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Updated over 5 years ago, 04/16/2019
Do you disclose a haunting?
I had a friend ask last evening if she needs to disclose to prospective tenants that their half of a duplex may be haunted. Not having any experience with this I thought I'd ask BP. She bought it as a rehab and in the process her workmen have noted unexplained door slammings, foot steps from upstairs when no one else is there and someone tapping them on the shoulder when no one else is there and unexplained noises from the baement when no one else is there. It apparnetly is only one one side of the duplex and the other half is already rented without incident. She had one prospect look at the main floor and liked it then went upstairs and quickly came down and ran out of the house saying it wasn't for her. What do you think?
Originally posted by @Guinevere White:
In New Mexico, hauntings are disclosable/material.
Again, I'd love to see the word haunting or paranormal or alien appear in a state law or code regarding disclosure. Bring it on.
I think this is as good as you're gonna get. http://realtormag.realtor.org/sales-and-marketing/...
Originally posted by @Guinevere White:
I think this is as good as you're gonna get. http://realtormag.realtor.org/sales-and-marketing/...
New Mexico was not even mentioned in the article. Not one single state law was cited as including paranormal language. Try again. :)
As I said, K. Marie, this is AS GOOD AS YOU'RE GOING TO GET. You are welcome to research each state's real estate laws at your convenience.
Originally posted by @Guinevere White:
As I said, K. Marie, this is AS GOOD AS YOU'RE GOING TO GET. You are welcome to research each state's real estate laws at your convenience.
But you said disclosure is required and is material in NM. Damn. I was hoping for a source or citation on that. I guess that is as good as I'm going to get. :(
The bulk of the business we do is value-add opportunities in for haunted properties. We buy haunted properties for a fraction of the cost and bring in a real good priest to clean it up. Typically flip the house post-cleanse for a 50% profit.
We maintain a team of highly qualified priests including but not limited to christians, jews, hindus, buddhist, etc. Let me know how we can help.
All joking aside, you should disclose it.
While I personally don't believe in paranormal activity, there are many people who do. The last thing your friend needs is the tenant to find out from his neighbor that the house is "haunted". People chase ambulances all the time - even the haunted ones!
Bottom line for me: If you know it, disclose it. There is no reason to take on any risk that can be easily avoided. Based on my past experience, the disclosure forms I've seen require all conditions which could affect the property's value. If a home is perceived to be haunted (even if we both know that it isn't), that would negatively affect the value.
-Christopher
Originally posted by @Jimmy Klein:
The bulk of the business we do is value-add opportunities in for haunted properties. We buy haunted properties for a fraction of the cost and bring in a real good priest to clean it up. Typically flip the house post-cleanse for a 50% profit.
We maintain a team of highly qualified priests including but not limited to christians, jews, hindus, buddhist, etc. Let me know how we can help.
Post-cleanse flip. I like it. Talk about value add with little competition. And I thought title and probate problems were a specialized niche. You win!
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I only disclose that a house is haunted by a demon or poltergeist if I get it certified by the Ghost Hunters. If it's just the restless spirit of someone's deceased spouse, I usually let is slide.
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#4 Marketing Your Property Contributor
- Lender
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Last night I was a guest of a fellow real estate investor (and former child actor) to the world famous Magic Castle in Hollywood.
The ghost of the former owner's daughter 'Irma' is said to haunt the premises. She also plays a piano and takes requests. I was astounded when Irma, now dead almost 100 years was able to play one if my favorite songs from Talking Heads, 'Burning Down the House'.
That's one smart ghost!
What about haunting by ex-mother-in-laws? I've found no one who can cleanse such a property.
Tell her to cut her losses, I believe it's haunted I'll take all the risk and give her half her money back.
So I actually was renting one side of a duplex a few years back in Coralville, Iowa and my wife and I when we were just about to move out our neighbor was chatting with us about how she was looking to sell her side soon. We were thinking about possibly buying both sides because our owner wanted to sell as well.
Those ideas came to a screeching halt when she asked us how we handled the ghost while we lived there. We were like ummm WHAT ghost?! She apparently dealt with a ghost the whole time and her son would never play in the basement alone. They said it wasn't mean just creepy and always around. The only problem we had was one time there were blood splatters and child handprints on our sliding door outside one iday night. We called the cops and they were just as stunned too as to what it was. And
So Tom how far are you from Villisca? Think the ax murder kids could be traveling?
i always disclose that the spirits fly about when the rent is late
After reading the posts I figured I'd join. Aside from what we may all believe to be true or not, the fact is that this could potentially hold up the rental process. I think that from a business standpoint you should cross your T's and dot your I's. Maybe "honesty" is the best policy with this situation. If there are people out there that offer these types of services then maybe it is worth looking into. Myself personally, if I loved a place, and the owner let me know that there may be some sort of paranormal activity, I wouldn't necessarily rule that property out. Now if I later found out from neighbors or whomever, then I would be a little angry that I wasn't told up front. Interesting post though.
My wife and I found out AFTER purchasing our own home that a few years earlier, the deceased husband of the widow who owned it had committed suicide in...shot himself... TWICE! Our neighbor is ninety-something and had mentioned it. We looked into it and sure enough, it happened. So we've been there for four years and literally just last month my wife was detail cleaning the closet in the room that we suspect the act occurred and found an unspent bullet.
So we keep thinking 'Hey! this wasn't disclosed! We should be cash in for some sort of lacking disclosure!
And yes, he shot himself twice. You'd think that after the first didn't do it you'd feel like you were here for a reason or something, but to tag yourself again? - that's commitment!
I have a ghost buster on speed dial here in Santa Fe New Mexico @Guinevere White.
I'm in San Diego where we are about to start the annual apocalypse known as "Comic Con". Imagine the per-night rates you could get from the Zombie crowd! They would be vastly disappointed if you DIDN'T rattle a chain or two and drip some blood on the door after midnight!
Seriously though, disclose. If someone doesn't believe in ghosts no problem. If they do they will be extremely unhappy tenants. Someone, someday will tell them & then there will be....er...um...."something" to pay.
The Haunted Mansion
There’s an infamous court case often cited when it comes to disclosure law, Stambovsky v. Ackley,that revolves around a haunted house.
Helen Ackley owned a big old Victorian home in Nyack, New York. The town sits about 30 miles north of New York City on the west bank of the Hudson River, in an area known for many haunted places, including the legendary Sleepy Hollow. Mrs. Ackley was well aware that her house was supposedly haunted. In fact, she claims to have seen several ghosts herself, including one that gave her approval for a new paint color in the living room and several dressed in colonial-era clothing. She described her home’s ghosts for the local newspaper and Reader's Digest and even got the house featured on a “haunted house” walking tour of Nyack. When she decided to put the house up for sale and retire to Florida, though, Mrs. Ackley suddenly got very shy about the ghosts.
Jeffrey and Patrice Stambovsky wanted to buy the house and agreed to Ackley’s asking price of $650,000. It wasn’t until after the couple gave Ackley a $32,500 down payment that they were talking to a local about their purchase and were asked, “Oh, you're buying the haunted house?”
The Stambovskys were not exactly thrilled to learn about the alleged haunting of their new home and attempted to back out of the sale. Ackley would neither admit any wrongdoing nor cancel the sale and return the deposit, so the Stambovskys took her to court.
They lost the case, with the court citing their caveat emptor (“let the buyer beware”) responsibility to uncover the property’s defects before committing to a sale. They appealed and the Appellate Division of State Supreme Court ruled in their favor in a 3-2 decision.
The court found that, regardless of whether or not ghosts are real and the house was truly haunted, the fact that the house had been widely reported as haunted affected its value. Ackley “had deliberately fostered the belief that her home was possessed by ghosts” in the past and was therefore at fault for not disclosing this attribute of the house to the buyers, who, not being locals, could not readily learn about the defect on their own. On that note, one of the justices joked, “Who you gonna call?... Applying the strict rule of caveat emptor to a contract involving a house possessed by poltergeists conjures up visions of a psychic or medium routinely accompanying the structural engineers and Terminix man on an inspection of every home subject to a contract of sale.”
The Stambovskys eventually got their money back and Ackley eventually sold the house despite, or maybe because of, the fact that she had to disclose her supposed ghosts.
In the court case above, I think that was the right decision of the judge to side with the Stambovskys. I see the lack of disclosing a house being haunted as a lack of ethicalness. This of course is my personal view.
I always would want to put myself in the feet of the buyer and I would want to know if a property has ever been considered haunted and even more so if it's been proven to be haunted.
To me it boils down to full disclosure and honesty.
When I took my Real Estate Law class for my license in Texas, this exact topic came up. We discussed it at length, and though there is no requirement to disclose haunting or ghosts, the gray area is that if everyone in the neighborhood thinks the house is haunted, and it has that stigma, and you do not disclose it...when the neighborhood kids egg the house after the house is sold, the new owners cant find tenants or sell the property etc, they have legal grounds because you did not disclose something that is impacting them. Even if you don't believe it, it is always better to disclose.
So my friend did eventually rent that half of the duplex and to her knowledge so far the tenants haven't been bothered, but, she also hasn't asked. No news is good news I guess.
Massachusetts is the only state that requires you to disclose any knowledge of a death of any kind in the house. I was going to reference the above case myself but @Gilbert Dominguez beat me to it. I say disclose... if something like that would ever escalate to court, then it all depends on what kind of judge you get. You could get a judge who is a ghost hunter in their spare time and completely believes in it... unlikely but you catch my drift :) Heck some people I know would WANT to rent it out specifically because it's haunted!