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Updated about 5 years ago, 11/10/2019
Hot Water Boiler Broke - Tenant Seems Ignorant of Landlord Consideration
Hi BPer,
I would consider myself a decent landlord, where I would address every issue or concern that my tenants have.
Recently, my hot water boiler broke, so this issue negatively affect 2-3 units in the building. Two of the tenants seem to have no concern, but there is one tenant seems to be very ignorant about the situation.
Here is the story:
The first time the hot water issue was encountered, the lady called me at 7:45 PM telling me that she has no hot water. I told her I can come down at 8:00 AM in the morning. She seems very annoy by my answer. I told her that I could not just come instantly when you call, there is standard protocol .... etc.
The next day, I came by at 8 AM (on Saturday) to reset the boiler. Everything came up normally and everybody has hot water. Two days later, the boiler's light went off again. I got a call again. I told the lady this is something serious, and I have to call professional. She asks me when is it going to get fix. I told her I don't know, because I have to call the maintenance company, and make the appointment. Again, she seems very annoy. I got a schedule the same day a few hours later. The plumber came, and found no critical issue. He reset the light and charged me $95 for 25 minutes of work. This morning the same tank went busted, and gone (water starts coming out ..).
So, I have to replace a new tank, in which will require to order a new part, tank, schedule with the plumber, ..... I told everyone in the building including the lady that I am really sorry, but the boiler is broken and I proactively call around to get someone to come down and replace it. Everybody seems to understand, but this same lady is so ignorant and she demands that I get her hot water immediately.
I told her mam, even at my house when my boiler broke, I have to wait until the maintenance guy can come down and replace it. I told her nicely that I am really apologize for the inconvenience this might cause, but I have tried everything to my best to get the boiler up and running again.
Question:
When we have problem like hot water boiler (broken) or other similar issues, how soon does landlord have to get it up and running again?
From my view, I also have to call someone else, and I also have to wait until plumber's queue is clear to come down and fix my issue. Even though, I have the money, but it is not like I can force the plumber to come down instantly.
I look through "landlord responsibilities mass", I could not find the mention of such turn around timeline.
Can any experience property management or landlord give me some insight into this?
Thanks,
When you call a plumber, and they are busy keep calling until you find one no matter what the cost you need to keep your tenants happy they are paying your mortgage.
Joe Gore
@Chan K. . You just can't please everyone any given time so i am not sure what to say to this event. However one thing is for sure, In times like this it does pay dividends to have a previously established relation ship with a plumber so you can get one in a hurry if you really need one.
Earlier on when we had only a few doors, i was always trying to hire plumbers to replace faucets etc.. even thought i had remodeled several bathrooms personally. I toke me years but now we finaly have someone who most likely will come out the same day or if it can wait than the next morning.
This situation will work out for you just fine, don't loose focus by arguing with the tenant just get it done as fast as your can! Time will be your best PR as two months from now no one will remember this little event but the person who stuck with the bill. You :)
Good luck to you and don't get discouraged.
Regards
Val
@Account Closed
I was looking for a solid explanation in regard to rule and regulation, and not a brush off tenant bias solution. If you put a drug dealer and a gangster in your unit, do you have to suck up and let him do anything, because he pays for your mortgage?
In my experience major issues like no heat, no hot water, or other emergency situations 24-48hrs at most. I would explain that it takes time to get the materials and then someone to put it in just as you did. People expect different things when they do not have to get it done. When my heat went out in the winter I had to wait until the next day at my own residence. I have been without heat, water, hot water and I survived until the next day. So for all of my units managed I will get it done as soon as possible, but if next day service is not available then it is not available and we as owners and managers cannot always control that.
Thank you for the encouragement. I have an onsite maintenance guy who did not have plumbing license tries to address it (risk). I call a few companies, and either they could not come today or wait unit tomorrow. I don't have the time to waste.
I called my onsite maintenance guy, and gave him direction to try to disassemble the broken one and put a new one back. He already ordered the new tank, pipe,.....etc.
I replaced one in the past in a different building ..... etc
Just work it as expeditiously as possible. Nobody likes to be without hot water, but it's a convenience - you can live without it. Without knowing your unit, I would work to have it fixed in a couple days. If your plumber can't work you in, find one who can.
I doubt you'll find any written guidance on when it should be fixed. Keep records of your diligence in this issue so if you wind up in small claims court you can prove you did what normal folks would considerable reasonable to return hit water service to your tenants.
@Account Closed Like @Tyrus Shivers said that certain thing is not in landlord's control. You can call to get someone down to fix it ASAP, but the maintenance's company also has protocol. Usually, as landlord, we don't give excuse. It is very black and white. This is a business and a Job.
These are state law questions. I would ask your tenant/landlord attorney. He can give you the definitive answer for your state...
For me.. the answer is: 3 days then the tenant can start deducting daily rent.
One more point.. It does seem like there was a history with that boiler. Without dates, it's hard to know how far apart the incidents were but if the one where the plumber came out and the one where the boiler gave up, I would call that plumber and ask him about it.
@Chan K. For any habitability issues like this, I try to get them done the same day if I can, and if not, the next day. I have been known to call multiple plumbers until I found one who could do it ASAP. However, the more I use my regular guy, the more willing he is to come out within hours. I have a list of multiple contractors for various things, just for situations like yours.
- Dawn Brenengen
- Podcast Guest on Show #101
I think I can get someone in a couple of 1-3 days. The lady was expecting everything to get done when she is ready to take a shower at 5 PM today when the boiler broke at 9 PM in the morning.
I even told her that when stuff broke in my, I still have to wait.
I think I might be too nice to tenants. I should ignore certain people who don't have much common sense.
@Chan K. you seem to have a very negative view toward this tenant. You repeatedly refer to her as "ignorant" and say "people who don't have much common sense". As a tenant, though, her expectations are not unreasonable. She's paying for a unit that includes hot water. There's no hot water. She want's it fixed ASAP. Just like you do when your cable or internet goes out. Hopefully that negative view doesn't come across in your interactions. These negative situations are when your customer relations skills are really tested.
There's a big difference between when your water heater breaks and when one breaks in your rental. Control. You can choose how to deal with your own broken water heater. The tenant does not have that choice. They're at your mercy to take care of it.
You say the boiler broke twice and then failed catastrophically (leaking.) That sounds to me like you were trying to nurse a little more life out of an old unit. I've been there with a sewer line that I knew I was going to have to eventually replace. I should have been more proactive in dealing with this. But it failed catastrophically, leaving the tenants with no sewer. So, I had to scramble and get someone there ASAP and at least get them going. And it ended up costing me more, probably over a grand more, because of my reluctance to proactively replace it. That was the gamble I took. I lost.
No hot water is a big deal. I would do everything I could to get it replaced ASAP even it meant paying a plumber more to do it today than less to do it three days from now.
I do have a clause in my lease that says I will keep the tenants apprised of the status of any repairs. If you're done your best to get the repairs done as quickly as possible I would fall back on that clause. Explain parts have to be ordered and then installed. Give her a time frame for when it will be done.
I agree with @Jon Holdman . No hot water is a very big deal. It doesn't matter how long you went in your own home without hot water when it broke. What you do as a homeowner and what you do as a landlord are two different things.
If you had a plumber tell you that the boiler (or water heater, I can't understand exactly what you are talking about) was fine and it failed the next day then you should certainly never hire them again.
Getting this fixed should be quick and easy for a pro. Its just a boiler swap out. Pick up the phone book and keep calling until you can find someone to come out immediately to get this fixed. You will pay more, but you need to be aggressive in getting this fixed.
This should be fixed within 24-48 hours at the longest. I've never made a tenant go more than 24 hours without hot water. If you want to be a landlord you need to be responsible and prepared for these situations. Have a list of contractors ready to go. In a situation where there is hot water a plumber can generally rearrange something to squeeze you in, although it may cost a bit more.
Hi Chan,
I think your response times were fine, just maybe the way you're phrasing things to your tenant might be the issue. For instance, when she called at 7:45pm to report no hot water, you might say "oh no, I'm so sorry! I'll be right over there first thing in the morning!" Rather than, "I only do repairs during business hours". It's saying the same thing, but in a positive way, emphasizing your empathy over her lack of hot water.
Or when she reports another problem, say "I will get a plumber over there as quick as I possibly can!!", then call her back when you have a definite time and say something like "I've called every plumber in town, and the soonest he can get there is 5pm. Thank you for your patience! I know it's hard not having hot water!"
I've had a couple of issues lately with a hot water heater myself in one of my units, and that's kind of the way I phrased my responses, and my renter was happy, even though it took about 24 hours to get it ironed out.
It sounds like you are being very conscientious and trying to be a good landlord. That is the most important step in the right direction.
Try to separate your feeling about the tenant from the outcome. Frame your conversation from the tenant's point of view. "I am so sorry the boiler went out. I am working to get a replacement as soon as possible."
Keep her up to date on your progress: "I really want to get this boiler fixed for you. I contacted three plumbers today and I am waiting to hear back."
Find a common enemy: "I know! I am so frustrated these plumbers aren't calling us back so we can get your boiler back on line. I am SO SORRY!"
Mostly people want to vent when something bad happens. They want to feel like they are being heard.
Start every conversation (that you can possibly stand) with, "Thank you for calling me, I am so glad that you brought this to my attention." That will usually soften even the most angry people.
Your, "I'm sorry" wallet is never empty and free to refill.
Then, once the boiler is fixed, if she's still a pain in the rear, you can always raise her rent and seek a better tenant.
Thank you everyone for your feedback, and approach recommendation. I believe Tom V recognize what is going on really well.
Usually, I am really nice when I picked up a phone call from tenants concern. I use phrase like "thank you for calling", "I will address your issue and concern immediately as I know your concern is very important", "I am sorry for the inconvenience", "I am really sorry, I could not make it as I am with my family right now and let me stop by at 8:00 AM tomorrow" ..... etc.
Other 6 tenants that have the same negative impact understand the situation and trust that I will take care of this promptly, but why this only tenant. I told her straight up in person that I am feeling like you are bossing me around and that you are micro-management my ability to response to the hot water boiler matter. She told me that nothing is personal and it is just business. Remember, I just bought this building 1 week prior. I understand that I am responsible for addressing tenants concern, but I don't intent to have a boss whom is my tenant. One boss in my rat race is enough, and that is why I am trying the real estate job part time to build enough passive income to get out of the rat's track. If it causes more headache and dread to manage one tenant that required tremendous attention and response every minute, then maybe this tenant should be removed as she/he might not fit in the community or business model.
Story: The next day, I scrambled and called 6 plumbers and finally got someone to come down the same day at 1 PM to fix the issue. They overcharge me substantially, but it is worth the cost. The following day, she called me again, and she told me that she has a breathing issue, and would like to move my commercial trash can a bit further from her first floor unit.
Today, I am going to text her and let her know that "mam, I am showing your unit to build up tenant wait list just in case you have to leave in the near future. I believe as a tenant at will, I don't need to give her any reason to give my 30 days notice.
FYI: I never called the other plumber who told me "nothing was wrong with my boiler and water flood the basement from the boiler of interest".
@Chan K. Oh my, I didn't realize that you've only had this unit for one week and inherited these tenants. Talk about getting thrown right into the fire.
It does sound like you may have an issue with this tenant, but I don't know if you approach of showing her unit to "build a waitlist" makes sense. I've never heard of that. I think that you either need to server her notice and place a new tenant or try to come to an understanding with her. Showing her apt is only going to antagonize her.
It does sound like you've got a problem tenant here based on the "breathing issue" comment about the dumpster.
If the tenant is a problem let the tenant out of their lease and refund their deposit and find you another tenant.
Joe Gore
Don't do the "I'm showing your unit" approach. Too adversarial. Makes you look like a bad landlord if she tried to claim wrongful eviction etc..
You should wait a few weeks to make sure a termination of her tenancy is not seen as 'payback.' Read up on your local laws.
Don't let it become personal.
What @Tom V. said. Plus, sounds like you got off on the wrong foot with this tenant. There are pain in the a$$ tenants, PITA tenants I call them. She could be one. Or maybe the trash bin was just moved next to her window before you bought the place, who knows.
Sounds like you are taking a lot of what is happening personally. Don't. But keep in mind these are your customers, and since you're in California, which is SO tenant friendly, you should familiarize yourself with the landlord-tenant related laws there and respect the fact that tenants there have a LOT of rights and so you don't want to anger them by acting out after taking their complaints personally. Telling a tenant that they are not the boss of you is only going to add fuel to the fire and escalate the situation. I would handle it professionally, "Thank you for bringing this trash bin concern to my attention. I will look into it and find out it can be relocated". Let her know you just bought the building, ask her where the trash bin was before, and ask some other tenants as well. Find out if there is some sort of health code you are violating. If not, and if you can't/won't move it, tell her so. "Thanks for contacting me regarding your concern regarding the trash bin. Following further investigation, it has been determined that it cannot be moved. I regret any inconvenience this has caused." If she's month to month and I think you said these tenants are, she has the right to give 30 days notice and move out.
Since you never screened this tenant, it may be worth your while to find out what you can about her now by looking her up in online county court records, such as, has she sued landlords in the past? If so, you need to be VERY careful. Any chance you got any information about her, such as how long she's been living there? If she has been living there for years, and the trash bin has been there for years, she is testing you, and you need to respond appropriately. Some people/tenants are just complainers.
24 hours to get a boiler swapped out on a weekend is not unreasonable.
However, not going to the building to restart the boiler was not reasonable for several reasons. First, if there is a simple fix to give the tenant what they are paying for, you do it. Never mind "protocols." The protocol is you owe them hot water and you do what you have to to get them hot water. Second, you had no idea what was wrong. Suppose the boiler was leaking water all night? Get out and see what is wrong.
Chan,
I am sorry to read about your boiler issue and the lack of understanding from one of your tenant’s. Every city & County has their own ordnance, & how quickly a landlord must respond to emergencies. In some locales it is 30 days, 24 hours, sometimes it simply is not part of the calculation, which does seem punitive for the landlord. You compared your own home/residence, to your tenant’s apartment. This is like comparing a bear to a mountain. Understand, I can appreciate how you felt, but also how the tenant felt, knowing they are paying a monthly rent, in addition to a security fee. In your home, you can do what you want, when you want. A homeowner has multiple responsibilities for the maintenance of their own home. The apartment is the tenant’s home. They do not share any responsibility with you for ensuring the safety and working order of equipment. They cannot do what they want, take their time to replace equipment or shop around for the best price. The tenant is at the mercy of the landlord’s action or inaction. Landlords, willingly take on a monumental responsibility. Additionally, boilers are very dangerous. They must be maintained, in good operating order at all times. In addition to maintenance, all boilers must be inspected once or twice a year. This is mandatory, it is law. Depending what your local ordinance stipulates, the inspection can be once or twice a year. With the proper maintenance of any boiler, the operator will know in advance regarding any potential problems with the operation of a boiler. You referred to this tenant as “ ignorant.” While the tenant may have been frustrated, leading to what could have been impatient, they did not appear “ ignorant” based on your editorial. It is an enormous responsibility taking on the role as a landlord. This is just a thought; keep emotion in check, it will not help you & refrain from using adjectives referring to a tenant. They keep you in business, it least as a landlord. This is just a suggestion, you may want to research boilers, become familiar with the operation. I wish you continual success, remember, not all people respond or react the same way. Understand an apartment is someone’s home. They do not have the luxury of waiting to replace or repair equipment, they depend on you. Legally, you are accountable and responsible. As challenging as it maybe, keep the emotion out of what is a repair or replacement. This is afterall, what you freely accepted as a landlord. Best Wishes - Grace