All Forum Posts by: Henry Clark

Another freebie.

If your county will allow Storage containers.  Set them up at the site as Camping rental units.   Check out European Hostel set ups.  Go basic, no electricity, no water, now sewer.  Put in a community shower and bathroom.  No property taxes on Storage units, since not tied to the ground.  Paint each one with funny pictures or posts.  Sunflower, bear, Cyclone, Hawkeye, etc.  Not big, just something on the door for them to say hey, I stayed in the Smoky the bear unit.

Below is some more detailed info are these subjects:

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Primary question to check on with your local zoning group, are they allowed. Same goes for individual collapsible storage units. The following discussion is just on Cargo Containers.

Only if you have cheap/extra land and can do rock roads (if you have to have concrete/asphalt roads, you need a higher return unit).
If your in the country and your zoning allows it, go with 20 foot Cargo containers as a good part of your mix. Put some gravel down at the front and back of the unit to get it off the ground. If two rows, put them back to back. Buy in groups of two. They can be delivered two at a time on a tilt bed truck trailer. Delivery cost will be the same for 1 versus 2, about $120 within 30 miles. Tell them ahead of time how you want them to face when they are unloaded. They will not get placed perfectly so plan to unload then 20 to 30 feet away and have a crane truck set them in place. I would recommend buying about 20 at a time, to make it worth everyone's time.

Depending on how close you are to shipping areas, your container delivered may run $2,100. Rent for $50/month.

A 10 x 15 or 20 traditional outside access unit will run $3,100 installed. 10 x 20 same market rents for $65/month.

Containers are only good for clients who can open/close them. Appreciate their airtightness.

They will rent for less. Example: 8 x 20 ft container $50; 10 x 15 traditional $55; 10 x 20 traditional $65 in the countryside.

No property taxes since they are not attached to the ground.

You can buy as you need them.

Have to many, just sale them.

Talk with your tax person. Should be able to write them off in year one.

Recommend you use silver trailer roof paint. This lowers the inside temperature significantly. Also paint the Visual exterior sides a consistent light color to reflect the sun. Sand down roof and side rust spots first, then prime. We have 40 of them and they look great painted one color. Everyone wants to buy one.

When you buy, pick no leaks in roof or floor. Side dents are okay. Easy to open doors. Don't buy single trip containers they cost to much. Also don't plan to fix them up. If you replace one of the plywood floor panels with original material it will be about $800 per 4 x 8 sheet. Door hinges and bars will be costly to replace.

For Property insurance these are treated as Personal Property and not as buildings. Make sure you have enough coverage under Personal Property, along with your lawn mower, office equipment, etc.

Recap:

- Cheaper than traditional

- rents less $50 vs $65 but more profit

- no property tax, since not attached to the ground

- Can add and sell as needed.

- Insure as Personal property and not Property.

- Bank may not want to loan against, since moveable.

- Harder to open, so not good for some clients, others like them because the are more secure and for pest control.

Separate topic. The units below were 2 foot under water, over the roofs for a month. One year ago. Floors, metal and door hinges are fine. Very durable product. Not a product for every location, but works well where possible. Would go good with a Boat/RV/Vehicle storage location for onsite storage.

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Parking info:
Surface, Canopy, Enclosed.

Just talking Surface.

Have run the numbers about 10 times on Enclosed, but I would have to charge $225 to $350 per month and don't have that market here. Have only seen one location on the interstate near Oklahoma City that had that market ($150,000 to $500,000 RV's) and they were full. They have a lot of $1mm homes and lakes nearby. You have to do Concierge services for that market. Battery charger, turn fridge on before trips, Dump station, Concierge parking service, Tire/Oil/etc check, Big drive ways, electric in each unit, etc.

Canopy, I have seen in Texas. Cant say much, haven't researched it.

I have been in two other models. Old welding shop with 40 foot roofs. Spots are "crammed in". They park and unpark for you.
Another, is winter only. You go "in" the fall and everyone comes "out" the same time in the spring. They also have a lot of outside spaces. Both of these models were full.




Attached (guess you can't upload Excel files) is an Inventory list of an exact 2 acre parking lot we have. Also the row configuration. See cut and past below.

Might not apply if your on concrete, which would be great, but I'll throw these out anyway.
Its on rock. Use 1 1/2 inch with "Fines". Cost about $20,000 for rock delivered.
Put Geogrid underneath, so no potholes after 4 years. Otherwise, you need to put a base of 3 inch rock first, then the 1 1/2 with fines. Be careful if you blade snow.
Payback is about 12 years.
Not the best use of the land, but didn't need it at the time for storage.
Put at 60 degree angle, otherwise you get a lot less spaces, since your driveways have to be wider. Example: If you do 90 degrees parking on a 50 foot space, you might need a 70 foot driveway. Also 60 degrees makes it easy for the driver. Also put the 60 degrees turn on the driver side window so they can see the turn.
Put a Wire and posts down the middle of the shared back to back parking so vehicles stay on their side. Used other posts, stakes, number signs (reflective) to define each space.
Mix. Went with even surface area for 20/30/40 foot spaces. Did not do any 50's for large RV's. Where we are at, most RV's are in the $10,000 to $70,000 range. Actually worked out pretty good. The 20's have a few vacancies.
Price $20/$30/$40. This is in a 10,000 population community with about 4 no wake lakes to the East within 60 miles. Prices could be higher, but= No city restrictions on vehicles, which would increase your market. Plus we are in the country, where you can find a friend to park.
Run light and security camera poles first.
Definitely put a "License Plate" specific camera at a narrow point and other cameras and lights at that bottleneck. Our spot is fenced off from the Storage location, with one access point, no gate there. Recommend your NVR has a timeline with Red markers for motion on your cameras.
Layout and capacity really depends on the lot shape. The same two acres, could probably get about 30% more if it was a rectangle versus a square, due to less turnarounds.


Attachment:
This is a relaxed layout, I did not try to cram the spaces in.

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CONSIDERATIONS FOR RV OR VEHICLE STORAGE




A. Pull through- The front, pull as far forward as possible, gives the person next to you an easier angle to turn into, from behind you. Align your front with the fronts of all other vehicles. Be courteous and leave enough room on the Driver side, so that RV can open their doors.


B. Back to back parking- our locations are set up at 60 degree parking. Also, they are setup for the driver to back in on their side, so they can use the lot next to them for alignment. This way you only have one blind side on the right side backing in. Otherwise you have two blind sides.


We have 20/30/40 foot parking at our location at 26763 Highway 34, Glenwood, IA. Each size has a different width due to how hard it is to park a longer unit at the very front angle of their turn in. 20’s- 10 wide; 30’s- 12 wide; 40’s- 15 wide. Although you could park an RV in any of these sizes, it is easier with a wider width to make the “front” turn. Or ask for an end parking spot, so you are doing a 90 degree parking, but have the whole drive way to back in with, without a turn.


C. Canopy- same issues as others, depending on if 60 degree or 90 degree parking.


D. Enclosed- Really a matter of width and depth. Keep in mind all measurements for storage are relative. For example: A 10 wide x 20 deep x 8 tall unit, with studs, roll up door and door jambs; is really 9 wide x 19 ft 6 inch deep x 7 ½ foot tall. Also if you have a 20 ft boat or Camper, its really 22/23/24 ft depending on Propeller, bumper or front hitch.


E. Surface- Rock or hard surface (concrete/asphalt); If on rock/asphalt put your tongue leg or stabilizer pads on wider pads to spread the weight out. These pads are needed on Asphalt since in hot weather they will sink into the asphalt.


F. Pest control- we put mouse bait out along the fence lines and under the units, mow excess weeds and grass. You should put both rodent and bug control in your unit. Dispose of all food sources, for long term storage. If you want to be really diligent with pest control, don’t park next to overhead lights. They attract bugs at night and then mice underneath. Put scented drier sheets in all compartments and rooms. Open all cabinets and doors.


G. Stabilizers- if doing long term storage put you stabilizers down. Most parking is in an open area and the units can rock and move with the wind. This will also help with taking pressure off your tires so they last longer.


H. Security- Put a lock on the hitch. Although you are in a secure location, RV’s and trailers are the easiest storage to break into or take without notice. Recommend you put in motion sensors or GPS tracking security. Check your vehicle at least twice a month. Most Security systems only maintain footage for 2 weeks due to camera memory capacity.


I. Propane Fuel Tanks- disconnect and store if leaving for long term storage.


J. Electronic Lifts- disconnect the battery if leaving for long term storage.


K. Insurance- most storage unit insurance policies do not cover vehicles. Keep your insurance, just have them adjust your automobile to fewer miles or just comprehensive coverage. Wind, Flood, tornado, Hail, or third party damage or theft can still occur. Traditional insurance coverage, RV’s normally stay a flat rate throughout the year, thus you will still need to maintain full coverage. Or, if you seek out a specific RV or rec vehicle insurance company, you can move in and out of winterization rates.


L. Pricing- use a 30 foot vehicle as an example:
-In the country about a $1 per foot on rock.
-With Paved access and parking spot, this might run $60 to $90
- Enclosed parking this will cost about $120 to $170 for a 30 foot.
- Enclosed parking for a 50 foot, might cost $225 to $350.


The price extremes are the cost of the concrete/asphalt road and the storage bay. Also the longer the unit the price goes up significantly because it takes more driveway width to park and the type of door changes in both size and type (remote operated). A 50 ft RV will require about a 70 foot wide driveway to back in.



We are only addressing the long term Parking portion of storage. Other items are specific to each vehicle such as water clean out, Tire/window shades, etc.






Quick non Parking list:
Wheel/tire covers; Vehicle cover.
Remove and store your tires.
Store with a full fuel tank to prevent condensation
Add fuel stabilizers
Place RV completely off the ground to prevent flat spots on your tires, if left for a long time.
Cover your HVAC, skylights, vents and windows to prevent exposure to sun and breakdown.
Boats leave your plug out, whether covered or not.

@Christian Walker

Mr Walker, your last three posts have been this exact same topic and scenario.  "NOT" criticizing.  To help, can you clarify, is your objective to find an investor from this forum and you are making a New post to generate fresh responses?

If your objective is to find an investor, I would recommend doing a Post looking for meetups in the Lake Charles, Beaumont, or Houston markets.  They will be closer to you and you/they can get personal face to face interaction.  Recognize you will have to give up some of the juice, possibly 50%.  Make sure both of you are on the same page, fix/flip or long-term passive income.

Your background says your still in College which is great. It will be hard to get financing from a traditional financial institution which I am sure you are aware of, unless you already have some wealth accumulation. If you already have the wealth, then collateralize it. Get the property up and running for a year, then you can show the income stream as some have noted above to get the valuation up. Realize this isn't fitting the BRRR or no money down concepts, but you will need to develop a track record with the property or collateralize your existing assets or show a personal revenue stream.

Another option is to reach out to your Financial, Bank and Legal contacts.  Explain the deal and ask them to initiate a meeting with some of their clientele.  This will leave them exposed to your success/failure with their existing client, so it has to be a winner on paper and in real life.  In other words if you have to drop out of school for a semester to get this project up to revenue generation, you will need to, to save their integrity.

@Kyle James Horstmann  Congrats on the overseas adventure.  I always say start small and make your big mistakes early.  Especially in a new business environment.

We are investing in Belize, with a few different investment objectives; thus we have had to go through the analysis also.

Ecuador:

a.  As someone mentioned, "interest" rates 9% average.  Be careful in South America countries, it can escalate very fast if there are issues with the government and economy.  Can you deal with 9% currently?  Can you deal with 30% next year?  Don't think in terms of long term loans.  And no financial institution in the US will finance down there.

b.  25% rental tax rate for Non residents rental income, plus 25% capital gains tax.  Compare this to other countries.

c.  Citizenship and Property ownership.  Looks straight forward, you have the same rights on paper.

d.  If this is a standalone property, you will need an onsite caretaker.  See picture below.  This is on our land.  This was a fully built/lived in property, three stories.  This is about 1/3 of the footprint. They left no caretaker on site.  The first thing we did was to build a house for our caretaker and his family.

e.  Currency fluctuations.  Where do you keep your money.

f.  Labor is cheap.  For that reason, none of our revenue will be based on selling to locals.  Two carpenters and two laborers for BZD $33 per hour total, roughly USD $16 per hour.  They loved it.  Good money and work for them.

g.  Keep one thing in mind, coming from the US.  Your not human anymore, your a piggy bank.  View that relationship with all people you deal with down there.  Even the wealthy.  Its both uncomfortable and also spending power.  When you get to know them and more importantly, once they know you are "there" for good, then the walls will come down.

h.  Flight time.  This will determine how much attention you pay to your investment.  Compare to other countries.

Realize the above are basic, but these are the thought processes we went through.  And yes, Belize is ranked in the top 10 deadliest countries in the world and we recognize that.

Welcome to Bigger pockets (on your post 1) from Glenwood, Iowa.  Change any numbers to fit your boots on the ground knowledge.

I will use 8 years and not NPV calc, just to give the discussion some Magnitude.  Not doing a full P/L analysis, Property taxes, Income taxes, depr, operating costs, etc, you can blow that out.

1.  Farming- 20 acres cash rent at $200/acre.  $4,000 less property taxes $200.  8 years x Say $4,000= $32,000; plus you still own the land.

2.   Need to know more about the location, but I will run with it.  Unless your near a town stay away from traditional storage.  If its a big lake or park, you might look at 4 acres of Boat and RV storage.  150 slots at $50 x 90% occupancy x 8 years= $648,000.  Assume ($150,000) in rock roads/parking, electric, security system and fences.  150 is really light, we have 100 on a square 2 acres.  Shape is very important on how many you can fit.  You still own after 8 years.

3.  If your truly close to the park or main rec area, look at RV park and RV rental.  Plus the storage.  Depends on how passive you want your investment.  If its large enough, you give one or two of the renters free rent for the summer to manage.  RV park, depends on how you pack them in.  Assume 6 acres, 40 spots per acre, state park $17 water/electric per night; private $25 to $50 water, electric, sewer; "A" level $60 water, electric, sewer, shower, washer/dryer, wifi.  Use $35 per night.  240 spots, 50% occupancy, 120 days=  $504,000;  Cost for water, electric, sewer, roads  $???,???; you still own after 8 years.  If you do this, I would recommend you offer different products.  Overnight slots, weekend slots, long-term slots.  Separate these physically and with different spacing and amenities.

4.  Divide into 4 lots and sell for $100,000 per lot.  $400,000  Maybe $10,000 for subdivision legal, survey/plat work.  You don't own after 8 years.

5. SFH, MFH, solar, trailer- leave to you to analyze. Do quick and dirty number of units times your prospective profit levels.

I would recommend go with either a.  Strength of the property, near park, b.  Your wheelhouse/comfort zone, etc.  Also depends on your "Passive" income goals versus flip profit.

4.  Depending on Road access.  One side, two sides on corner, shape of property,  etc.  Quick profit do a split.  Make 4 lots and sell for $100,000 each, depends on the nature/desirability of your land.  We are doing a similar subdivision on our property.

@Robert Tinker

Below is a template I used for a storage unit discussion.  Just change and add to fit your thoughts.  This will help you decided on how much your spot might cost.  This will help you to determine the amount of loan you need and then the amount of collateral you have to have.  This will help you narrow down your "expectations" and will speed up your site selection process.  You won't need most of this, but let it tickle your thought process.

@Robert Tinker

CONSIDERATIONS FOR RV OR VEHICLE STORAGE

A. Pull through- The front, pull as far forward as possible, gives the person next to you an easier angle to turn into, from behind you. Align your front with the fronts of all other vehicles. Be courteous and leave enough room on the Driver side, so that RV can open their doors.

B. Back to back parking- our locations are set up at 60 degree parking. Also, they are setup for the driver to back in on their side, so they can use the lot next to them for alignment. This way you only have one blind side on the right side backing in. Otherwise you have two blind sides.

We have 20/30/40 foot parking at our location at 26763 Highway 34, Glenwood, IA. Each size has a different width due to how hard it is to park a longer unit at the very front angle of their turn in. 20’s- 10 wide; 30’s- 12 wide; 40’s- 15 wide. Although you could park an RV in any of these sizes, it is easier with a wider width to make the “front” turn. Or ask for an end parking spot, so you are doing a 90 degree parking, but have the whole drive way to back in with, without a turn.

C. Canopy- same issues as others, depending on if 60 degree or 90 degree parking.

D. Enclosed- Really a matter of width and depth. Keep in mind all measurements for storage are relative. For example: A 10 wide x 20 deep x 8 tall unit, with studs, roll up door and door jambs; is really 9 wide x 19 ft 6 inch deep x 7 ½ foot tall. Also if you have a 20 ft boat or Camper, its really 22/23/24 ft depending on Propeller, bumper or front hitch.

E. Surface- Rock or hard surface (concrete/asphalt); If on rock/asphalt put your tongue leg or stabilizer pads on wider pads to spread the weight out. These pads are needed on Asphalt since in hot weather they will sink into the asphalt.

F. Pest control- we put mouse bait out along the fence lines and under the units, mow excess weeds and grass. You should put both rodent and bug control in your unit. Dispose of all food sources, for long term storage. If you want to be really diligent with pest control, don’t park next to overhead lights. They attract bugs at night and then mice underneath. Put scented drier sheets in all compartments and rooms. Open all cabinets and doors.

G. Stabilizers- if doing long term storage put you stabilizers down. Most parking is in an open area and the units can rock and move with the wind. This will also help with taking pressure off your tires so they last longer.

H. Security- Put a lock on the hitch. Although you are in a secure location, RV’s and trailers are the easiest storage to break into or take without notice. Recommend you put in motion sensors or GPS tracking security. Check your vehicle at least twice a month. Most Security systems only maintain footage for 2 weeks due to camera memory capacity.

I. Propane Fuel Tanks- disconnect and store if leaving for long term storage.

J. Electronic Lifts- disconnect the battery if leaving for long term storage.

K. Insurance- most storage unit insurance policies do not cover vehicles. Keep your insurance, just have them adjust your automobile to fewer miles or just comprehensive coverage. Wind, Flood, tornado, Hail, or third party damage or theft can still occur. Traditional insurance coverage, RV’s normally stay a flat rate throughout the year, thus you will still need to maintain full coverage. Or, if you seek out a specific RV or rec vehicle insurance company, you can move in and out of winterization rates.

L. Pricing- use a 30 foot vehicle as an example:

-In the country about a $1 per foot on rock.

-With Paved access and parking spot, this might run $60 to $90

- Enclosed parking this will cost about $120 to $170 for a 30 foot.

- Enclosed parking for a 50 foot, might cost $225 to $350.

The price extremes are the cost of the concrete/asphalt road and the storage bay. Also the longer the unit the price goes up significantly because it takes more driveway width to park and the type of door changes in both size and type (remote operated). A 50 ft RV will require about a 70 foot wide driveway to back in.

We are only addressing the long term Parking portion of storage. Other items are specific to each vehicle such as water clean out, Tire/window shades, etc.

Quick non Parking list:

Wheel/tire covers; Vehicle cover.

Remove and store your tires.

Store with a full fuel tank to prevent condensation

Add fuel stabilizers

Place RV completely off the ground to prevent flat spots on your tires, if left for a long time.

Cover your HVAC, skylights, vents and windows to prevent exposure to sun and breakdown.

Boats leave your plug out, whether covered or not.

@Robert Tinker

Here are some exercises to help you find a location to check out.

Get on Sparefoot or Google.  Prefer Sparefoot since they show you the price.

Type in Round Rock/Austin/Temple/Waco/Killeen or just type in one of them.  Then in the upper left of Sparefoot you will see a drop down with vehicles, RV or boats, doesn't really matter, pick one.   On the map you can scroll between the towns.  As you get over them, there locations will show up on the map.

Round Rock/Austin are the same market.  Normally in Selfstorage you hear about your 1 to 3 mile market.  RV/Boat storage market range is even further, up to 20 miles.  Because there isn't as much competition.  Vehicle storage can't compete profitably when compared to Self Storage, "generally" speaking.

On the sparefoot page on the left side you can select covered, open, enclosed, etc.  I would pick uncovered and outdoor covered (canopy).  The cost of enclosed is huge and more risky.  Being in Texas with a lot of drill rod, if you have a welding friend with a high lift, I would look to do Canopy parking.  Need some shade down there.  

Back to looking at Google maps, what I am about to say isn't very scientific. You could go around and count, then compare to population.  But lets do this quick.  

Round Rock/Austin- lot of competition, plus your land is going to be higher.

Temple/Waco/Killeen- less competition.

Next look at the map and the competition closer.  You want to "out position" them.  Keep in mind most of them were built as "Self Storage" locations and not as RV/Boat locations.  They will want to be closer to the population and their land will be more expensive and harder to find a zoned location.  If they are doing vehicle storage it is more of Name calling.  Example: A 10 x 20 can be both self storage and Vehicle storage.  Beyond that, most self storage only being 8 1/2 foot tall or so wide, a 10 x 30 or 10 x 40 storage unit can't handle RV's and boats.

Recreation areas/cheaper land:  The way you beat your competition is to build closer to the Recreation areas or on routes to them, from the populations. Most people would prefer to not have to drag their RV or Boat back "into" town, especially if it is on the way to their primary rec area.  Also the land and rent will be cheaper out there.  "Out position".

Your Market:   Boats and RV's are the same thing.  Don't get into Enclosed right off the bat.  A lot of money and risk.  Your in the 30 to 40 foot range.  With some 20's.  Don't do the 50's.  This is for "A" class motor homes, which there are not a lot of.  Also if I buy a $250,000 to $1mm "A" class home, I want enclosed.

Don't look at the 20 foot vehicle storage, that won't be your decisive market.  

Mix:  equal parking 20/30/40 foot spaces.  

Zoning:

Read my Zoning I3? post.

Setup:

Read my Parking post.

Security:

Read my Security post.

 Financing:

Read my post on "Broad discussion on Financing".  Covers SBA.

Subject to in depth research, I like Belton, 317/36 intersection, 340/84, small towns/intersections between populations and recreation area.

Another business opportunity.  Your near Ft Hood, in Killeen.  I would look at RV/pontoon boat rentals near the lakes.  Especially if you can buy some land close by to stage/store them.  Require them to take out insurance.  

Good luck.  I'll attach some more info in a minute.

28 August 2020, 03:41 PM1. Retaining Wall finished on the large wall and a curved wall. Still one left to do at the front but not to big. The large wall was about 380 feet long and 3 to 5 feet high.
2. You can note the oats and brome grass has started to sprout on the side hills. This is helping with soil erosion and to make it a smooth lawnmower ride with no ruts.
3. Dirt excavators are set to come back on Mon/Tuesday to finish up. Their owner who rolled the Earth scraper and got crushed by it, is out of the hospital. Working on his rehabilitation. Shoulder/armed healed, internal organs okay, and needs to rehabilitate with his hips.
4. Permit got held up. The sewer line for the apartment line above us runs through our property. Used to be owned by the same owner. They never recorded an easement for their private sewer line. City would not issue permit until I put an easement in. Another $2,000 for the engineer to draw up and record. I was okay with tearing out, but City Engineer said the apartment would win in court since this pre-existed the split. Didn't want to tell him that the city should have required it 10 years ago when the two pieces were subdivided.
5. Ordering half the buildings on Monday, once permit is signed off. Will build half this year, since I am going to let some of the ground settle over the winter and compact.
Slow but sure. If you don't have your own construction company you have to work with all of the subcontractors.

Noted above we were having to segregate this land through a subdivision process for Financing purposes (SBA doesn't finance projects where other companies will be operating out of them).  Had the City Council meeting last night.  Did a brief reason on why this subdivision is occurring.  Passed.

Now just waiting on Appraisal.  Then go back to SBA show them they have enough collateral and to get their sign off on releasing this portion of the land.

Kind of anxious on the appraisal.  Bought this 8 acres for about $20,000 per acre as "farm ground".  Should appraise a lot higher since it has been cleared, levelled, filled in, and Water/Sewer/Electric are now on site; and put to commercial use.  This will account for a good portion of our Collateral going into the next phases of both of these properties.

Either way, pay $5,000 to $10,000 for a Trust lawyer to set up a trust and go through the tax ramifications.
There are way to many questions to be asked and answered through this forum.  Both from a Family and business standpoint.

For example, if this was an income producing property, then he could do a Sale and leaseback from/with his kids.  Good short-term and long-term ramifications for both groups.

If he is at this stage in his life and is open to investment discussions, and I assume based on this gift he has other assets, he needs to go through a checklist:

1.  Long-term health policy

2.  Long-term assisted living policy.

3. End of life, Legal, health, access POA to assets/bank accounts versus in court, etc.

4.  Grandkids college

5.  His accountant should pull together all documentation for "Basis" on his assets.

Don't chip away at the discussion.  Go to an estate/Trust attorney.