Oceanpointe Investments LLC

[Todd Burton]

I believe this will the be the final and definitive word regarding Oceanpointe Investments LLC, Bert Whalen and by association, their closely allied business partner, Morris Invest.

The Indiana Attorney General has concluded their investigation of Oceanpointe Investments LLC and, along with the Indiana Real Estate Commission, they have “Permanently Revoked” the Real Estate license of Oceanpointe and Bert Whalen as of 12/18/17. Please note; per Indiana Code: 25-34.1-3-2; no person shall, for consideration, sell, buy, trade, exchange, option, lease, rent, manage, list, or appraise real estate or negotiate or offer to perform any of those acts in Indiana or with respect to real estate situated in Indiana, without a license.

Here is a  that has the case details as well as information regarding Mr. Bert Whalen which includes “Renewal Fraud” of his Indiana Real Estate License.

[Ross Denman]

I'm not even certain if Ericka is who she claims to be.

1. The profile on BP was just created before the post and has no other activity.
2. After a Google search, there is no apparent social media footprint. No Facebook, no Google, no LinkedIn, no Twitter. Sure there are people who don't use social media much, but when working in this kind of business, it's rather unusual.
3. Searching for Bert Whalen's license shows revoked. Searching Ericka Thomas only shows a Nursing License.
4. I just spoke to a client who has 4 properties with them and is selling them back. He was even in their office last week. He said that he doesn't know of an Ericka in the office. He named 4 other people that work in the office, but doesn't even know an Ericka (who has supposedly talked to most anyone who has a Morris property managed by Oceanpointe.)

It doesn't really matter whether or not she's actually real, but I am certain that they are feeling the strain from the clients that are speaking out against them and looking to slow the bleeding. I'm less concerned about who holds their license than the fact that their clients are failing, upset, and in a bad spot overall. My goal isn't even for new business at this point (I'm not sure that I want most of their business,) I just want to stop more people from getting involved with companies like this.

[Joel Wilmoth]

@Jay Hinrichs What @erika thomas  states in that post is where I met my dead end.  Just becasue Whalen is not licensed does not mean OP cant continue to exist.  They need a Managing Broker.  I hope that is disclosed because I have not been able to find anything (granted I spent just a simple few minutes) finding their name as licensed or as a corporation.   

Well I guess now we know they are paying attention to this thread. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Joel Wilmoth  well until someone spits it out .. who knows.. I think most of the people that have been harmed don't care at this point are licking their wounds and running to other PM's like yourself.

so there will be a new crop of investors who do not get on BP or social media.

I got a pm from another one who shared a contract with me on a property in another state that morris is brokering and it was again one of the worst contracts I had ever seen and it was a larger transaction quarter millon.. guy who sent it.. did not know who the seller was contract had NO due diligence clause in it .. no subject to anything.. 10% cash deposit which he did not know where it went.. I mean really who does this.. and how does he find people that are so trusting in todays age.. I was frankly appalled.

I am not one to run off to a lawyer but my advice to that guy was get a lawyer.. I looked at the property its over priced by double.. LOL of course.

[David Brown]

Hey folks, as a 'client' of OceanPointe I can confirm that Ericka is indeed a manager there. I would suggest that any reference to communication issues being in the past, 'valued customers' etc etc is to be taken with a grain of salt. It's still business as usual in the sense that customers are being treated like crap, ignored etc etc. We are in our last month of a contract with OP and are getting the usual runaround. We got 10% of our monthly rent this month and any communication is being ignored. I plan on updating the forums with our whole experience when we get through with everything but we are in the process of legal action so need to keep our heads down for now. I can say that it goes beyond OP and Bert Whalen and Morris. We were brought in by another individual making all kinds of guarantees and promises and are now having to take legal action to get even the most basic of fixes done. Luckily it's all documented.  Reading this we are not as badly impacted as some folks out there and I'll be intrigued to see what else, and who else comes out of the wood work. @Ericka - if you are reading this, it would be great if someone would answer our multiple emails and calls of the last 10 days to explain where the missing 90% of the rent went

[Ritch Bonisa]

Probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg on this. Most people are too embarrassed to tell others when things like this happen.

I think it's a great thing that there are those who have helped dissect this thing in a public forum. There have been very experienced people who have helped raise pertinent questions and given high level analysis on this thing. They didn't go into it with an agenda, a "bashing" attitude, and aren't trying to sell a book or some sort of a get rich system.  They have tried to assist and educate.

Thanks for that guys.  I'd mention names, but I'd be afraid I might leave someone out.  You guys know who you are.  I continue to read the comments on this every day, because the advice and analysis is so good. 

Every new investor should be forced to read these threads.  There is real education happening here.   

[Mike D'Arrigo]

Originally posted by @Matt K.:

@Jay Hinrichs

https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investi...

the plot thickens, from 2 years ago...

Call 6 Investigates visited the office of Ocean Point Property, but no one was there. The company formerly oversaw at least 70 properties in Indianapolis for Texas-based Olympic Capital Group. That business dropped Ocean Point as property manager – apparently before they finished repairs to Scott's home.

 Just when you think the plot can't get any thicker. Should we start a pool to guess the day someone finally goes to jail? 

[Mike D'Arrigo]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

@Todd Burton@Ross Denman@Joel Wilmoth

Hey guys it took me all of 5 minutes to check on Mr. Whalen who I guess owned or owns Oceanpointe.

from public records what appears to happen is there was a series of Alcohol related offenses both driving and water craft and it appears even a stint in the county jail.

what the state is saying is that he lied on his application and in addition he took rent money in from one tenant and did not put it in his trust account or did not even have a trust account.

so two violations one  lying on your application and trust fund violations.

his personal license according to the pleadings has been permanently revoked.. And the order was upheld.

Now the question is who was his Broker or was he a broker.. and who ACTUALLY owns oceanpointe.

have to dig a little deeper into that.. but its pretty clear and its TOTALLY public record. That anyone can access with about 4 clicks of their mouse if they care to.

From my recollection of the court pleadings, he was the broker. I could be wrong though.

[Caleb Heimsoth]

Funny how most people on this thread saying good things all have less than 5 posts.

[Michael Thompson]

I believe when Erika says she is an employee of Oceanpointe.  Even if their entity is still intact that entity can't manage properties without a licensed broker.  Everyone managing properties there is technically in violation of IC 25-34.1-3-2.  What guts and/or ignorance it must take to stick around there as an employee and be in violation of Indiana Code.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Michael Thompson:

I believe when Erika says she is an employee of Oceanpointe.  Even if their entity is still intact that entity can't manage properties without a licensed broker.  Everyone managing properties there is technically in violation of IC 25-34.1-3-2.  What guts and/or ignorance it must take to stick around there as an employee and be in violation of Indiana Code.

the amazing thing to me is there is not 50 complaints at the state about Morris and his ground team..  

[Jeremy Buttell]

Can someone please take a stab at answering my post above? 

The original post linked to a document that's from 2015 and is linked off of someones personal drive.

The image posted on the original page makes no mention of Bert, although the OP specifically states that it does. Am I missing something?

People have posted that there are documents on the state website - anyone care to post those and/or links and instructions for people in the forum to see them? Where exactly does one lookup a license? I'd like to see the records everyone keeps talking about, should be easy to find and share yes?

That TV News story - I thought there was a new one, that's the same one I've seen for the past couple years. Was there something new or just rehashing an old story?

[Todd Burton]

@Jeremy Buttell:

Hello Jeremy. The document linked is from 2015 and is associated with the letter received from the AG's office. The best I can make sense of it is that they took 2 years to complete the investigation and issue the letter. The AG's investigations do not move very quickly. The letter from Dec. 2017 specifically says the license of Oceanpoint Investments LLC is permanently revoked. The supporting documents from 2015 say the license of Bert Whalen is permanently revoked. I have been in communication with the Deputy AG and have been trying to get clarification. I am 100% sure Bert Whalen's license is permanently revoked. Bert's license status was actually "expired and non-renewable" prior to being permanently revoked. The question now is if Oceanpointe Investments license has also actually been revoked as stated in the letter issued by the AG's office. Here is a link to Indiana Professional Licensing Agency to search and verify a license.

[Ross Denman]

For everyone looking for final documentation of the license situation... here is a link to Indiana's Professional Licensing Agency for License number SP39500817. http://www.in.gov/apps/pla/litigation/pdfs.aspx?lic=SP39500817 It is linked to 3 separate PDF files regarding the permanent revocation of this license. It was affirmed and upheld on Jan 24th.

Here is another link to another PDF file for the IREC calendar deliberating on the matter. https://calendarmedia.blob.core.windows.net/assets...

Lastly, here are the minutes from that IREC meeting affirming the judges panel. https://calendarmedia.blob.core.windows.net/assets...

[Ross Denman]

As far as links to the news articles:

Nov 11th, 2015 https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investi...

July 10th, 2017 https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/07/10/ind...

Nov 3rd, 2017 https://www.theindychannel.com/news/call-6-investi...

[Jeremy Buttell]

Thanks Todd, but I wasn't able to find any way to locate the status of Oceanpoint on that website.

Ross, thanks for the link. This seems to again be related to the individual, but I guess the question is how this would affect Oceanpoint considering likely comprised of more than just the individual in question. Sometimes people maintain licenses/status that becomes less relevant when they're operating within a corporate structure.

It is odd though in that one news story, that article about the registry implies landlords aren't available so they're skirting the law. I question how prevalent that is. The city can get through to me and as a landlord I'd be at risk of the city taking more drastic action if I didn't respond to the violations.  Who thumbs their nose to the violations? Is that seriously a viable option? The city just keeps sending letters and then shrugs if no one responds?  I'd imagine the indy gov has more teeth than that?

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Jeremy Buttell  cities have multiple ways to enforce liens.. they can lien you put a lien on title that's the most common.. and fines just keep accruing interest and penalties.. if its bad enough they can literally bull doze your house.. I have had it happen to me personally :(

[Alec McCullough]

Grab your popcorn this thread was like watching a good movie. The scandals! The plot twists! Audio death threats! And Jay Hinrichs dropping education bombs as usual. The sad part is all the people that will be duped out of their hard earned money. I've had my experience with some bad property managers (licensed) stole 2 months of rent from me I filed a complaint with the AG's office and the real estate commission and never heard a word back from either. C'est la vie in an industry where lessons can be very very expensive I can consider myself lucky it was a cheap one. 

[Hoori A.]

Thank You Everyone and appreciate your inputs. I wish I could turn time back and fix what we did.

We have bought 5 properties from Morris Invest/Ocean Pointe and are in the same boat and would like to join others who are legally going for a lawsuit against this cheating. We have invested our life saving so far and want to fix it at any cost.

We bought 2 rehabs and 3 new. The 2 rehabs were completed and we forced the inspection on them and our Inspector says they have not done anything called rehab. There is mold, leaks and everything breaking apart. We had patience so long but now. We are looking to work with a lawyer to get our money back or get these properties in the rent ready condition and as promised.

David if you have been talking to a lawyer and would like more people to join , Please contact us. We would join the effort.

Thanks

[Tanya R Dullen]

I was trying to locate the email address for Ocean Pointe, and came across this thread, and it opened my eyes to another world.  I have just had to move out of an Ocean Pointe property because of the ill repair.  I had rented from them for a little over 4 years, and every year there were repairs that had to be made.  When I first rented from the company formally known as Mt. Helix, everything was fine. Because I do have a Section 8 voucher, an annual inspection is required to make sure that the house is in a livable condition.  The pm would fix what ever was wrong within the first 30 days, which would cause no hiccups in the payments being made in a timely manner. But by the second and third year, it would be 90 days out, with the termination of the contract in jeopardy, they would ask for an extension to make said repairs and everything would return to normal.  By the second going into the third, there was a time when I did not have a pm, (for about 2 or 3 months), there was just a letter on my door stating that someone else was taking over and that I was to pay them, by depositing my rent into a bank account. Not trusting this method, I called and confirmed with Mt. Helix, they confirmed that they were no longer managing the property and to follow whatever instructions were left on the letter, (mind you there was no letterhead, just a generic name, when I goggled said company, it was as though it never existed.)  A month later, I received another note in my door stating that Ocean Pointe was now my pm.  When I went in most of the old staff from Mt. Helix was working in the office, I can assure you that the office manager's name is Doris, she was also the manager at Mt. Helix.  This last inspection was the worst.  July 19, 2017, I had return home from work and flipped the light switch on, something caught on fire inside the light fixture in my dining area, it short circuited everything on the right side of my house.  I called the next day because no one answered the emergency repair phone that evening.  No one was sent to my home until July 28th, on a Saturday.  He removed the fixtures and stated that he would return that following Monday.  My fixture was not fixed until the end of October.  The excuse from the office was that corporate had to approve the repairs.  I do have all documentation from failed inspections.  This is my first post.  I was ahead of my problem with Mt. Helix/ Ocean Pointe and I started repairing my credit, I am able to buy me a house now and not have to deal with this type of headache anymore.  I do want to file a complaint against them as a tenant, but I am not sure where to go to.  They are giving the market a bad name. By the way, Ocean Pointe has moved there offices right around the corner from their previous location. 

[Prudence Meads]

Hmm... let me waste a few moments of my life and put my two cents in. If rookie investors are TROLLING the internet and believe in their hearts for one moment that everything they read on the internet is TRUE, may I suggest that perhaps they should put their money in a nice CD account. As a smart investor, don't rely on forum posts to make investment decisions. What I gather from all of these negative posts is that it seems that Jay and Todd (most notably) have a personal beef with Oceanpointe and Morris Invest and are using this a platform to launch personal attacks and spend an inordinate amount of time googling dirt on them.  It's sad really. So before you waste time googling me to launch an attack, I invest with Morris Invest and Oceanpointe, am happy with them and am richer because of them. I found out about them on a Bigger Pockets podcast, and did my own due diligence from there.  

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Prudence Meads  I have no personal beef.... just know the industry well.. and understand the asset class... and way back in the Jahnke thread a few of the biggest players in the industry chimed in about how the portrail of the product and tenant class was not reality in the real world.

but that's fine if you happy that's great.. unfortuantly your experience seems to be an outlier.

[Todd Burton]

@Prudence Meads:

Hello Prudence-

Glad to hear you're having a positive experience. There is no personal grudge here, at least there wasn't before the owner of Oceanpointe, Bert Whalen, called and left me a voicemail message threatening to kill me! All we want is for the investors to get what they are paying for. At this time we are getting 3 to 6 calls or emails a week from investors who are upset and have lost or are losing money because of Morris Invest and Oceanpointe. This is fact and I can provide any documentation anyone may need to confirm this. I have also been to 4 properties in the last 2 weeks and the quality of rehabs I'm seeing is pathetic. Please check out my profile, I do have a vast depth of experience in rehabbing and this market. Also, if you bother to look through the threads you'll see a letter from the Indiana Attorney General's office stating that the license of Oceanpointe Investments has been permanently revoked. This is not me, Jay or anyone else on here, this is the INDIANA ATTORNEY GENERALS OFFICE. 

The assertion that anyone is going to launch an attack on you is ridiculous. You are entitled to your opinion and again, it's great you are having success but Morris and Oceanpointe do not get a pass.

[Steve K.]

@Prudence Meads Have you personally inspected your properties bought through Morris Invest recently or had a 3rd party inspect them? If so can you share info/pics/video? Can you also provide profit and loss statements from these properties or any evidence as to how they have performed over time? I'm an investor looking into Morris Invest. With all the "trolling" on here it would be good to have a real customer provide actual testimony. Can you provide some facts from your deals through them besides the vague statement that you are "richer because of them" (which to be honest kind of sounds like a sound bite from a Clayton Morris podcast)? Unfortunately all the testimonials and first hand info on here and everywhere else is 100% negative, so I'd like to verify you as a satisfied customer. Thanks! 

[Choena Jasso]

@Todd Burton on 03/20/18 a leasing agent for Oceanpointe investments, signed a lease for a close friend of mine, and he was given keys to the property. At the time we had no idea of how this company was ran. The lease was supposed to be for 1year.  Since the 20th the company has had the locks changed and just today called to say that they have decided to refund only part of the monies paid. Does he have any legal ground to file suit for breach of contract? Especially seeing how he’s finding out that they  had their brokers liscence revoked in December of 2017.

[Todd Burton]

HEADS UP! Just heard yesterday that Oceanpointe is either changing names or adding an alternate management company: URBAN CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT, INC.

Morris is also promoting his new management company: BLUE SKY PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LLC

Same people, different names...