All Forum Posts by: Alex Otto

@Michael Adamo Glad to hear that the city was helpful + that they reinforced some of the things people have mentioned here.

In terms of SB 9's popularity, here's a recent report by the Terner Center on SB 9's first year: https://ternercenter.berkeley....

It looks like LA City had 211 applications for SB 9 second units, but only 28 applications for SB 9 lot splits. I think this makes sense -- it takes a ton of knowledge and effort to go through this process. Usually only developers (or aspirational developers!) have that knowledge (or the desire to go out and learn through doing), but developers are really only able to do the SB 9 second units due to owner occupancy restrictions for SB 9 lot splits. 

Hey @Nick Larsson! As you're thinking through options, if any of them involve demolishing an existing residence, I would be mindful of SB-8 and how it's being applied by whichever jurisdiction you're in.

For example, if you were in Los Angeles City, SB-8 would say that if you demolish the existing SFR as part of your redevelopment, you need to verify the income of whoever has lived in the house for the last 5 years. Then, if any of their income levels were "low" or "very low" (or if you just can't get the income level from any past tenants/occupants), you would have to replace it with an affordable unit. Now, LA City's documents are conflicting on whether or not this applies to owner-occupants or just tenants, but the CA Gov't Code says just renters. 

Note that the Gov't code says that the affordability requirements don't apply to a project that just demolishes and replaces an SFR ("for purposes of a development project that consists of a single residential unit on a site with a single protected unit, “replace” shall mean that the protected unit is replaced with a unit of any size at any income level."), but LA City is less clear on that...

Anyways, that example above hopefully illustrates that, depending on who has lived in your property and how your jurisdiction is implementing SB-8, you may prefer to choose one development option over the other, and you may want to phase any multi-unit development rather than do it all at once. Thinking again about the example of LA City above, if it were me, I might try and permit any work on the existing house as an alteration or addition, which would mean that SB-8 would never be triggered. Alternatively, I would permit the demo/rebuild of the SFR first, then separately permit any additional development.

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As for the concerns regarding ADUs (or any other SFRs on the lot) and access/privacy, I would argue that the job of any good designer would be to make both units feel like they had clear, private access, great outdoor space, no/minimal windows staring from one unit to the other, etc. Depending on your lot size/shape, that might be difficult, but it's definitely an achievable design goal for many projects.

Hey @Michael Adamo, apologies for the delay in responding.

That's great that you've set a call up. Is it a City Planning: Public Counter - Consultations / General Planning Questions appointment? Or are you speaking with an LADBS Zoning & Building Code Engineer? Both can be helpful.

Either way, appointments are typically time-limited, so you won't necessarily have the ability to dive deeply into everything, and depending on who you speak to, you may not get concrete/confident answers. My advice would be to keep making appointments and speaking to different people, as you will get different info with every call.

In terms of specific questions, if it were me, I would first start by understanding what development scenarios are allowed at the same time as I study what the building massing would be for each development scenario. Unfortunately, a planner or code engineer isn't going to be able to provide that holistic analysis during a call.

Maybe it's worth asking them what development scenarios could be built "by-right" vs what would require a potentially lengthy entitlements/permitting process, what roadblocks or delays you could potentially run into in any of the development scenarios, whether they have any sense of timelines and costs associated with any special requirements for any of the development scenarios, and if there are any tricky requirements brought about by pursuing any of the scenarios. For example, if any of the scenarios require you to demolish the existing SFR, you might have issues with the type of required replacement unit underneath SB-8 (the type of unit required depends on the income levels of whoever is living there currently, even if it wasn't rented)

Good luck, and keep us posted on what you end up doing!

@Account Closed We have spoken with Byer (https://www.byergeo.com/about) in the past and they were always helpful and informative. We haven't had to use them though so I can't vouch for their work.

Hey @Michael Adamo. Glad the info was helpful. In terms of the additional stuff you're looking for, much of that would be included in something like a feasibility study, or at the very least, a consultation with a designer. If we narrowed your focus to ADUs, SB9, and AB2097, this is something that I or someone at our company could do (for a fee). If you're interested in that, please send me a DM and I can give you my contact information. 

Regarding your question on cost savings, there are a lot of interconnected things here -- you mention materials, building shape, construction methods, amenities, and sustainability measures. All of these would be addressed by a designer as you move through the early phases of your design process. They should be able to help you prioritize what's most important, and then help you think through potential cost implications.

@Michael Adamo

Zoning
Here's a good intro PDF from LA City Planning on R1 variation zones: https://planning.lacity.org/or... -- if you scroll down to page 7, you'll see more info on "R1R" Rear-Mass Variation zones, which is what your R1R3 zoning falls under. If you were developing a new SFR on the lot, you would have to abide by these rules. The rules basically limit the volume or mass of the building on the lot, especially at the front of the lot. Based on the diagram on page 7, it looks like you wouldn't have any issues building a 2 story building on the rear of the lot, but at the front of the lot, a 2 story building would potentially have to step back its second story in response to the "encroachment plane". A designer or architect can help you work through a design that abides by these rules.

For ADUs, these R1R3-specific rules cannot stop you from building an 800 sq ft unit, because the state forces every city to let you build at least an 800 sq ft unit. You can go larger (up to 1200 sq ft) per LA City rules, but you may have to abide by the R1R3 rules.

For SB9, if you are looking to split the lot, you would first have to go through that lot split process with LA City Planning. Then you would permit a duplex on the rear lot with LADBS and build it. Simultaneously, you could either convert the existing SFR on the front lot to a duplex, or build a second SFR on the front lot, or potentially demo the house and rebuild a new duplex on the front lot (demolition has some restrictions, which you can look up on the city's website). The law allows you to build each of the units as 800 sq ft without having to abide by the R3 rules, but if the units are any larger, then I believe you would have to abide by the R1R3 rules. Note that, in this example, you would not be allowed to attach the rear lot duplex to the front lot SFR/duplex.

Here are two posts on the Homestead website about the SB9 process (I would confirm any steps w/ the city or any designer/architect you're working with, as things change all the time and your lot may have specific requirements): https://www.myhomestead.com/bl... and https://www.myhomestead.com/bl...

In terms of cost savings, could you elaborate more on what sorts of savings you're curious about? Building a greater amount of square footage on a lot all at once will likely lower the avg cost/sq ft for your project, but since you would be building multiple dwelling units (each with their own kitchen, bathrooms, utilities, etc.), the cost/sq ft is definitely going to be higher than if you just built a massive SFR on the lot.

Hey @Michael Adamo

I can only speak to smaller scale infill development on the property, and I think @Nabil Suleiman has some great ideas here. Hopefully I can help.

Your zoning is R1R3RG, which is essentially R1 (single family) with some additional limitations on the overall size/volume (that's the R3 part) and a requirement that parking be in the rear in a garage (that's the RG part). Based on the zip code, some of the other things you mentioned seeing on ZIMAS don't actually impact what you can develop -- the "ZI-2462 Modifications to SF Zones and SF Zone Hillside Area Regulations" only applies to Hillside Areas (which you aren't in); the "ZI-2452 Transit Priority Area in the City of Los Angeles" doesn't really apply since there wouldn't necessarily be a CEQA evaluation of your project; AB 2334 doesn't apply because you aren't building 100% affordable parking.

R1 lots have a few basic development options: SB9, or add ADUs

SB9
You can find a ton of great SB9-related information on https://www.myhomestead.com/le... -- if you dig a little, you can find info that's specific to LA City as well: https://www.myhomestead.com/sb...

Your specific SB9 strategy will depend both on how the house currently sits on the property, and what your development goals are. The easiest thing I can think of is to just add a second SFR in the rear of your lot (either attached or detached from your main house). You can even design the new SFR such that you can add ADUs too (either attached or detached).

Your distance to transit means that, under both the SB 9 bill and the recently-enacted AB 2097 (which you mentioned above), you won't have to provide any parking. It's unclear to me if you can eliminate any required parking for the front house, but even if you can't, a replacement garage could easily be integrated into the design of the new SFR.

Note that the zip code you gave has a lot of properties in the Methane Zone -- whatever new construction you do will have to get soil testing done and then will need some sort of methane mitigation system designed in. This is not a massive expense ($3k for test and design), but it could impact the design of the slab and foundation for any new construction -- the methane needs to basically be taken from the soil below the new building and vented out to above your building.

ADU
Build an ADU in the rear of your lot, either by converting the garage (w/ optional addition), by demolishing and rebuilding the garage in the same footprint (w/ optional addition), or by demolishing the garage and building a new ADU (with 4' setbacks from side and rear property lines).

I know you said your neighbor had issues with renting their ADU, but I think with good design, you can make even a smaller space a desirable place to live. A 2 car garage conversion might make for a tight layout, but with even a small 150 sq ft addition, you can make a great 1 bed unit. 

How to Decide?
There are pros and cons to each. SB9 seems like a more powerful tool, but it's relatively new, so it will be a bit of a discovery process for you. ADUs are easier to permit, but they result in an accessory unit (not an SFR). In both cases, you would end up with a separate housing unit that you could live in or rent (long term or medium term). 

Either way, I would first look at the amount of available space in your rear yard (measure the lot width, which is probably 50' or so, and the distance from the rear property line to your house, which is hopefully >35') and see if you even have the space to build a 1 or 2 story unit that has your desired bed/bath count. 

I would then take the square footage and multiply by $400 to get an extremely rough sense of your budget (there are many ways to increase and decrease that cost). 

If you think you can build what you might want, then start reaching out to designers, design-builders, etc. with skillsets that match what you're looking to do and talk with them about early-stage feasibility studies.

Good luck! I think what you're doing for your family is admirable. Development can be a slog but the payoff (financial, yes, but emotional too) will be big.

@Yuval Hala

Here's my perspective (as someone whose company is more design-oriented and designs, permits, and construction manages garage conversion and ground up ADUs and JADUs across LA County -- in 2022 we had 30+ of these projects).

Permits
- Timeline will depend on where you are located in the county. Technically, the latest round of ADU bills should speed up permitting time everywhere (the bills say jurisdictions have 60 days to approve or deny), but I really don't think it's actually going to get faster because these departments are understaffed. This is especially true if you're in unincorporated LA County or in an anti-housing jurisdiction.

- LA City garage conversions are fast to permit (4-6 weeks once a plan checker is assigned) if your drawings are good and you aren't in any special districts (e.g. Hillside, Methane, HPOZ, etc. -- although even if you are in HPOZ, there's very little they can legally do to stop you do an ADU, especially if you aren't doing any substantial demolition, and there are ways around some of the hillside restrictions depending on where you are)

Cost

- It will depend on the condition of your garage's structure (footings, slab, wall framing, roof framing), the distance that's required for trenching, any electrical panel upgrades or location changes, and your design intent
- Check that your garage has footings that are deep enough below grade (12" min in LA City, 18"-24" elsewhere) -- if not, you'll need to underpin or rebuild them
- Check that you have concrete curbs, as these will help stop water intrusion from adjacent soil -- if not, you will want to find a way to add them, either by making the contractor do surgery on the building, or by adding them as part of a larger demo+rebuild strategy for the entire garage
- Look at your slab. Is it level and uncracked? If so, great. If not, you may have to repair/replace. Either way, adding a new topping slab is always helpful.
- Look at your roof. Is it flat, gable, or hip? Flat roofs, in our experience, are almost always too low and poorly built. Gable roofs are easy to remediate. Hip roofs take a bit more work to remediate. Additionally, if you want to vault the ceiling, gable is easier to do than hip roof.
- The numbers from @Bruce Woodruff are what we see on slightly more design-oriented projects (and that total number would include the fees we charge to do design, permitting, manage procurement, manage construction, etc.). The number from @Rick Albert sounds close if you are planning on self managing the project, but 90 days for building is not something we have ever seen.

City Fees
- You can contact the city and find these out. LA City has a permit fee calculator that will help. $2500-3000 for garage conversions in LA City, LA County, Pasadena, and South Pas is normal. Glendale is double that easily.  
- Remember that "city fees" really include plan check fees, planning dept fees, clearance fees, fees to issue the permit itself, etc.

Construction Time
- If your contractor is organized and working on multiple ADU jobs, 6 months is reasonable to get to punch list for LA City. Other jurisdictions can have very frustrating requirements for inspections (e.g. can only book 1 inspection at a time, can only book the next inspection when the current one is passed, min. 2 weeks to get an inspector out, etc.) that will slow down even the most organized contractor. Issues with utility companies can also cause 1+ month delays.

Value Added
- I see the same argument all the time from people outside of Los Angeles that ADUs don't add the same value as a typical residential unit. It is true that ADUs (especially garage conversion ADUs) are not SFRs -- they have different rules applied to them (like @Dan H.'s comment re: STR) and the utilities don't have to be cleanly separated from the main house's utilities -- but appraisers look to comps, and if there aren't comps for properties w/ ADUs, appraisers don't always know how to appraise them. We are seeing more and more that as more comps come online, the projects we work on end up getting pretty good appraisals. If the trend continues, I don't think there will such a huge penalty for ADUs vs SFRs in terms of added value, especially within LA.
- I think Dan makes a lot of great points, but following his advice in point 1, I have searched BP for ADU appraisals in LA City. There aren't many posts, and those that exist are old (2021 seems to have been a hot year for this question) and usually have the same people responding. I hope there will be more posts on this in the future with new people sharing the appraised value of their ADUs, and in the meantime, I would encourage you to be proactive about getting the value of your ADU appraised fairly if that's a concern for you.

@Jackson Abbeduto They are a busy bunch of people over there. It can be annoying, but sometimes you just have to keep calling and/or making virtual appointments until you get through.

Regarding your question, an R2 lot can have two detached or attached units. It's only the multifamily provisions of the ADU ordinances that define multifamily as two attached units (see page 12 of the HCD ADU handbook for this definition)  -- I am not really clear on why this is the case, and it's entirely possibly that this definition of multifamily won't last... but for now, if you want to add the 2 ADUs, then your two main residential units would need to be attached. 

@Jackson Abbeduto I ended up looking into this exact situation for another property we might work on -- the city planner I spoke with said that you could add the second SFR on the R2 lot as long as it was over 4000 sq ft. I then also spoke with an LADBS zoning person, who said that you can submit your permit application for the second SFR, and as long as it's attached to the existing SFR, you could simultaneously submit for 2 ADUs! Pretty neat.

I'm following up with another planner to confirm, but thought I would let you know my preliminary findings. 

In terms of @Rick Albert's concerns, typically those should be addressed by whoever is designing your ADU. If they aren't thinking about privacy, access, and the quality of outdoor experiences on your site, you should definitely find someone new! In an ideal world, good design and smart infill development enhance the value that (potential) tenants see in your property.