Wealth Ability- formerly ProVision - Tom Wheelwright

[Rylan Zwanziger]

I'm looking into some better guidance into tax planning and a new CPA as I grow my real estate business.   Has anyone worked with Tom Wheelwright's ProVIsion or now Wealth Ability?  I had a consultation with them and have read Tax Free Wealth and think they would definitely be able to help me.  Sounds like its a $4k tax planning fee and then they do your taxes as well for an additional fee.  Looking for experience with these guys or other suggestions to look into.

Quick Bio:

I live in Iowa and currently have an LLC with rental properties, farm, sell insurance, and have a w-2 job so I just feel as if I'm in need of some good tax planning but also a CPA that has had experience with farmers.

[Yonah Weiss]

Originally posted by @Christopher Fraze:

@Harjot Khangura @Eamonn McElroy

If he files jointly with his wife and his wife does the 750 hours/year required for the Real Estate Professional tax status that would be legal and the unlimited depreciation defensible, right?

Yes that is correct, as long as the spouse fulfills the requirements of 750 hours AND spends more than 50% of working hours, actively involved in the trade or business of real estate.

Somehow, I don't think that was the magical tax strategy that this CPA figured out, that was referred to above.

[Christopher Fraze]

@Yonah Weiss

I love the term “magical”. I guess I don’t know for certain, but don’t you think it would be surprising for a firm with Tom’s name behind it to make a plainly indefensible recommendation? Seems like that would come out publicly fairly fast.

[Christopher Fraze]

@Jason Howell

Hi Jason. I grew up in Petaluma off Meecham Road but moved up to Santa Rosa then Windsor. I just had a consultation with Wealthability and was considering their services. Do you have anything to add to your earlier posts? Is it still going well? More importantly, do you think that you saved/made more money than it cost? Thank.

[Ola Dantis]

@Rylan Zwanziger I've heard great things about them. If you are seriously looking to drastically your tax bill as it is now then this might be a way to go. 

However, if you are just starting your journey in Real Estate Investing, then this might be a bit of an overkill, to be honest. 

[Jason Howell]

Originally posted by @Christopher Fraze:

@Jason Howell

Hi Jason. I grew up in Petaluma off Meecham Road but moved up to Santa Rosa then Windsor. I just had a consultation with Wealthability and was considering their services. Do you have anything to add to your earlier posts? Is it still going well? More importantly, do you think that you saved/made more money than it cost? Thank.

Hi Christopher!

I would say that both my wife and I feel like it was totally worth it for us. It got us motivated, organized, and ready to begin our investing and we hit the ground running with five properties in one year. 2019 has been quiet, no acquisitions this year, really just focused on some debt paydown, saving, and monitoring the portfolio. The ProVision process helped us feel confident that we could do it, and I'm certain there are plenty of people who might not NEED that kind of assistance in order to do this, but it really did help us. The team continues to handle our yearly taxes which we appreciate and they are always available to chat about things we are unclear about so we can keep learning year after year how to continue our progress and to learn from our mistakes.

[Christopher Fraze]

@Jason Howell

Thanks for the response. I am strongly considering it for the peace of mind. One of the biggest questions I have been pondering in this is whether to pass through the income to my 1040 (I also have a full time salaried job) or to elect the LLC as a C-corp. If you don't mind my asking, did they encourage you in one direction or another?

[John W Sbrocco]

I was just quoted 14k. Looks like they are just a marketing arm. Shouldnt I just speak with the CPA firm direct?

[Terry Fox]

I see there is a one time fee.  How much do they then charge to do the yearly taxes?

[Christopher Fraze]

@Terry Fox They told me the cost for filing taxes varies based on complexity. For a simple one, about $1000. 

[Lee Li]

Hi guys,

For a brief background, I'm located in Wilmington, DE with both commercial and residential rentals. Would anyone have local recommendations for tax advice and accounting firms rather than this ProVision in Phoenix?

I'm just quoted for about 15k one time fee with 1,000 for personal tax return and 2,000 for each business tax return. It seems like their one time fee varies dramatically from 4k to 15k. Has anyone had a way to lower this cost? 

Based on this thread's date, It seems some of you have been using them over a year. Could anyone share with some more details on how you feel about the services and if there's any hidden fees? Many thanks!

[Will Smith]

I just got off initial phone consultation with them and was quoted over 29k for our small business and 1 real estate rental holding. 

In addition they mentioned the following  additional annual fees:

2500 ongoing consultation

1500 corporate filing returns

1000 personal returns

what do they base their setup fees on as this is a massive swing from averaging 4-15k to now over 29k?

[Julian H.]

Looking for an update on this as well.

My wife and I received the initial consultation and after reading through this thread, seems to be a bit of an overkill with our current W-2 income.

Since we’re both full time W-2 earners with a 3 family unit for investment, it appears that deferring until one of us is a full time investors would be the way to go. Thoughts?

[Greg O'Brien]

@Will Smith @Lee Li feel free to send me a message to see if we may be able to help or guide you to a reasonable solution if that does not work out.  I am a Certified Tax Planning with a firm that specializing in this type of work (without the overhead). 

Greg

[M Fisher]

This thread is old but useful. I read it before signing on with Wealthability Nov2019. Bottom line up front – I’m not happy with the service and I likely wasted 5k. Here is the story:

I have read all of the Rich Dad Books. Ton Wheelwright wrote one very good Rich Dad book and he is quoted in many others. The Garret Sutton Books are GREAT and I have used his service to create LLCs. More on that in a bit. So what I really wanted from Wealthablity was a CPA firm with the Rich Dad philosophy.

The Wealthability program is a set of video lessons of Tom teaching his book. The lessons are right out of his book. There are some useful worksheets and tools – but not work thousands. Again – refer to his book.

A Wealthability rep first offered me the “program” for 15k. I said no thanks. Next she offered the same thing for 5k. I said ok let’s try it. It took from Nov 1 2019 to Dec 12 before I was able to talk to my referred CPA firm. That is 30 days right there so they later argue that I am not able to get a refund.

After talking to the assigned CPA representative from the firm (in another state), I said I wanted to talk to the CPA team – and hear about the qualifications of the team. This is Tom’s advice. We set up a call for January (earliest possible) and in the meantime she created a “RoadMap” which was a power point side with shapes to represent entities I may want to set up. That was it.

Jan 6 2020 I have the call with the CPA. Michael from SMEED Inc acted mildly offended that I wanted to ask about his qualifications, philosophy, and services. Still we all tried to be civil while my husband and I asked what we wanted to know. Michael assured us he provides value to his customers.

Not assured, I contacted my Wealthability rep Brad and asked for a new CPA.  He tried to "make it right' by talking to us to change our minds – but ultimately nothing changed. SMEED did not provide intake forms or ask us about our current situation or timeline or even look at our taxes before sending us an invoice for the 2020 taxes they were going to do. I contacted Brad again and I still have not received a reply.

Instead of wasting money on Wealthability – buy and read all of the Rich Dad books – particularly the ones by Garret Sutton. Then get a good friendly local CPA.

[M Fisher]

@Julian H. @Will

@Will Smith  See my post above.

[Brianne Dylla]

Hello 

My husband and I just got off our consultation call with Wealthability team. They quoted $15k which seems to be a similar number for many. We both have W-2 jobs, two single family rentals, and a cattle business. The sticker shock has me almost not even considering the service, but if I was able to get it for a lesser price, may consider. Any tips, advice, or guidance from anyone is appreciated. Seems a few of you have used their services, any feedback on the CPAs, money savings, tax savings, wealth strategies. They also talked about setting the LLC's up in different states, anyone else have this advice?

Thank you

[Tom Wheelwright]

The question is really what you want to accomplish with your CPA. I used to do tax planning the everyone else does it. When a client had a question or a transaction, I would respond with an answer. Over the years, I discovered that many business owners and investors would like a partner in helping them with long-term tax planning and wealth strategies. So we created the WealthAbility process. We now have over 40 CPA and tax advisory firms using this process with their clients. If you just want quick answers, I would recommend against WealthAbility. We are at our best when we are partners with our clients and speak to them on a monthly basis. I hope this helps with some understanding of what WealthAbility is about. Please let me know if you have any questions at all. I’m happy to respond.

[Julius Oni]

Thank you for responding Tom. Obviously, you are very knowledgeable and the reason why most people look into WealthAbility in the first place. I do have a question for you: Why is it that there is no transparency with regard to quotes for setting up prospective clients? Brianne Dylla above was quoted $15K for "W-2 jobs, two single family rentals, and a cattle business" and I was quoted 20K for my less complex profile. Many others were quoted other amounts on some other threads I read; and the only conclusion that makes sense is that the quotes are 'mostly' based on income. Would you be able to shed some light on this process? 

[Tom Wheelwright]

Julius: Unfortunately, it's not that simple though I wish it was. Our pricing is based largely on what we believe it will take to accomplish the goals of the client. Sometimes, what seems to be simple on the outside is actually more complicated. Let me give you an example. Suppose someone came to us with a large W-2 income and very few investments. Reducing this person's taxes would be far more difficult than reducing a professional real estate investor's taxes. We very much try to personalize the experience while following our proven process for tax reduction. We are very upfront with prospective clients about the costs and never hide them. Consider that most accountants could not even tell you up front how much their services will cost. That's why they charge hourly rates instead of a flat fee. Those are truly hidden costs.

[Julius Oni]

Thank you Tom for the clarification. I appreciate all that you do to educate us all about taxes and legal tax reduction strategies. 

[Tracy Tsoi]

Hi,

I am a realtor for over 12+ years, I am also a real estate investor, I’m sure I spend more than 750 hours a year in real estate for myself and my client. So I do qualify as real estate professional, correct? My cpa told me I still can’t use the passive loss (negative K1 from syndication deal) To offset my real estate income (mainly commission). Is that true? Or I need to hire another cpa who do the tax for me? I search wealth ability refer from a GP in a syndication deal. Wealthability quoted me $15000 include tax planning and filing one personal and one business tax for one year? I am debating where to ask and go.  Pls help and clarify, and want to make sure to spend the money wisely 🙏🏻

[Lane Kawaoka]

Something my clients are doing for Real estate professional status is getting a little dinky Air BNB and they change sheets 750 hours a year in them

@Tracy Tsoi Maybe I can help point you in the right direction for someone willing to check the box for you

[Eamonn McElroy]

@Tracy Tsoi

Are you a limited partner in a US Limited Partnership?

[Eamonn McElroy]

@Lane Kawaoka

"willing to check the box"...a little dangerous...

The taxpayer is ultimately responsible for what's on their return.  Because of that, it's better to find someone who knows what they're doing, rather than someone willing to sign as preparer for frivolous tax positions.

[Tom Wheelwright]

Hi @Tracy Tsoi,

Hi Tracy, In addition to the 750 hour rule, another rule that needs to be satisfied is spending more hours in real estate than all other activity. The question I would encourage be asked is “How can you qualify as a real estate professional and unlock these benefits?” Have your tax advisor walk you through the rules, craft a strategy and ensure you’re doing it correctly. Our process would certainly walk you through that as part of a full analysis and determine a best course of action. Reach out to our team if we can clarify anything else for you.