All Forum Posts by: Alex Otto

No problem @Jackson Abbeduto, let us know what you hear -- I am definitely curious about the exception to the 2500 sq ft requirement for R2 lots if they are between 4000 and 5000 sq ft.

Regarding the comment above on fire sprinklers -- the state ADU law says that they should only be required if the main house as sprinklers, and that will be the case whether its a conversion, an addition, or a fully ground up unit.

Hey @Devon Yates.

We work on garage conversion and new construction ADUs, and we see a lot of these detached 2+2 car garages behind multiunit buildings.

They are almost always in pretty bad shape structurally -- footings aren't deep enough, roof framing is too small and too widely spaces, roof framing is running side-to-side rather than front-to-back (so we have to put beams in and additional footings in when we remove portions of the walls that separate parking bays), ceiling height is too low, etc.

The amount of surgery required just to convert them is pretty extensive, and in most cases for garage conversions like this, we recommend tearing down and rebuilding in the same footprint anyways. The good thing is that in LA City, you can tear down everything except for 1' of wall, and then rebuild in the same footprint while still permitting it as a conversion! This makes your permit process much faster and reduces requirements for things like solar.

With that in mind, whether you convert the garage into an ADU or build a 2nd story on top for an ADU, you might be tearing down and rebuilding either way. That might change how you think about the cost differences between converting vs adding a 2nd story.

Another thing to consider is that the second story will have to respect the minimum required setbacks for ADUs, whereas anything converted or rebuilt within the original footprint and building volume of the garage would not have to respect the minimum required setbacks. For example, if your garage had its north and east walls up against the north and east property line, the 2nd story would have to have its north and east walls set 4' back from the north and east property lines. This might limit your layout options, though a talented designer would find a way to make this work.

Just wanted to add on:

There's a bit of a gray area here regarding where JADUs are allowed.

In one part of the gov't code, it says they are permitted on lots with existing or proposed single family dwellings.

In another part of the code, it says they are allowed on " zoned for single-family residences with a single-family residence built, or proposed to be built"

You should clarify with the city whether your lot (which is R2, and therefore zoned for both single and multifamily, and only has a SFH on it) would qualify for a JADU.

Hey @Jackson Abbeduto,

Here's what I think you can do: build a 500 sq ft addition to your main house (assuming you have enough remaining allowable floor area left -- more on that below), and convert it to a JADU. There might be a way to get a second SFH on the lot too but I'm not 100% sure.

Here's some more info:

Second SFH:

I'm assuming you're in LA City. There's a great little summary pdf that will help you understand their zoning requirements: https://planning.lacity.org/od...

The table does say that you need 2500 sq ft of property area per dwelling unit, however if you go to the zoning code, there is an exception:

"Provided, that where a lot has a width of less than 50 feet or an area of less than 5,000 square feet and was held under separate ownership or was of record at the time this article became effective, the lot may be occupied by any use permitted in this section, except those uses requiring more than 5,000 square feet of lot area. In no case, however, shall a two-family dwelling or two-family dwellings be allowed on a lot with an area of less than 4,000 square feet."

I'm not entirely sure if this means you actually can build a second SFH, but you should do a virtual appointment with a planner and bring this up and see what they say.

The <5000 sq ft lots you're seeing with duplexes on them may have been built before current zoning laws were put in place. If they're new construction though, then they are either using that exception above or perhaps those lots did get a variance (fyi variances take something like 9 months and cost something like 10-20k to get, if I'm remembering correctly).

ADUs on Multifamily Lots:

The state law for ADUs does allow up to two ADUs on a multifamily lot, but it has to have a multifamily structure already on it, and their definition of multifamily is 2 or more attached dwelling units. So, unfortunately, this won't work for you right now either.

JADUs:

It looks like your only other option is to build a JADU, but a JADU must be converted from existing permitted square footage. Therefore, you first would need to build an addition, and then convert it to a JADU. JADUs can be a max size of 500 sq ft, and there is an owner occupancy requirement (meaning, you would have to sign an affidavit stating that you live on site.) To figure out if you can build a 500 sq ft addition, you will have to do the following: take the lot area, subtract the required setbacks, multiply that remaining area (called the Buildable Area) by 3 (because that's the FAR for R2 zones in LA City), and then subtract the area of your house and ADU. My guess is you will have more than enough remaining area to build the 500 sq ft addition.

Our company (Otto ADU) does ADUs and JADUs, as both garage conversions and new construction. We haven't done anything exactly like this before, but we are always open to new challenges. Even if we're not the right fit for the project (we're more design oriented and we do all design, permit, construction management, and procurement), we can try to answer questions and help you out.

Throwing in Snap ADU as well -- they are SD-based, they have everything in house, they're design-build, and they seem very transparent about process and pricing. They even have basic plans + pricing up online so you can figure out what works with your budget. Design-wise, it's nothing fancy, but it could work for you.

@Chris Morris It's hard to comment without knowing what's included in their services. Are they doing just design? Are they permitting? Are they going to help you assess bids and do construction management? Will they manage consultants? Will they select and procure specific finishes and fixtures? etc.

Another way to assess the fee is to just do some simple math + make some assumptions. $40k divided by $150/h = 266h, 266h divided by 8h per day is about 33 days. If you think your architect will be working 33 days on your project (which, if they are doing all that scope above and/or if this is their first ADU, they will be), then it starts to sound more like a reasonable fee.

I'll say that I'm biased because I'm in architecture and design, and having gone through the process of designing and building an ADU in LA a bunch of times, I know how much work they can take, especially for people who care about design or who haven't gone through the ADU process before.

Hey @Jose Herrera! 

From our experience designing and building ADUs across LA City/County, the $/sf of new construction is far, far lower than the $/sf for buying anything, so my gut reaction is to just continue developing the land you have. I guess it depends on your long term strategy though.

In terms of what exactly you can develop on your lot, I would look into the difference between adding ADUs vs adding regular residential units. The setback requirements for ADUs are typically a lot smaller than for regular residential units, which might allow you to squeeze larger units onto your lot. I'd also look into what kinds of development fees will be levied against your project by the authority having jurisdiction -- ADUs under a certain size can avoid some of these fees.

The CalHFA $40k ADU grant program could also help cover some of the pre-development costs for an ADU. I know the program is backlogged right now, but if you're serious about building an ADU, then it's worth looking into it. A few groups/people (e.g. Maxable, How to ADU) have recorded some youtube videos on it that are helpful.

The downside to ADUs in this case would be that, depending on the # of units already on your lot, you might not get the 2 units, or you might have to make one attached to the primary structure and one detached. However, you could only determine this by looking at your zoning, how many units are currently on your property (and whether they are physically attached to one another), and your jurisdiction's ADU ordinances.

Hey @Kha Cao. Is your client trying to split and sell under SB-9, or another preexisting subdivision method?

@A.J. Draven Do you have any photos or some plan/elevation drawings or sketches?