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All Forum Posts by: Ryan Moyer

Ryan Moyer has started 11 posts and replied 862 times.

Post: Selling cost of STR in Kissimmee, FL

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281
Quote from @David Atis:

Congrats on having a successful STR! If you're planning to sell, here are the main costs to consider:

Agent Commissions – Typically 5-6% of the sale price (split between the buyer’s and seller’s agents).
Closing Costs – Usually 1-3% of the sale price, covering title fees, escrow fees, and transfer taxes.
Capital Gains Taxes – If you’ve owned the property for less than a year, you may owe short-term capital gains tax (taxed as regular income). If it’s been over a year, you’ll likely owe long-term capital gains tax, which is lower. A 1031 exchange could help defer taxes if you’re reinvesting in another property.
Repairs & Staging – Pre-sale touch-ups, deep cleaning, and staging can help maximize value but come with upfront costs.
Loan Payoff & Prepayment Penalties – If you have a mortgage, check if there are any prepayment penalties.

If your STR is cash-flowing well, it might also be attractive to another investor looking for a turnkey rental. You could explore off-market sales to avoid full commission costs.

 Fwiw I think closing costs are way higher than 1-3% in Florida.  There are all kinds of ridiculous taxes and fees when closing in Florida.  Document stamp fee.  Document stamp tax.  Document stamp estate fee.  Document stamp estate tax.  And on and on.

Post: STR Viability in 2025 Onward

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

They're still very viable, they're just not the "buy literally anything and make instant huge cashflow with little effort" thing they were coming out of the pandemic where you could throw a dart at the MLS and get 80% cash on cash. That's never coming back.

This is a normal cycle for a new investment vehicle.  Previously STRs were thought of as risky, there wasn't much info about the actual financials behind them or what it took to run them, how to underwrite them, etc.

The more risky and less populated an investment vehicle is, the better the returns are.

Now the secret is out, everyone knows about it, it's super easy to find info on how to do it, how to underwrite for it, etc.  It's become closer to a more traditional investment vehicle.  Generally safer, more populated, lower returns.

Like traditional real estate, it's all about the deal, about knowing what you're doing, about having an edge.  You can just blindly buy any random thing and prosper.  Those days are over.  Forever.  Some people think it's just an economic cycle and we'll get back to 2021/2022 markets one day, but we won't.  Too many investors are involved now.

Every investment vehicle goes through the same thing.  The people doing LTR now will never make the same kind of money as LTR investers 30 years ago with the same kind of ease.  Crypto investers now will never make the same kind of money as people that bought Bitcoin for under $1 when most people had never heard of it.  The key to fast easy you-can't-fail money like we had a few years ago is getting in before everyone knows about it.  That time has passed for STRs.

But as a traditional investment/real estate vehicle, where it's about finding the right deal, having more modest long-term expectations, etc, it's still extremely viable and arguably still much more lucrative short term and long term than LTR if you do it right.  But again, that just doesn't mean buy whatever.  That means finding a deal, knowing what you're doing, creating an edge.

Post: Short Term Rental Issues with Property Management and General Consensus

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

It's unlikely that a property manager will increase your revenue by enough to make up their fee (unless you're really bad at it), so if you're looking at it strictly from a returns perspective then you're probably better off self managing.

The question, of course, is how much your time is worth to you.  Because on an hourly basis, your time may or may not be better spent elsewhere.  It's cheaper to walk from the airport to the hotel than take an Uber, but it takes more of your time.

It sounds like you have the means and desire to give self management a try.  So what does it hurt to give it a shot?  Try it, and see if it works for you, or if you'd rather pay a slight premium to not be bothered with midnight clogged toilet calls.  For some people, that's worth saving some extra cash.  For some it ends up not being worth it.  Most people are afraid to even try.  It sounds like you're not, so give it a shot and see how it goes!

Post: Airbnb’s new AI review system

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:

Airbnb is the worst and somehow continue to outdo themselves time and time again.


 I swear it's something new every quarter.

Post: Airbnb’s new AI review system

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281
Quote from @Jacob Morgenstern:

That is interesting news! Is this for all listings:? I just checked a few and it doesn't seem to be the case for me. Unless a hosts view is different than a guests view? 


I think it is based on the account of the person viewing the listing.  For instance if I look at my listing in an incognito chrome window the reviews on my listing show up in a different order than if I view the same listing while logged into Airbnb. 

Post: Looking for STR Community in Orlando – Pool Homes with Amenities

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

Windsor Hill's age is not really a problem.  The proximity to Disney makes up for it.  And while their amenities are much smaller than the newer resorts, they did a good job with them such that they look great in listing photos, with the big bright water slides etc.  

Storey Lake's amenity area is much larger and more comprehensive than Windsor's, but Windsor's actually LOOKS better in photos to people scrolling quickly on Airbnb.

Additionally, Windsor's age means it has a reputation, so there are people that seek it out exclusively (IE they don't search for "Orlando" or "Disney", they search for "Windsor Hills").  Maintenance costs are also less becuase you have more international families compared to the other resorts that attract plenty of party locals.  

Lastly, the age their can be a boon at times if you do updates to make the home more modern.  When people search out Windsor you'll be competing against a bunch of people with old 2004 oak cabinets etc, so you can make your place stand out beyond just the theming.  Compared to Storey Lake, Windsor at Westside, etc where everyone is going to have the same modern kitchen, living room, etc.

That said, it's not necessarily my favorite if ROI is a primary concern.

Windsor Hills - Closest "real" resort to Disney.  Quieter, attracts more families, international travelers.  Modestly priced homes but max out at 6br,

Champions Gate - Far from Disney, but most travelers arent savvy enough to know the travel time is further than the map indicates.  Great amenities.  Best acquisition prices here relative to the home you're getting.  If you want to put most of your money into theming, at a lower acquisition price, this is the place.  Like Windsor, there are people that have been coming here for a long time and specifically search out CG.  Much more of a party vibe when you drive through the neighborhood though.

Storey Lake - In between.  Not as close as Windsor, but east of Disney instead of south so you avoid I-4 and actual travel time is much shorter than CG.  New modern houses, much higher prices than CG.  You save a few bucks on the reno as they already come with flex/game rooms instead of having to drywall in the garage like in CG/Windsor.  But your place theming better be awesome here because people are doing these things to the nines.  Also while every neighborhood has it's issues (Windsor has the least), Storey Lake has maybe the most.  I swear the front gate hasn't worked properly in a year and they just don't seem to care to fix it.

Reunion - If you're a baller with $2M+ to spend, this is the place to do it.  You get an actual unique home (not the same thing repeated like the other neighborhoods) and do something special.  But this is a totally different market than all the rest.  If you are looking at the main, real part of Reunion with the $4M custom homes, then you're not considering the other neighborhoods because it may as well be a different city.

Solara - Meh, it's nice.  Small compared to the other behemoths.  Does everything okay, not particularly a standout at anything, so people tend to forget about it.

Solterra - Just don't do it.

Windsor Island/Windsor at Westside - I honestly know less about these resorts than the others, as I only manage one in WI, none at Westside.  My impression is that the returns are not quite as good here, but I don't have hard data on that like many of the other neighborhoods where I own or manage multiple.

Bottom Line - If it were me, I would buy a big place in CG and spend a bunch of money on really really good theming.  Or I would buy in Windsor Hills and try to be one of the top 20 properties there, as location is the one thing you can never change and a thing people will always be looking for.  And don't sleep on the difference in maintenance costs.  These behemoth resorts further from Disney definitely bring in a lot more wear and tear than the kind of visitors typically coming to quiet Windsor.

A place like Storey Lake is really nice, and will do a bit more in revenue, but I don't think enough to justify the cost.  Our themed places in Storey Lake may do 10-15% more in revenue than our themed places in CG/Windsor, but you're talking about a $1M acquisition price on those Storey Lake homes versus $600k-$700k in Champions Gate and Windsor.

Just my $0.02.  I also have a realtor friend (that sold me my house in CG: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/52612233) that has a lead on a totally different option to get out of the grind of the same home in these resort neighborhoods copied over and over, if you wanted an introduction.

Post: Kissimmee Florida STR advice/property management

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

I am both an investor and manager in the Orlando area.  

For a lot of investors Orlando is a really poor choice. For some investors Orlando can be a really good choice. If you have a typical mortgage (80% LTV) It's not a cash flow market unless you are willing to spend extensively on theming/upgrades. With theming, it can be done but you still need to weigh it against the saturation even within the theming submarket, which has exploded.

Regarding your questions

1) Saturation is very real here, and the biggest "problem" for owners by far.  Not just quantity saturation, but quality saturation (the houses are gettting bigger and better, pushing formerly top-end houses down the list into appearing more mediocre by comparison)

This is my property: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/52612233

Three years ago I would have said it was a 99th percentile property.  Now?  Not even close to that.  But it still makes me good money.  Of course I have a different mortage than you will.  I'm happy to share those numbers.

2) Orlando has already declined quite a bit off of the peak RE values.  The question is where the bottom is.  There's a chance you might be catching it before it bounces back up.  Or a chance it's a falling knife that will keep going.

I bought my property for $568k in 2021. Disregarding the theming (IE just comparing the appraisable size/comps of the home) it probably peaked out at around $900k in value during the RE peak, but is probably worth $650k-$700k now (again disregarding the upgrades). So as you can see, almost back down to where it was before the big RE boom, whereas in most STR markets the homes are still 2x the price they were in early 2021 if not more. So maybe that RE decline that's coming for those markets is already built-in here.

Orlando does offer other major long-term advantages like long term demand (will Broken Bow still be a place people travel to in 10 years?  Maybe.  Will Disney still be a place people travel to in 10 years?  Certainly) and some of the lowest regulation risk in the country so long as you buy in the approved areas.

I'm happy to share real world revenue and theming examples as well.

Post: running a STR in SLC

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281
Quote from @Patrick Osterling:

Hey @Justin Brown, I agree with the comments above. But to answer your question why you still see so many active STR's on Airbnb in a restricted area, it could be a couple things: It could be a "hosted rental" meaning the homeowner is there and is just renting rooms on Airbnb. It could also be that although many municipalities do have laws that restrict STR's, they rarely have the time, resources and manpower to actually enforce those rules. I've sat on city council meetings where a county will straight up say they can make changes to the laws, but they don't have the resources to actually enforce them. Although you might be able to get away with it for a while, all it would take is for a neighbor to call in and you could get shut down or fined. Just my 2 cents. 


It's mostly the middle one. SLC doesn't really enforce it very strictly. But it's playing with fire to buy there if STR is a priority as it's very likely they will eventually start enforcing it better.

Post: Advise on Purchasing my first STR in Kissimmee Florida

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

@Trevor McCormick I have a lot of properties in that area.  If you want some revenue numbers for similar properties to the ones you're looking at or anything to use in underwriting feel free to reach out.  Just make sure you're actually putting pen to paper and doing your due diligence on underwriting.  It's a competitive market and most of the people that get in trouble here are ones that buy blindly without actually figuring out the numbers, etc.

You'd be surprised the number of times I get asked after month one if their electric bill of $xxx or whatever is normal, and the thought running through my head is "how did you not  check things like that before you committed half a million dollars to something?"

Post: Nashville STR Required Business Licenses and Taxes

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 877
  • Votes 1,281

If you're doing STR the first thing you'll need is the VLS license from the state, and that comes with the requirement of taking an 8 hour class.

There weren't any of those on the schedule, but I need mine so I talked them into doing one in early February if you want to hop on that one.  It is virtual over zoom but taught live.