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Updated over 6 years ago, 04/13/2018
Renting to non citizens
We are 2 years into rentals and are considering renting to a spanish couple that have been here over 20 years, have fin numbers and are gainfully employed. The husband has applied for a green card. the wife has not. What should I be considering other than the possibility of deportation? The current political climate in washington is another consideration. Would there be any legal rammifications to us as the landlord.
Yes please!
Totally get it Greg. Protection your asset and that of a client is of the utmost importance. Between some of the responses to these threads (there's already a lengthy and recent one) and some of the other posts I see (trying to hold tenants liable for natural disasters and the like), there are certainly a lot of folks who unnecessarily give landlords a bad rap.
You can still do your due diligence on an applicant and not play ICE agent.
Just my two cents here. I don't want to be responsible for maintaining the security of someone else's Social Security number. So, I use a third party background/credit check company. The potential tenant pays that fee to the company directly for the service and the company then issues me a combined report and recommendation based on criteria I've given them. I've discovered over the years that if they don't have a SSN to use, they can't complete the process that I require of every single tenant. There's no discrimination in that.
Also, for what it is worth, I have found that good credit = good tenants. I've never seen an exception to that rule. (I don't count medical debt or student loan debt as long as it looks like they pay on time on credit cards, utilities, vehicles, rent, etc.)
Hope this helps.
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
@Account Closed
"Generalizing people leads to discrimination"
Couldn't agree more with the statement Joe!
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.
- Tom Gimer
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.
And that helps?
Originally posted by @Chinmay J.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.
And that helps?
I'm sorry... was the sarcasm not laid on thick enough?
- Tom Gimer
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Chinmay J.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.
And that helps?
I'm sorry... was the sarcasm not laid on thick enough?
That was borderline at best.. Glad you weren't serious.. Add more to the mix next time. We are dealing in 2 dimensional media here.. Hence the emojis and other tools to get the point across.
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.
If I wanted to discriminate against US citizens that is exactly what I would do and I would justify with the same arguments that people use to justify discriminating against Blacks, Latino's, immigrants and anybody else that they don't rent to.
That it's a consistent and universally applied criteria, no exceptions.
But hey don't let the fact that you have probably never been discriminated against in your life stop you from continuing to show how much difficulty you have comprehending or accepting such a relatively straightforward concept.
As to why that is is between you and your conscience.
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.
To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.
A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.
I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.
Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft. I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's substitute the word passport for SSN in your post .
Ready ..... Here we go.
A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport
An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.
A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.
Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.
The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.
Unfortunately, possession of passport is not a protected class. you are correct that it is discrimination. you are incorrect in saying its illegal. if so, why can businesses refuse to hire people without college diplomas? a huge percentage of the country does not have a college diploma, yet they legally discriminate against them.
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?
That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.
BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.
@William George spear apologies if someone else has asked this, but have you considered asking an attorney?
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?
That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.
BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.
Hmm. That sounds discriminatory.
But the victims would be Americans ... so who cares, right?
- Tom Gimer
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?
That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.
BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.
In the interest of multiculturalism and because its germane, I'll add a saying from my old Dari teacher: "A liar thinks all others liars, a thief all others thieves."
Do with that what you will.
@Joe Splitrock I was intentionally over generalizing. But I am not sure you were joking when you jumped to the conclusion that "non-citizen" meant illegal immigrant.
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?
That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.
BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.
Hmm. That sounds discriminatory.
But the victims would be Americans ... so who cares, right?
Finally. But it took an example of which you would have been a victim to get that acknowledgement. Yes it is discriminatory.
The thing about discrimination is that the victim has to care, care enough to take action by reporting it. Maybe it is so rife because many Americans may not want to live in such accommodations anyway.
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. "Finally" you say, like you've made a breakthrough in the education of me.
Give me a break man.
You can't argue with stupid. They'll just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. "Finally" you say, like you've made a breakthrough in the education of me.
Give me a break man.
Er no nothing to do with your education, I'm not responsible for that.
Finally as in you finally acknowledge that something could be discriminatory when presented with an example of which you would be the "intended victim".
@Ihe O. You must be thinking of someone else. I'm the guy who observes you finding disparate impact in everything and makes sure your statements of fact and law which sometimes turn out to be opinions found in tabloid magazines don't go unchallenged.
- Tom Gimer
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
@Ihe O. You must be thinking of someone else. I'm the guy who observes you finding disparate impact in everything and makes sure your statements of fact and law which sometimes turn out to be opinions found in tabloid magazines don't go unchallenged.
Like there is any evidence of you doing that in this discussion.
You are wasting your time taking issue with where I see disparate impact. Make your views known to HUD and tell them you think they are wrong to investigate landlords who go around checking applicants immigrant status.