Who is more unethical Realtors or used car salesmen?

[Adam Bartomeo]

I know this will ruffle a few feathers but it is a fair question.

I have met and had hundreds of interactions with realtors and I am never surprised at the new lows that some of them can reach. I was also a manager at CarMax (the largest seller of used vehicles in the world) so I understand used car sales people.

Before you get too upset, I agree that there are good realtors and good used sales people out there (I think that they are few and far between). But, based on my experience both are highly questionable in their interactions and practices.

Most recently I found out that a realtor that represented me told the other agent pertinent information about my situation when I expressly told them that they were not to share it with anyone. This caused me a loss of about $10,000.

I am a highly religious man that tries to operate honestly and fairly in all interaction (I am human and do make mistakes). But, I have been lied to, deceived and wronged by almost every realtor and car salesman that I have encountered.

Please share your story with me and see if you can change my jaded view of these so called "professions" or share a story that reinforces my point of view.

[Steve Vaughan]

Disclosing material negotiation facts about their client is just wrong and self-defeating I don't get that at all! Sounds like you went through with the purchase?

Anyone in any industry with the heart of a salesman vs the heart of a teacher will always first look out for their own best interests. Gotta find that one (unicorn) out there that has the heart of a teacher and is truly looking out for you, their client!

I've had a lot of bad run-ins with realtors and PM co's as well.  Most of the LAs I submitted offers to early on quickly shopped them and low and behold - that property that was vacant with no activity for months suddenly has a competing offer and sells for $100 more than I offered. Whatever.  Most of those shady LAs aren't around anymore and I am one of the local brokerages largest direct-buy competitors in my small town.    

I'm with you overall, but know there are good agents out there.  A lot of them I suspect are here on BP!  If I was able to partner with a good agent early on I would be much more successful I'm sure.   I did try.  Good luck in your quest @Adam Bartomeo!

[Chris K.]

Neither is worse than the other. Both are professions highly based on "incentives" and anytime you mix humans and incentives you will always have some who will put the incentives ahead of ethics. 

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Chris K.We are not talking about a few rouge individuals that got greedy. We are talking about 99.9% of them. And, I have worked in commission sales for years and had never been unethical. As a manager I ensured that my associates were not unethical and never broke the law. We are talking about an industry that is highly litigious and these folks still have their licenses.

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Steve VaughanI found out about the $10,000 loss after the deal was done. But, I have story after story. Your funny, I have never seen a unicorn, so, I guess I will never see a honest Realtor.

[Russell Brazil]

@Adam Bartomeo Well I am a Realtor.  My guess is that the percentage of the unethical, the dumb, and the good is probably the same proportion as it is in other professions.  If 99.9% of the ones you are having contact with that way are that bad, maybe it is time to adjust how you pick a Realtor?  I always suggest that people find Realtors by referral as opposed to some other method. If someone has done right by one or two of your friends or family, there is a good chance they will do right by you.

In my experience the unethical Realtors are from small brokerages that tend to service a lot of REO's. I dont know why that is, it is just something that seems to be the case in my market place.

[Lee S.]

Originally posted by @Adam Bartomeo:

@Chris K.We are not talking about a few rouge individuals that got greedy. We are talking about 99.9% of them. And, I have worked in commission sales for years and had never been unethical. As a manager I ensured that my associates were not unethical and never broke the law. We are talking about an industry that is highly litigious and these folks still have their licenses.

 wow, 99.9% eh?  Can I see your data and data collection parameters?  My bad, I should have realized that being a "highly religious man" means you don't bother with facts. 

I've dealt with a few Realtors and never had a bad experience and never felt they were dishonest in any way.  I've just recently got my license as well and I can guarantee you I'm not unethical.  

So, the answer to your question regarding who is more unethical?  An unethical person regardless of what profession they are in, period.

You were able to confirm one thing with your post however, I'll let the other readers decide what that may be.  What's your "profession" by the way so we can tell you how we had a dishonest interaction with one of your peers and therefore label the entire profession.

[Matt Motil]

people get stupid when money is involved. While I would say that the majority of investors operate at a level where you understand how small of a world it is, and understand the damage burning bridges and relationships can be... Most people just don't get it and when faced with their smaller minded mentality of how to make the next quick buck, they will sell their grandmothers short if it boosted their next bonus. How do you think you'll be treated any better?

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Lee S.I respect your opinion and your few interactions but my experience with hundreds of realtors is much worse. You are welcome to view my BP page to get a better understanding of my past but my profession is real estate investor. I am highly factual and that is why I believe in god but thank you for attacking my beleifs. I have done the research but this is not about me. It is about a profession that is highly unscrupulous.

Please feel free to read other post on BP that address the same topic as I am not alone.

[Chris K.]

You are contradicting yourself... according to you 99.9% are unethical but you just happen to be that .01% who isn't?? Then you say that as a manager you ensure that your associates are not unethical but how is that possible when, as you say, 99.9% are unethical/greedy?

You're not going to have a person who is an honest and fair car salesman suddenly become dishonest and unethical just because they become a Realtor or vice-versa.

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Russell BrazilI have read a lot of your posts and your page. I respect your comments and know that you are educated from what I have read.

Coldwell banker, one of the largest brokerage firms. I was transferred with my former company and was assigned a realtor to help me find a home. The realtor REFUSED to show me the top home on my list. When I asked her why she said because it was a waste of her time and I didn't want to buy it. I politely told her that I would need to use another realtor because this was a house that I was highly interested in. She called my job and complained that I should buy what she shows me. No Joke.

I switched realtors, bought the house that she said I didn't want and it appraised for $40k more then the purchase price. After 2 years it is worth $130,000 more then I paid

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Chris K.I guess I'm not understanding what you are referring to. I'm not a realtor and I have never managed realtors. I managed fortune 500 companies.

I absolutely had unethical people work for me over the years. Mostly, we terminated their employment the day it was discovered and on occasion (when enough evidence was there not to cause a lawsuit to the company) we prosecuted the former employee.

Again, this is not about me or my history. It is about giving examples of how realtors have provided ethical service. Do you have any examples?

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Matt MotilFunny. Yes, then what do you do? I had bought and sold several properties through one realtor hoping that I would get treated better. But, got blindsided the moment that I gave trust.

[Ellie Hanson]

I haven't found most realtors to be unethical but I've found them to clueless. It's super easy to become a realtor and you get to call yourself one after just taking a test. Haven't sold a single house? That's ok! You're a realtor!

In my old profession (CPA) you needed to pass a very hard test (less than 10% pass all the test on the 1st try), work for 2 years apprenticing another CPA and prove 7 competencies to that mentor. Even the appearance of a conflict of interest is enough to get your license pulled. So perhaps I'm biased and expect more but that's my opinion.

As far as being "highly religious" so therefore you have a higher moral code I'd beg to differ. It may apply to you but shouldn't be used as a blanket statement. No where else besides religion can a person be horrible, steal, kill, rape and just beg forgiveness (which they always seem to get) and go about their day all absolved. Secular people don't have that easy out and therefore have always proven themselves to be better people. Good without God.

[Matt Motil]

this might piss a lot of people off, but it's easy to be a used car salesman and a real estate agent. Look at the cost of entry and time required to start in either field. That being said you're going to have a large quantity of people that really aren't there for the right reasons (i.e. Actually helping people get the car or home that actually suits their needs, wants, desires and budgets). You will have to filter through the riff-raff and find the ones worth working with. Once you do, you build that relationship and hold onto it cause it's a valuable one to have. 

[Jacqueline Carrington]

Sorry but it just sounds like you're bad at choosing Realtors.

[Brandon Stevens]

Maybe you should find a realtor at your church. How come you just don't get your own license if you are so upset with your representation? It just seems a little unfair to make such a broad statement such as 99.9% indicating you've basically never met an ethical realtor. Every industry has unethical people, they don't last but trying to put every realtor into that basket is ridiculous.  

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Brandon StevensI am in the process of getting my license. Because of my former position I moved a lot and it didn't make sense to get a realtor license to have to go back through the process.

I have reached out to realtors from different churches but haven't had much luck. Although, they seem honest they have been inexperienced and not motivated enough to work with an investor.

I believe that I stated that there are ethical realtors out there. This is from my original post "

Before you get too upset, I agree that there are good realtors and good used sales people out there (I think that they are few and far between). But, based on my experience both are highly questionable in their interactions and practices.

@Jacqueline CarringtonMy current realtor (who has been doing a good job) got a call from another realtor? The other realtor told her that the seller was willing to take a much lower price on a property. Isn't that against the law. Do you know that we get these types of calls about 2 times a month. These are people that I have never seen or met.

[Adam Bartomeo]

@Ellie HansonI absolutely do not disagree with you. Every religion has committed atrocities and I am aware of this through my studies of religion in college.

Please do not misunderstand my comment, I never made a comment about having a higher ethical code because of my religion. I am a man that does his best everyday to be a good person but have bad days just like everyone else. I am amazed about the amount of religious responses I have gotten from this. Not sure why this small statement is such a big issue for some. 

But, my experience tells me that I do have a higher ethical code then most. Even if I was not religious I would still operate fairly and honestly as much as possible. This is why companies have made me responsible for tens of millions of dollars and hundreds of employees.

[Sean Kuhn]

Let's please keep BP a great place, I don't know how fruitful discussing/bashing either religion or someone's profession will be.

[David Dachtera]

@Adam Bartomeo,

I was raised Catholic (though I choose not to practice anymore) and was a liturgical musician for over 30 years. So, I understand some few things about faith.

Somehow, "highly religious" and such cynicism suggest a spiritual conflict.

I'd suggest some quality time with your minister, priest, pastor, etc. Take him/her to dinner regularly and discuss this with them. Since you'll be talking (indirectly?) about your RE business, it may even be deductible - ask your accountant.

People tend to live up - or down - to our expectations of them. Perhaps your deepest feelings are in conflict with your more conscious preferences. Perhaps people sense that about you. That type of congruency challenge can give rise to much consternation.

Just a thought...

[James Wise]

@Adam Bartomeo your experiences sound like a self fulfilling prophecy to me. I find it hard to believe that a respectable Realtor would entertain working with a client that feels the way you do.

[Joey Dwyer]

@Adam Bartomeo  Looks like you have struck a nerve here. I do know how it feels to have a bad experience and blame a whole industry. I also agree on other comments about how the requirements to become a realtor are too easy. But my transactions have all been positive ones. I'm not saying this because I am a licensed Realtor. I've only been licensed for a year now. I have been investing for over 15 years and I've used many realtors. Some have even become friends. 

I used a realtor in AZ to sell an out of state investment property last year. She went above and beyond her job description. She lined up all the contractors, paid for photographer and gardener out of her own pocket, and when I got a notice from the HOA for over grown weeds she went down and pulled them herself. My brother was 5K short for his downpayment and his agent put up the money as a gift just to get the deal done. (of course he did eventually pay her back) but my point is... the 99.9 % number might be a little on the high side.

 I truly hope your future transactions are positive and may the wind be always at your back.

[Ramsey Kheshen]

With all my respect to all members and colleagues who are discussing and commenting on this issue, allow me to point out a simple fact. God created this universe with opposites: good & bad, male & female, day  & night. What I want to say is, we humans are very judgmental, It is funny to hear an ex car salesman labeling all car salesmen

and all real estate agents as unethical, we must not forget that some of us who are doing Fix and Flip, buy and sell ,might fall in that category in the eyes of others. It does not constitute they are right. A bad person is bad in any profession he choose to do and the is always ethical . Keep looking till you find what you looking for.

[Matthew Pinkston]

I understand with bad experiences there is often a strong urge to vent. But if people want to hear of positive experiences with realtors, I'm very happy to say the very first realtor I met not only patiently lead me through my first four transactions (which all went smoothly), but became a friend as well. As has been said already, this business is all about people. There are good people and, in order to sidestep a heavily nuanced label, people who may have other priorities which may cause conflicts of interest.. 

Nonetheless, as with any type of investing, be careful how much emotion you let seep into the equation. Realtors provide a key role to this type of investing and even if you end up getting your own real-estate license, you'll still be working with realtors. Another key to investing is don't give up. If the very first realtor I worked with ended up being an amazing person, there's plenty more wonderful realtors out there.

[Aaron Mazzrillo]

One doesn't need to take mandatory ethics training every 4 years to maintain their car salesman license. Next to Wall Street and the mob, agents are the most corrupt people I've ever dealt with.