on the flipside, that safety/security comes with lessor immediate returns, as is a normal balance with investments (more risk traditionally equals more short term gain potential).  If you're buying a place turnkey you're unlikely to be able cash flow positive or even break even, especially if you're paying a manager (although management fees are the lowest in the country here due to all of the competition).  There is just too much competition.

If you're willing to invest heavily into theming you can force cashflow, but even that is going to be tight unless you really hit it out of the park with your theming.  Because again, there are lots of people that are theming, competition is VERY high here.  A 99th percentile property in a different market is a 70th percentile home here.  To be 99th percentile you need a Bowling Alley AND a laser tag arena INSIDE the house.

So it comes down to goals.  Are you looking from a more traditional real estate perspective where you're trying to acquire an asset for long term preservation of wealth, tax advantages, to have guests help out with the mortgage payemnts, potentially have rents and home value increase in time with normal inflation, and are okay with the idea of paying some amount out of the pocket some (most?) months out of the year?  Then the Disney area may be a good fit.

But if you watched some youtube channel with someone, who seems to get a deceitfully large percentage of their info from selling courses, preaching the dream of massive upfront cashflow that you can then leverage into another down payment next year and so on while exponentially increasing your wealth so you can quit your job and live on the beach in Aruba, Disney is the wrong market for you unless you're willing to invest substantially into super tippy top end theming.

The good news if you're in the former camp is that prices have come down quite a bit here compared to most of the country with all of the saturation/competion.  Not quite to pre-covid levels but homes that were $550k pre-covid can be had in the high $600's now, down from a peak of around $900k.  So unlike markets like 30A and the like where prices have remained rather steady despite the returns being extremely poor at current home prices, I think we've probably already hit the bottom (or at least near it) on home values.


Post: STR insurance in Florida

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281
Quote from @Chris Watson:

If you go back and look over the past two years the Media has tried to paint Florida as a place people are running from.  This is actually biased media with an objective (including Tampa Bay Times). They are anti DeSantis.  These articles literally pop up weekly and those of us who live here laugh as most zip codes have population growth every year.  I own multiple beachfront/Gulf Front properties and and some rates actually went down this year. As for insurers not renewing insurance in certain zip codes it happens all the time.  The actuaries realize they have too many policies in one area and the insurance companies want to reduce risk and spread risk.  I actually keep my broker checking with one company to see when they are taking more policies in my zip code because they have great rates and coverage. Don't believe the news as more insurers are moving into Florida now and people are moving to Florida. There was a Tampa Bay Times opinion piece a couple months ago about a person leaving Florida and when I read it they were leaving because of politics. That person was not wanting to be around people who had different political views. The irony...the party of tolerance being intolerant.


 Fox News is anti-Desantis?

Post: AirBNB Fees - Total Revenue VS Fees

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

This is from Hospitable.  Same PMS I use.

To clarify on one of the statements above, the revenue includes only pass-through taxes.  Taxes that Airbnb pays direct to the state/county are not included in the revenue there.  But if there are any additional taxes that the host has to collect and pass through to the county/state manually, they are included in the revenue there.

Yes, cleaning fees are included in that revenue.

Yes, that revenue is before Airbnb fees.  To clarify, that is before the 3% Airbnb host fee, NOT the 14% Airbnb guest fee.  However if the host elects to pay the entire fee then that would make the host fee 15%, which would need to be subtracted instead of 3%.

On that screen there is a button to export the report via Excel.  The excel doc will give all of this info broken down.  That screen is just a summary.  If you can't get tax docs, at least get the excel statement which will break everything out (nightly rev, cleaning fee, taxes, host fee, etc).

Post: Bottle of Wine for a Welcome Gift

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

I suppose the best risk is no risk, but for as much as everyone immediately jumps to the "omg...alcohol, such a liability!" I can't say I've ever heard one single solitary story about any of these potential scenarios actually happening despite a relatively high number of STRs leaving wine etc as a welcome gift.

You'd think by now we'd have at least ONE post in here or in the hundreds of STR facebook groups about someone that left wine as a welcome gift and got sued after a drunk person had an accident, or got reamed out by a recovering alcoholic, etc. But I've never seen it, not even one time, nor even heard about it happening second hand in one of these groups/forums.

Post: I sure hope everyone is doing OK

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

Good post @Michael Baum.  So sorry to hear about all the losses.  I never would have imagined these kind of effects from a hurricane in Western NC.  Just gutted for everyone involved and wishing the best on a recovery.

Post: Negative Cashflow - STR

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281


Revenue numbers are trending down year over year, not up.  An email marketing funnel for re-booking is nice, but it's barely keeping up with the year over year decline in rents due to saturation (quantity saturation AND quality saturation) and shifting travel trends.  20 years ago your hot tub made your listing an all-star.  Now it makes it average, everyone has one.  5 years ago your dynamic pricing and professional photos and 5* reviews made your listing an all-star.  Now it makes it average, everyone has that.  Another 2-3 years game rooms and theaters and coffee bars and all that jazz will be the same.  It's already headed there.

And that's while we operate at all-time highs for travel in an economy where travel demand has remained at peak.  Any shift or slight weakness in travel demand and things can accelerate real fast.

There is still lots of dumb money entering the market that won't be if the economy softens.  I see it every day.  I had a client come to me just yesterday to manage their property that I had to have a real heart to heart with.

I asked them what their primary goal was (cash flow was their answer) and what the projections were that they used to make their purchase decision.  They said they were projecting $300/nt with 48% occupancy.  That's $52,500/yr

The house was $750k, 10% down @ 6.5% interest. And this was a large property in a high expense market (Orlando). HOA $500/mo. Electric $900/mo. Water $250/mo.

And they were planning to pay me 18% off the top to manage it.

And I would say, of the clients that typically come to market, they were MORE prepared than normal. 95% have not run any projections at all. They're just buying an STR because their friend (with a 2017 mortgage) is making good money, or because they saw something about it on Youtube, or social media.

If this particular cabin we are talking about here doesn't underwrite, it might still sell....for now.  A few years from now when all the dumb money that doesn't know how to underwrite washes out that may not be true anymore.  If the place is losing $60k-$120k/yr I would take that equity and invest it better into something that is not that far below the margins, while the getting is still good.

Post: Negative Cashflow - STR

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

Honestly, I would sell it now while there are still an endless supply of foolish newbie investors out there that have the capital to throw around $2M with no underwriting skills and assume they'll cashflow based on bad advice from realtors and youtubers.

Eventually once everyone starts wisening up to these investment-only properties being a negative investment, prices will start falling and you might lose that equity.  I have no idea how long that will take though because there are a lot of people out there right now with more money than sense buying these deals that will never cash flow and then complaining that they can't cash flow.