If You Never Want To Hear About Columbus In the Forums Again, Reply Here

[Jonathan Greene]

Do you feel continuously assaulted by the Columbus Mafia on BiggerPockets?

If any newbie utters the word Columbus, Midwest, or Ohio, the entire brokerage descends upon the forums with post after post. It's absolute madness. I believe this behavior also goes over the DMs.

In the beginning, it was funny. Now, it is spammy. If you read the majority of the replies by the Columbus Mafia, it's only about Columbus or the general area. Some of the responders know more than others, but some are just complete spammers. It's a strategy.

I've been answering questions on BiggerPockets for 10 years and never once asked for business or DM'd for business. People find me because I answer questions, sometimes about the area, most of the time about investing. If we built a spreadsheet of the overall responses from the Mafia and how many were veiled attempts at business, I would bet it is close to 80 percent.

I know I am not the only one annoyed every day, so please post your thoughts here so BiggerPockets can review them.

I do know someone who bought multiple properties with a former Mafia member and the properties are still performing so this isn't a referenda on how good the agents are. I have not personally worked with them. What this is about is the constant and unabashed spam sham on every post that mentions anything even close to Ohio. Like maybe just round robin it, bros. Watching you all post after each other is embarrassing.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Mike Dymski:

The forums are full of spam, OH and otherwise.  The mods can't stop it, unless the definition of spam is opened up or posting is disallowed based on vote ratio.

I completely agree with this. I report 4-5 posts a day. Another big issue is now is people (including moderators) form posting the same responses. And then there are all of the AI posts. It's losing it's luster from people connecting by long lists as replies. It's obvious.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Rick Albert:

The problem is agents are on here for the sole purpose of finding business, not necessarily contributing to the community.

In the posts, I do not (or at least not intentionally) spam anyone. I only post if I can provide actual value. This can be from personal experience or the experiences from my clients. Because of this, I've had people reach out to me directly and we have done business together. It is about adding value, not promoting yourself. 

As I said in the opener, I have been on here for 10 years and never once even mentioned I am an agent or I can help. That is for people to figure out and I don't want all the spam calls anyway. I am here, and have been for years in the forums, to help save people from disaster and give them honest advice, not back pats.

Another major problem is that BP made BP verified agents and sold that as a thing, but you need no experience to be in that group. I think it was a bad move. Agent spam is not terrible outside of Columbus, but the general spam from lenders is CATASTROPHIC and I report all of it.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Michael P.:

I like how they hire VA's to up-vote every single post in every single forum, makes me feel better about myself!

This is the beginning of the end if you ask me. BP should run a reverse search to see who upvotes their posts.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Rene Hosman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Do you feel continuously assaulted by the Columbus Mafia on BiggerPockets?

If any newbie utters the word Columbus, Midwest, or Ohio, the entire brokerage descends upon the forums with post after post. It's absolute madness. I believe this behavior also goes over the DMs.

In the beginning, it was funny. Now, it is spammy. If you read the majority of the replies by the Columbus Mafia, it's only about Columbus or the general area. Some of the responders know more than others, but some are just complete spammers. It's a strategy.

I've been answering questions on BiggerPockets for 10 years and never once asked for business or DM'd for business. People find me because I answer questions, sometimes about the area, most of the time about investing. If we built a spreadsheet of the overall responses from the Mafia and how many were veiled attempts at business, I would bet it is close to 80 percent.

I know I am not the only one annoyed every day, so please post your thoughts here so BiggerPockets can review them.

I do know someone who bought multiple properties with a former Mafia member and the properties are still performing so this isn't a referenda on how good the agents are. I have not personally worked with them. What this is about is the constant and unabashed spam sham on every post that mentions anything even close to Ohio. Like maybe just round robin it, bros. Watching you all post after each other is embarrassing.

 Thank you for this @Jonathan Greene ! This phenomena has not gone unnoticed, when you see spammy self promotion please don't hesitate to hit report and we will review! We do our best to keep the community a place for real people to exchange real ideas about real estate but it takes all of us to keep it functioning properly by doing our best, putting our best foot forward, and aiming to give more than we take.

I've been here for years, as have many of my friends. I mark SO MUCH as spam, but it comes back up. We have a major AI reply problem on the site and copy and pasting, MAJOR. Lender spam is out of control. Agent spam is mostly focused around Columbus and a couple other markets. I have marked profiles as spam and not much happens.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Becca F.:

I've talked to at least 2 aspiring California investors in the last 2 months, who said they were DM'ed by Ohio agents, one of whom received 12 DMs from ReafCo.  I've posted on here for over 2 years and I would consider that spam. Person #1 has now deleted his account. Person #2 said they were going to just ignore the Columbus agents DMs. A while ago another CA investor said he felt like BP sounded like it was becoming like a sales convention.  

I even started a post 2 months ago asking the Ohio agents, particularly the Columbus agents to give me specific examples with numbers, not giving out client's names or property address instead of the same spammy comments we've all seen. I gave my own specific example of one of my properties (Indianapolis) and this is what I was asking for

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/1203206-quest...

Notice who comments, especially the one who says "tons of examples of 1% cash flow" but can't name one. 

I was also DM'd by a ReafCo agent recently and politely said I will no longer be investing in the Midwest and not interested in buying in Ohio

I commented very recently on a someone asking about Bay Area investing, giving very specific information my local area to help this person out and no surprise... a Columbus agent comments on this post. 

I went back and read that forum post, and it is as clear as day. You ask very long and detailed questions asking for proof of concept for the area and multiple agents answer you in one line or two lines, no specifics. It's comical.

[Charles Perkins]

I have no opinion about Ohio other than I have no desire to invest there.  It does seem like there are a lot of posts about Ohio though and most of the time I ignore them.

[V.G Jason]

I don't blame Columbus, I blame the agents.

Columbus being a viable, investment option is fine. The cartel that just annihilates this forum with their nonsense needs to be trimmed. I don't fault the city, I fault it's players. They should all be warned and suspended if behavior continues. BP Jail basically. 

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Michael P.:

I like how they hire VA's to up-vote every single post in every single forum, makes me feel better about myself!

This is the beginning of the end if you ask me. BP should run a reverse search to see who upvotes their posts.

 We do catch this - not all of them, obviously, there's just too many threads in a day for that to be possible - and anyone caught doing this is banished. So continue to report anyone you see that is just a shill for trying to upvote or popularize a thread. 

Is it annoying? Yes, for sure, and as @Jay Hinrichs mentions, a little comical. Technically they aren't breaking any rules as long as they're not specifically promoting themselves. There's no rule against promoting your "area" so to speak; if we made that a rule half the posts from realtors and turnkey operators would have to come down. Personally I think it shows bad form from them by what they do, and I personally doubt it is helping their business at all by being a shameless drum beater instead of an honest purveyor of the area. 

[Becca F.]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

As I said in the opener, I have been on here for 10 years and never once even mentioned I am an agent or I can help. That is for people to figure out and I don't want all the spam calls anyway. I am here, and have been for years in the forums, to help save people from disaster and give them honest advice, not back pats.

Another major problem is that BP made BP verified agents and sold that as a thing, but you need no experience to be in that group. I think it was a bad move. Agent spam is not terrible outside of Columbus, but the general spam from lenders is CATASTROPHIC and I report all of it.

Speaking of catastrophic lending, I was almost scammed by this guy, Justin Nguyen, who contacted me on BP. He wanted to do a double close (I would receive my money back plus the 7% or 12% interest within 24 to 48 hours), and have me wire his fake title company money. He literally harassed me over the phone after I told him multiple times that I wasn't loaning him money. Thanks to @Jay Hinrichs who reviewed the documents the fake title company sent me and said there were so many things wrong. Unfortunately other people fell victim to Justin's scheme. Not sure what happened with this case - hopefully he's prosecuted and convicted. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/49/topics/1168199-fraud...

[Jonathan Klemm]

Who is the Columbus mafia @Jonathan Greene and what are they about?  

My guy @Michael K Gallagher is in that area and same with @Jeff Long...are guys at all familiar with this Mafia?

I am not aware of them and not sure about the other @Moderators, but will definitely make sure to keep a closer eye out for a spam like posts.

[Don Konipol]

This “thing” about Ohio being a great investment opportunity pre packaged by real estate companies has been on going at least from 2004.  They used to issue glossy brochures as inserts to real estate magazines, which were actually very light on articles and very heavy on insert ads.  

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Jonathan Klemm:

Who is the Columbus mafia @Jonathan Greene and what are they about?  

My guy @Michael K Gallagher is in that area and same with @Jeff Long...are guys at all familiar with this Mafia?

I am not aware of them and not sure about the other @Moderators, but will definitely make sure to keep a closer eye out for a spam like posts.

It's ReafCo and their agents. Everyone is aware. They technically tow the line for post compliance, but the problem is that it is widespread and annoying. And if you read the link in @Becca F.'s first reply here you can see that they won't answer a question with specifics. I don't mind helpful tips on areas, but this is way over the line. If anyone mentions being new and wanting to invest, one in particular pops in and talks about Columbus immediately. I have replied on many threads about it and reported the posts as spam and they are never removed because as I said, on their own, the posts are likely in compliance.

We all know the monitoring is very hard on a site with this many posts, but this is a constant complaint from most people I know, which is a lot of people.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Becca F.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

As I said in the opener, I have been on here for 10 years and never once even mentioned I am an agent or I can help. That is for people to figure out and I don't want all the spam calls anyway. I am here, and have been for years in the forums, to help save people from disaster and give them honest advice, not back pats.

Another major problem is that BP made BP verified agents and sold that as a thing, but you need no experience to be in that group. I think it was a bad move. Agent spam is not terrible outside of Columbus, but the general spam from lenders is CATASTROPHIC and I report all of it.

Speaking of catastrophic lending, I was almost scammed by this guy, Justin Nguyen, who contacted me on BP. He wanted to do a double close (I would receive my money back plus the 7% or 12% interest within 24 to 48 hours), and have me wire his fake title company money. He literally harassed me over the phone after I told him multiple times that I wasn't loaning him money. Thanks to @Jay Hinrichs who reviewed the documents the fake title company sent me and said there were so many things wrong. Unfortunately other people fell victim to Justin's scheme. Not sure what happened with this case - hopefully he's prosecuted and convicted. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/49/topics/1168199-fraud...

This is what worries me about the Agents and Lenders feature on BP and how much vetting goes into it. I doubt this person was in that group, but there are predatory and fake lenders and AI documents everywhere now.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @V.G Jason:

I don't blame Columbus, I blame the agents.

Columbus being a viable, investment option is fine. The cartel that just annihilates this forum with their nonsense needs to be trimmed. I don't fault the city, I fault it's players. They should all be warned and suspended if behavior continues. BP Jail basically. 

Yeah, that's the thing - Columbus is a good market in theory, but not to the tune they are propping it up without confirmed returns and data of other clients. All markets are good, but we don't want any post on the midwest swarmed by the same people. It takes it out of the market and the investors there who are a MUCH better source than the agents looking for business.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @Michael P.:

I like how they hire VA's to up-vote every single post in every single forum, makes me feel better about myself!

This is the beginning of the end if you ask me. BP should run a reverse search to see who upvotes their posts.

 We do catch this - not all of them, obviously, there's just too many threads in a day for that to be possible - and anyone caught doing this is banished. So continue to report anyone you see that is just a shill for trying to upvote or popularize a thread. 

Is it annoying? Yes, for sure, and as @Jay Hinrichs mentions, a little comical. Technically they aren't breaking any rules as long as they're not specifically promoting themselves. There's no rule against promoting your "area" so to speak; if we made that a rule half the posts from realtors and turnkey operators would have to come down. Personally I think it shows bad form from them by what they do, and I personally doubt it is helping their business at all by being a shameless drum beater instead of an honest purveyor of the area. 

Just an example on this - "we made that a rule half the posts from realtors and turnkey operators would have to come down." I think that rule would be worth it. I have replied to posts for more than 10 years on New Jersey and other areas I invest and never homered it or asked for business here or in the DMs because that's bad business. You allow people to contact you.

If BP were to run a check on the DMs that go out from some of those guys, they would be banned immediately. It's a very hard site to moderate and you guys who do it to help are a big help, but it's so widespread now with spam from agents and lenders, AI posting, and cut and paste posts that it is MUCH HARDER for newbies to get good answers.

[Jonathan Greene]

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

 Future Uber drivers are typically non confrontational.

[Remington Lyman]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Keep the discussion online. Jon Green vs Remi Lyman is the fight we didn't know we needed!

[Jonathan Greene]

I have no issue with you @Remington Lyman. We have spoken before. But I don't believe in anything offline. It's why I don't talk on the phone. Everything I do I want out in the open about stuff like this, but I respect your position.

One thing I will say though is that saying "we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums" is basically saying you are in compliance, but we both know what that means. As I have said if BiggerPockets runs a DM check on some of your agents, they would likely get tossed.

If you personally review the forum that @Becca F. posted, you will see where one of the main issues is. You can't do everything offline when people come here to get the knowledge in the forums so it's evergreen.

I appreciate you showing up here though.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Keep the discussion online. Jon Green vs Remi Lyman is the fight we didn't know we needed!

I don't go offline ever. I am an attorney. Everything documented all the time for clarity and transparency.

[James Wise]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Keep the discussion online. Jon Green vs Remi Lyman is the fight we didn't know we needed!

I don't go offline ever. I am an attorney. Everything documented all the time for clarity and transparency.

Same.....Has been a HoltonWise company policy for over 10 years.

[Remington Lyman]

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Keep the discussion online. Jon Green vs Remi Lyman is the fight we didn't know we needed!

I don't go offline ever. I am an attorney. Everything documented all the time for clarity and transparency.

Just to clarify, I would like to have this conversation over Google Meet rather than on a forum. I can use my Fathom IA software to record the meeting, capture key points, and create a transcript. I will then share it with you for your reference.

The purpose of this meeting is to have a productive discussion about how I can improve my company to benefit the BP community and the company's financial growth in a way that adds value to the stakeholders of BP.

I am married to a corporate big law attorney and employ many others. I believe in thorough documentation for clarity and transparency, which is also a requirement as a licensed brokerage for the Ohio Division of Real Estate.

[Jonathan Greene]

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

Quote from @James Wise:

Quote from @Remington Lyman:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

And let me just point out the most important thing. They all have alerts for Columbus on, and Midwest, and everything else we are talking about...and not a single one has popped in to defend themselves.

If someone called me out in the forums and it was valid and responded to and confirmed by others, I would either admit my playbook, show up, or respond in some way.

Hey @Jonathan Greene, I am one of the founders, 50% owner, and principal broker of Reafco. I would be happy to have a conversation with you off the forums. You can post on this thread after your takeaways from the meeting, but I do not believe in arguing over a public forum. Ultimately, I want to add value to BP since it helped me tremendously with my personal real estate investing even before I was licensed. The last thing I want to do is get banned from using it. I have been in communication with @Scott Trench about the topics you have raised, and I believe we are operating in line with what management is currently allowing on the forums.

Booooooooooooooooooooo. Keep the discussion online. Jon Green vs Remi Lyman is the fight we didn't know we needed!

I don't go offline ever. I am an attorney. Everything documented all the time for clarity and transparency.

Just to clarify, I would like to have this conversation over Google Meet rather than on a forum. I can use my Fathom IA software to record the meeting, capture key points, and create a transcript. I will then share it with you for your reference.

The purpose of this meeting is to have a productive discussion about how I can improve my company to benefit the BP community and the company's financial growth in a way that adds value to the stakeholders of BP.

I am married to a corporate big law attorney and employ many others. I believe in thorough documentation for clarity and transparency, which is also a requirement as a licensed brokerage for the Ohio Division of Real Estate.

Works for me if we share the recorded link back in this same forum.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Quote from @Becca F.:

Quote from @Jonathan Greene:

As I said in the opener, I have been on here for 10 years and never once even mentioned I am an agent or I can help. That is for people to figure out and I don't want all the spam calls anyway. I am here, and have been for years in the forums, to help save people from disaster and give them honest advice, not back pats.

Another major problem is that BP made BP verified agents and sold that as a thing, but you need no experience to be in that group. I think it was a bad move. Agent spam is not terrible outside of Columbus, but the general spam from lenders is CATASTROPHIC and I report all of it.

Speaking of catastrophic lending, I was almost scammed by this guy, Justin Nguyen, who contacted me on BP. He wanted to do a double close (I would receive my money back plus the 7% or 12% interest within 24 to 48 hours), and have me wire his fake title company money. He literally harassed me over the phone after I told him multiple times that I wasn't loaning him money. Thanks to @Jay Hinrichs who reviewed the documents the fake title company sent me and said there were so many things wrong. Unfortunately other people fell victim to Justin's scheme. Not sure what happened with this case - hopefully he's prosecuted and convicted. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/49/topics/1168199-fraud...

Becca always happy to help  I may not be right all the time but I am never wrong LOL.
this guy was pretty easy to sniff out.. And many other experienced BP members could have and or would have came to the same conclusion I did in the 10 minutes it took me to figure out the guy was a total Fraud.