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All Forum Posts by: Peter Schuyler

Peter Schuyler has started 18 posts and replied 208 times.

Post: Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Jay Hinrichs

I really enjoy your posts because you demystify all the shiny objects.   My first duplex was a new build form a local builder, and when I purchased it below market. he did not make as much profit on this as some of the others, but he showed his numbers, and I was blown away how much he did walk away from even on my below market purchase.  It was still a win-win for both of us.  Do you build homes for investors or retail?

Post: Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Account Closed I put this together in Powerpoint, maybe if I send it to you could do Turnkey Option 2. 

Post: Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Account Closed

Pretty impressive charts.  We should talk, to be honest, I still struggling to wrap my head around your version of Turnkey, who owns what, transactions needed and when, what if the tenant does not do the maintenance, etc, title issues, timing, etc.  I have read about this a little bit in Brandon Turner's book.

Post: Truth in Equity - HELOCs

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

Seems like you could almost mimic this with borrowing from your 401K, paying a lump sum to mortgage, then paying your self back from your paycheck every month.

I'm sure some will say that is lost opportunity cost by reducing the balance on your 401K, but you are paying yourself interest back and its a fixed rate over 5 years.  

I really like borrowing from my 401K at the moment. I have a good job, for now, of course, no guarantees, worse case I have to pay taxes on the amount withdrawn and a 10% penalty if I lose my job and did not pay it back, so there is some risk but seems lower than the HELOC risk.

Post: Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@AJ Singh

How long have you had your rental in Cordova, do you see signs of dropping rent overall, or is this marketing timing given its a bit off season now?

Post: Norada Real Estate a good way to buy turnkey real estate?

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Thomas L.@Larry Fried@Tom Ott

I just posted a case study on my Norada/Memphis experience, 

Writeup Here

Post: Norada

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Jay Hinrichs, @Thomas Staub

I agree and have seen many posts about the pro/cons of Turnkey. I'm a busy I.T. professional and my time per hour at work earns me the means to invest. If I had the time to Hustle and BRRRR I could have some forced equity early and not have to buy my equity. I'm buying these for long-term wealth, possible retirement income, and more important to pass on something to my children, so the additional money I paid to a turnkey to do the heavy lifting over the long haul seems like money well spent for now. Long-term performance may sway my opinion though. Norada made the process simple, M.I.P did their part, not perfect but as Jay mentions in other posts I have seen, they do deserve to make a profit for their efforts. Given they manage over 1700 properties, my trust is in the numbers and qualifications at this point.

Post: Turnkey recommendations (Norada or Memphisinvest or Roofstock)

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124

@Jason Carter

Some of that time vacant was purposeful in the fact that after the tenant left, the company needed time to renovate, around 30-45 days, so I was prepared for that time, but the extended renovations into Sep and initial delay put us outside the summer.  The only impact so far was a hike in interest rate, and the first mortgage payment being paid without any inbound income.  On my Texas properties, I truly have around 5% vacancy YoY, so that is what I was expecting 4-5%.  I'm hoping year 1 is an anomaly for this property and Y2, Y3 is more like the 4%.

Post: Turnkey recommendations (Norada or Memphisinvest or Roofstock)

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124
I was using Memphis Investment Properties, LLC which is a different company thean MemphisInvest.com, but same area and model.

Originally posted by @Lee Ripma:

@Muneef Alfadli

I think there are some horror stories floating around about Memphis Invest. Do very good due diligence if you invest with them. I thought about doing TK when I first got started. After touring some TK properties I thought better of it and decided to invest on my own instead. 

Post: Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Peter SchuylerPosted
  • Fort Myers Beach, FL
  • Posts 225
  • Votes 124
That spreadsheed is a little dauting, almost need an info graphic.

I think I get the concept, Lease/Option instead of traditional buy and hold turnkey with little forced equity, only bought equity.


Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Peter Schuyler:

Memphis Investment Properties Turnkey Case Study

Disclaimer: I am an investor/customer of M.I.P, I do not work for them nor being compensated in anyway, just sharing my experiences with other investors.

Providers Involved:

Norada Real Estate Investments

Memphis Investment Properties (M.I.P)

Reedy and Company Realtor, LLC – Real Estate Broker and Property Management for M.I.P

Bemortgage – Lender

Lipscomb – Insurance

The Prep:

  • I originally came across M.I.P through Norada (Marco Santarelli, BP contributor and has his own podcast).
  • I was assigned an advisor who gathered my goals and situation and we worked together to identify two markets to look at Memphis TN, and Birmingham, AL.
  • I’m am an out of state investor living in Colorado and have two other properties in Texas (not turnkey) and have been a BP member for some time.
  • I attended an investor Tour in May in Memphis to check out the area. It was hosted by M.I.P and we toured properties, meet lenders, insurance agencies, and other provider doing business with M.I.P

My Criteria/Situation:

  • 100K Purchase price
  • Good working-class B, B+ area
  • 3/2/brick house
  • Was looking for 1% rent to purchase ratio
  • Conventional financing with 20-25% down payment
  • Utilized 401K loan for down payment and closing costs

The Purchase:

During the M.I.P Property tour in May, they handed out flyers with properties for sale reserved for visitors that weekend. I put down $3K deposit on a house during the first day of the tour.

Below is the Performa and the initial picture of the house. Additional pictures, comps, and a list of renovations were provided, no costs, just items they would do. We had seen a similar house on the tours. M.I.P is willing to replace HVAC’s, roofs, windows, etc. when needed, but they will minimize the renovations based on the age of major items, etc.

This house needed a new HVAC/condenser, but the roof and floors were in average condition.

This house was set to be empty June 30, and close August 45 days later, this did not happen as planned.

Timeline of events:

  • Property Tour May 17-19
  • Deposit on May 18, 3K for $95K purchase
  • May 21 Purchase Agreement signed electronically
  • June 30, the house will be vacant (renovations start)
  • Was notified in early July tenant would not leave
  • July 17 house syndicated on Zillow, Realtor.com, Trulia etc. (pictures of current house pre-renovation listed along with a second house-MISTAKE)
  • July 23, tenants move out and return keys
  • Aug 31 First set of renovations complete, mostly cosmetic
  • Through Sep I negotiated with Norada and M.I.P to improve the renovations, I was not satisfied with work nor scope, they agreed to all items and improved the unit through Sep while it was on the market.
  • Sep 12 Appraisal came in for asking price of $95,000, cost $495
  • Sep 18th Third Party Property Inspectors found items, M.I.P fixed all issues, Cost $295
  • Sep 28th, closed on the property, no tenant yet

Closing:

  • The closing was smooth, mobile notary came to my house
  • All paperwork initially was signed via DocuSign, but ended up signing everything in front of the mobile notary at the end again
  • Electronic copies were available post-closing
  • No issues with wiring money, etc.

Post-Closing:

  • Home is still empty, Reedy and Company Realtors, LLC is now the Property Management company
  • Pictures of final renovations were provided after many inquiries
  • House rent rate was lowered to $965 after sitting vacant all summer at $1065
  • I was not sure why they raised the rent so high during the closing process. A friend of mine noted that some do that to actually discourage renters during the renovation process, so they can finish and have access. Others note that the marketing department wants to raise the rents for the benefit of all. I do not think this was a major strategy killer, but the house sat empty during peak rental time (Summer before school started) and is still vacant at a price above Proforma.

Some Observations:

  • Closing costs came out to be much higher than the proforma estimate
  • Taxes were spot on
  • Property Mgmt. fee spot on
  • The vacancy is listed at 4%, even though PM says I takes an average of 45 days to rent, so it’s a broad average I’m assuming after tenant leases or across all their properties.
  • They advertise 2-year leases during the tour and most turnkeys are rented prior to closing, not the case for my property, still vacant
  • One inquiry has come in for a family whose house burned down, but they want 3-month lease smack in the middle of winter for another renewal, not optimal
  • Neither the marketing department nor PM inside Reedy was very proactive as far as communication. I had to get Norada involved too many times to push them to email me back. This is probably my major complaint as this is totally controllable. As an out of state investor all we can expect is communication since we are trusting the process 100%.
  • The delay in closing was also probably controllable since it was their tenant to remove. This caused me a rise in interest rates and the second hit to my credit since it had to be pulled twice over the period of closing.
Proforma Estimate Actual Notes
Closing Costs $2854 $4086 %43 higher than the estimate
Pre-Pays $0 $734 I was told that M.I.P does not try to estimate pre-pays
Interest Rate 5.25% 5.375% I put 25% down, the delay in closing caused me to obtain a higher interest rate
Property Taxes $97 $97 Spot on (2017 records)
Insurance $40 $52 I used Lipscpomb, M.I.P .recommendation
Vacancy 4% (14.6 days a year) Since tenant vacated 26% (95 days) Since my ownership 5% (21 of the 95 days)

Overall Summary:

Overall, I would recommend Norada and M.I.P. My experience was not perfect, but most items come with the territory in my mind. You must do your due diligence and expect delays.

My major complaint was lack of proactive communication. I work in the I.T. field were daily, weekly communication is the key to working in a remote environment. I have come to expect that from anyone who is in partnership around my investments. I did express my disappointment many times in lack of communication and it improved a bit after closing. I do not hold any one individual at fault, I believe its part of the system, they are overly busy and have to multi-task quite a bit. I think they should be upfront that you might not hear from them for days or weeks sometimes.

I would be more than happy to talk to any investor about my first Turnkey investment. I will most likely do this again because I'm not an expert in BRRRR, Wholesaling, or Fix and Flips. I need consistent CoC, Tax relief, and mortgage pay down, etc.

 Thank for the detail. I've been curious how the Turnkey actually turns out for the Investor with Type 1 Turnkey. I put together a comparison of Type 1 Turnkey & Type 2 Turnkey and this is what I came up with. 

I'd like your comments of any corrections on Type 1 Turnkey. Disclaimer: I provide Type 2 Turnkey in Phoenix & Mesa to people from CA & AZ. It is a different market than yours in TN & AL with different costs associated, but I'd be interested in any tweaks that you've learned that would make the experience better. CLICK on Images to enlarge: