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All Forum Posts by: Mike D'Arrigo

Mike D'Arrigo has started 280 posts and replied 4681 times.

Post: New Investor Seeking Guidance on Out-of-State Properties

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022

@Harish Pasupuleti welcome to the world of real estate investment. The biggest mistake that I see out of state investors make is unnowingly buying in the wrong neighborhoods and buying the wrong asset class. It's not as hard as it might seem to identify a neighborhood class however. Get familiar with the rents in your area and the prices and see how your property compares. Use Google Maps to see what is in the immediate area. If you see strip malls with dive bars, check cashing places, bail bondsmen ets it's a pretty good idea you're not in the best of neighborhoods. On the other hand, if there is a large mall with major anchor department stores, good restaruants and Starbucks, you can be fairly ceertain that's a good neighborhood class. 

Here are some of the key things to look out for when evaluating turn key companies:

  • Don't allow financing or a finance contingency. They require you to make up the difference if the property doesn’t fully appraise. This is often an indication that they are selling above market value
  • Don't allow for your own independent property inspection
  • Are not realistic with their pro forma projections.
    Are their vacancy and maintenance projections unrealistically low? Can they explain how they calculate their vacancy rates? Are their rent estimates realistic etc?
  • Require you to pay for any renovation upfront

  • Sell only cheap, low priced properties in rougher areas.
  • Are not consistent with the areas in which they sell. Do they seem to sell in just any neighborhood or do they have a specific criteria for what class of neighborhoods in which they sell?
  • Don't accurately represent the neighborhood/property classification.

  • Don't have consistent rehab standards for all properties
  • Don't provide a scope of work for the renovation that they have done.
  • Are they a turn-key company or are they a promoter? If they are a promoter, how many turn key providers do they work with and how do they vet them?
  • How many markets do they operate in and why did they choose the markets that they are in?

     How well do they know the markets and neighborhoods they operate in?

    Does the person that you are talking to personally know the market and          neighborhood?

  • How do they evaluate markets and choose the ones in which they operate?
  • Do they seem more interested in just selling you a property than the success of your investment
  • Can't provide references of repeat investors

Below is a link to  a blog on out of state turn key investing that I wrote for Bigger Pockets that you might find helpful. Feel free to reach out for any advice or insights. I'm happy to help.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/3992/93651-the-si...

Post: My name is Joshon Foster

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022

@Joshon Foster I think you might have a misconception of what Section 8 is. Section 8 and multifamily are not mutually exlusive. Section 8 is federally subsidized housing and is available for both SFR and MF. There are advantages and disadvantages to it and those can vary by the local housing authority that administors the program in your area. Be sure to research how easy or difficult it is to work with your local housing authority, They can make or break it.

Post: New Construction Investment Property Showcase

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
New Construction Investment Property Showcase

How to build long-term wealth with new construction real-estate

In this free webinar, we'll showcase available new construction properties in the Indianapolis area that will help you create generational wealth.

We'll cover the following topics:

  • * Why new construction is a good long-term investment

    * Showcase of available properties and floor plans
    *
    Long-term returns vs short-term cash-flow
    *10 year income and equity projections
    *Builders experience and reputation

  • REGISTER HERE

Post: New Construction Investment Property Showcase

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
          New Construction Investment Property Showcase

                                          How to build long-term wealth with new construction real-estate

In this free webinar, we'll showcase available new construction properties in the Indianapolis area that will help you create generational wealth.

We'll cover the following topics:

  • * Why new construction is a good long-term investment

    Showcase of available properties and floor plans
    Long-term returns vs short-term cash-flow
    *10 year income and equity projections
    *Builders experience and reputation

  • REGISTER HERE

Post: BRRRR for Smaller Multifamily Properties?

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
Quote from @Anthony Freeman:
Quote from @Mike D'Arrigo:

@Michael Hunt in order to do a successful BRRRR you need to improve the property enough that you force equity. That generally requires a fair amount of rehab that you're not going to be able to do with tenants living there. The concern that I would have in doing a BRRRR on a duplex or quad is getting a good appraisal. You have to really nail your ARV estimate in order to get your money out. The problem with MF is they are often hard to appraise because they don't always have a lot of good comps. Whenever we have appraisal issues, it is usually with MF.


When you show the lender the proof of NOI do they challenge it, is that where you face the setbacks for the comps? By taking the Cap rate and plugging in your new NOI you should get a nice estimate for your new purchase price. This is my chosen strategy so any feedback will help.

Appraisers don't use the income approach for values on 1-4 unit properties. They use market comps which is why it can be tricky. It's sometimes hard to get good comps on duplexes or 4 plexes since there isn't always enough similar units in the immediate area.

Post: Looking for guidance as a new Out of state investor

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
Quote from @Colin Kelly-Rand:

@Mike D'Arrigo

I have a friend down in KC and thought about investing there before. Thanks for mentioning it again. Are you investing on the Kansas or Missouri side? Or are laws similar enough that you invest on both sides? 

What are labor rates down there? 

For example, up in Boston for high quality maintenance personal you pay around $35/hour, electricians are $100/h and plumbers are $175/h. 

Kind regards, 
Colin

Colin, we operate primarily on the MO side but that's primarily due to the availability of rental type properties. We do some on the KS side. Both can sides can perform well in the right neighborhoods. MO may be a little more landlord friendly but not significantly more. 

Post: Having a hard time finding where to post a rental for sale - Where is the Marketplace

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
Quote from @Salvatore Lentini:

@Mike D'Arrigo - ahhh. Because it's not called Marketplace?  "Real Estate Listings".  The only way I've been able to find out in the past and just now was by Google Bigger Pockets Marketplace.  Maybe it used to be called Marketplace?

Yes, it was.

Post: Having a hard time finding where to post a rental for sale - Where is the Marketplace

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
Quote from @Salvatore Lentini:

I've posted rental properties on here before but now I can't find a link to the Marketplace.  Am I losing it?  Looking to post my multi family in Dayton OH for sale.

You're not losing it. Go to "Tools" in the navigation bar, then go to "Find Deals" 

Post: Does multi-family/apartment home appreciate as fast as single family homes?

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022

@Leo Day It depends. Commercial property values are based on rent and operating income. 

Post: Cashflow vs Appreciation - Debunking David - Midwest wins!

Mike D'Arrigo
Posted
  • Turn key provider
  • San Jose, CA
  • Posts 4,856
  • Votes 3,022
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Greg Scott:
In a recent podcast David Greene answered the question of a young person from San Diego.  He commented that total returns in the Midwest are poor because they don't appreciate and rents don't go up.  He specifically called out "places like Indiana" and said this person would be better off buying one expensive property near where he lives vs several less expensive properties in the Midwest. 

I will use data to dispute.

In January 2015, the median home in Indianapolis was $97K.  At that same time the median home price in San Diego was $478K, so you could roughly buy 4 Indianapolis properties for every one San Diego property.  At that same time, the average rent for a typical Indianapolis property was $934 per month and the San Diego average was $1,781 per month.  So, would it be better to have bought one San Diego house or four Indy houses???

If you sold in Feb 2023, here is how your investment would have performed over those 8 years.

Appreciation
- Indianapolis - Those four houses would be worth $852K, a $464K increase in value or a 119% increase
- San Diego - This one house would be worth $884K, a $406K increase in value or a 84% increase

Rent Appreciation
- Indianapolis - Rents rose to an average of $1,458 over this time  period or a 56% increase
- San Diego - Rents rose to an average of $2,959 over this time period or a 66% increase

Gross Rents - Since cash flow would be difficult to calculate without expense data, it is much easier to look at gross rents as a surrogate.
- Indianapolis - Total rents for 8 years from these four houses would be $429K
- San Diego - Total rents for 8 years from one house would be $215K

All total, the four Indy houses look like a better investment than one San Diego house.  As an added benefit, you could sell one of those properties if you want.  With the San Diego house, you can't easily sell 1/4 of it!

Data sources - All Zillow
https://www.zillow.com/home-va...
https://www.zillow.com/home-va...
https://www.zillow.com/researc...

I do not know how the Indianapolis market has performed since the rate increases, but San Diego had its first decline since the Great Recession. Prices are down ~10% since May.  The San Diego average RE using your numbers would have been close to $1m prior to the rate increase.

I suspect your start date was chosen to help make your point.   I therefore decided to see what neighborhood scout showed for the long term (since 2000) for each of these cities.  Indianapolis is rated 4 out of 10 with total appreciation of 100.79%. San Diego 240.97% and 10/10 in appreciation. San Diego has almost 2.5 the appreciation of Indianapolis for this century. 

I recently saw someone cherry pick dates that showed detroit had appreciated more than San Diego.  It is not difficult to find some time span where a city out appreciates the various coastal CA cities.  It is however difficult to find cities that have appreciated more for the long term.

Personally if I can make the same profit from less properties, that has advantages.  Owning residential RE is not passive even when using a PM.  

If I was the podcast host, I would have used a different city other than Indianapolis or gone more generic such as midwest city that has rent that has not kept up with inflation.  His point is accurate, even if his example was not perfect. 

I believe it is possible to succeed or fail in virtually any RE market and advocate 1) starting local 2) educate as much as you can on your market and RE approach 3) leverage those with experience in your market and RE approach.  If you can get them to actively mentor, that would be

 I agree with @Greg Scott We've been involved in Indianapolis and Kansas City for about 10 years and the growth has been great. We sold properties for Mid $50K and renting for $750 10 years ago. Today, those properties sell for $120K and rent for $1200. Will investors continue to see thay kind of growth? Of course not, but I don't know of any markets where they will. Having said that, not every Midwest market is a good investment market. Many will have little to no appreciation. Indianapolis and Kansas City do well because they have growing populations, job growth and modern/diverse economies which sets them apart from many of the other Midwest markets.