What am I doing wrong? All agents so far have been flaky at best.

[Craig Parsons]

So we have been actively looking for investment properties for 2 years now. Fortunately we were able to purchase one and are in the rehab process. But even getting the first one took finding 3 realtors. So here is the story.

About 3 years ago I was looking to purchase property in a small Idaho town that we want to retire to sometime in the future. We already have a personal residence there but we're looking for a few fixer uppers that we could buy rehab and then rent down the road. At this point in time I had NEVER watched a flipping show or heard of BP. My plan was to buy a few cheap to me properties and just pay the mortgage with my California bay area wages. So we won't even discuss my horrible use of my cash. Anyway I find a place 50k on zillow and click the contact agent button. We'll after a few text messages I finally talked to an agent. After about 15 minutes he says " hey I have to go I will call you right back." That was 3 years ago I'm still waiting. Flake #1

So my next tactic was to Google the agent listed on the property and call her direct. We met and few weeks later I told her I was willing to make an offer but needed to know if I could even get a bank loan on a property that needed some rehab. She said "no problem we will do owner financing" I said great I can give 20% down and Made offer for 45k. this property had been listed for 6 months so I thought that warranted a price reduction. So we go back and forth a few times and she told me the owners do not wish to carry and they want full price. I said ok thank you but if you have anything else come up please let me know. 2 1/2 years later I have not heard from her. Flake #2

So here is the best part about flake #2. She was the listing agent on the house we finally purchased but we used a buyers agent because honestly from my first experience and the fact she never called me made me scared to use her.

So for the house we bought I just happened to be walking by her office and asked her if she would be willing to show me a house I had found on zillow. She said yes and she did help us purchase the property. Her service however has been lackluster at best. The last time I was in town I told her I would be there for 2 weeks and wanted to see three property. And please let me know when she could fit it in her schedule. She never called me back. But I will take some blame for this since I maybe could of pressed her harder. On the other hand I am a proven buyer in a very small market.

Ok so fast forward a till the last month after I found bigger pockets and the small Multi family game. I found a triplex I was interested in called the agent went back and forth a few time. I told her I had bank financing approved but was interested in if the owners wanted to carry back the down. She told me she didn't think they would but would ask and get back to me. Guess what! That was 3 weeks ago and still have not heard from her.

So after reading about the cash flow opportunities in the Midwest I have contacted 3 listing agents all who have multiple small multi family rentals listed . With 1 response from a guy who told me he had a family function he was headed to and what would be a good time to call me the next day. I said great told him a time and still have not heard from him. The other 2 agents have not responded to my e-mail.

Sorry for the long post but am I wrong to judge these peoplez work ethic on their lack of responsiveness or should I be prodding them harder? I have no problem contacting 100 agents but want to make sure I am not judging them too harshly.

Thanks for reading my novella! Not trying to whine just be more effective.

[Brian Garlington]

@Craig Parsons

@Craig Parsons   When I was initially looking at buying in the midwest, those are the responses I got from agents......I also know that many agents in the midwest cringe when they hear someone is interested in a 50K property and they want seller financing. A lot will also cringe when they hear "Cash Buyer".

A friendly suggestion is that you get pre-approved with a lender. When an agen hears from a potential buyer that they have a pre-approval letter in hand and (and am looking to buy and close within 60 days you will be taken much more seriously. 

Even if ultimately you still will pay cash or want seller financing it is still OK to get pre-approved with a lender if you want to be taken more seriously....I see it all the time.

[Craig Parsons]

@Brian Garlington

Again I didnt ask for owner financing. The agent brought it up.

In the third case I told the agent I had financing in place but I did ask if the owners were willing to carry back the down. I also explained this was in no way a deal killer I just wanted to know my options.

I do appreciate everyone's input. I have no problem looking for my own buyers agent and even getting ignored by more than one.

I just never conceived that someone tasked with selling a property would be so nonchalant with prospective buyers.

[Nicole Lee]

@Mike Baxter it sucks when people have bad agents or “busy” agents because everyone deserves good service. I know you mentioned listing on your own, I may have some buyers interested depending on the property. Would love to bring them by if you are open.

Also open to help you as an agent as well.

[Michelle Bechard]

@Craig Parsons

Hi Craig, I’ve been in sales for a couple of years. My bet is those agents had more work than they could handle and haven’t yet figured out how to handle leads. I’d encourage you to keep trying and maybe give a newbie a try as they may work extra hard to get the business and also have the time to get back to you in a timely fashion.

[Ivonne H. Magdaleno]

@Craig Parsons Hello Craig. You've received some great advice here and also some good opinions from many investors.

With regards to the agents you contacted, please don't take it personal. As an agent, I can personally tell you it's very easy from the point of view of an investor to judge th work of agents without really knowing how they work. It seems to me you are missing the part of a relationship with an agent. All agents will not work with investors. You need to find one that does and ask them how they work and what you should expect of them. Interview first. I develop relationships with people first. As for recommendations in the area you are interested in. Look for off market properties. With a hot market listed properties on the MLS will likely sell for full or more than asking price. Asking an agent who represents the seller, to place an offer on your behalf that is less than market price with owner financing is not even a consideration for a Seller. The agent should have called you back to say NO, at the very least. Remember, to get your own representation. Seller's agents have an obligation to the Seller. That's it.

You need to find out if a buyer's agent is a FULL TIME agent and works with investors.

Honestly, the market at this time seems to be hot everywhere. Learn to generate OFF MARKET leads and make offers in writing to Sellers after you develop rapport with them. This is a people first business.

It may take time to find the right agent. Keep looking. I agree that a new agent will most likely be a better option because they'll work harder, but the trade off is lack of experience.

Look for the right agent. Find someone who will represent you and works with investors. You need to do your work first. Don't expect red carpet service. Be qualified with a loan up front. If paying cash, you'll need proof of funds to give with your offer. Make sure you have all the documents you'll need when making an offer.

Ask others in the forums if they have a recommendation for an investor friendly agent, or meet one at a local REIA or meet up.

You can obtain a list of agents through the city's local REALTOR Association. Call title companies and ask if they can refer you agents who work with investors.

Best of luck.

[Kade Lucero]

@Craig Parsons VERY FIRST line “So we have been actively looking for an investment property for two years now”. I would have written you off right then. Waited for you to finish and then get you off the phone. I don’t mean to be rude, I’m just being honest as an agent. You also wanted to buy something seller financed and that to us means you’re not qualified and it’s more work. Yes, a lot of agents are flakes as with any industry, YOU have to keep on them, but in this case it’s how you’re approaching them. Honestly in this day and age most serious buyers will bring a property to us saying “this is the one I’m interested in” we really don’t look for properties for people anymore when you can find exactly what you want online with all the info. As far as the properties you’re calling the listing agent on, they are disqualifying you on the phone based on offering lowering than asking (or right now not offering above asking) or based on how long you’ve been looking or other small tells that we’ve come to realize means you’re not serious.

And let’s be honest. Have you not found a deal you wanted in 2 years? You say you’ve seen a few and called on them, but if you really liked the deal and were serious you would have hounded the agent. You really aren’t serious. Realtors have the greatest “sixth  sense” of anyone I know. Even the tone of your voice or saying a word as simple as “earnest money” in our first conversation will put us off because the only way you’d know that is if you’ve done a lot of deals (which you haven’t) or you’ve talked to a lot of agents. What are the odds of us writing something up if I’m the 10th agent you’ve called? Just as an example. Again, I apologize if I’m being too direct, but I wanted to be transparent about how an agent thinks. I probably still wouldn’t take your call.

[Chris Pasternak]

You're a contractor right?

If I call you and say "hey I'm interested in obtaining a quote on replacement of my bathroom towel bar and I live 30 minutes away from your office"

No guarantee of a job and a tiny job at that and it's taking an hour drive time and that's with 0 interaction with the consumer.  Hourly rate? Negative.

What do you say?  If you're good, busy (as you should be if you're good) and a nice guy you're probably at BEST calling them to refer them to your best friends cousin that is just getting started in the business.  

On the flip side when you tell your best friends cousin that he's got a job to quote he does one of two things.  A. Whines that it's too far the job is too small and he has other things to do.  OR B. He drops the fork in his hand throws his coat on and is driving to the person's house with phone on bluetooth because safe driving and he books a job.

[Craig Parsons]

@Kade Lucero. I realize that this was a long post. So I do not expect you to have read the whole thing. Maybe to this forum actively looking needs explanation. Yes I have been looking for 2 years. But this meant looking through zillow in my preferred town. I only found BP 1 month ago. So I guess actively is not the right term. Secondly I do not need seller financing. However if it is wrong to see all my options before making a deal please let me know. If the realtor does not want to deal with that they should just say so.

I guess my post should of been How do you get an on market property Realtor to give you a call back.

I have never told anybody I am an investor. I may of said I'm looking at a house an agent has listed and maybe some others that is all.

[Craig Parsons]

@Kade Luceroso if I call you and say hi I'm interested in the property you have listed at 123 xyz street you would ignore me?

[Craig Parsons]

@Chris Pasternak

I have been waiting for this one and it is a fair point. Honestly if someone contacts me about a job I do not want to do I usually ignore them. This is why I'm asking the whole question. If I contact a realtor who has a house listed and they don't return my call is it safe to assume they don't care or are too busy and move on or should I press harder. I am actually very conscious of not wanting to take up time of busy people.

[Sunny Hon]

@Craig Parsons

The truth is most people don’t have what it takes to be successful.

[David Dachtera]

@Craig Parsons,

Most agents / brokers (whether they Realtors(TM) or not) are not investors themselves, and don't understand investors - nor do they want to. They want the easy, plain-vanilla owner-occupant end-buyer without complications, low-ball offers, etc.

They'll dodge the curve balls rather than embrace the opportunities they don't understand. Once you "throw them a curve" (ask about owner carry-back, etc.), they "gotta go, talk to you later".

By the way ... I recommend to -NEVER- ask about "owner financing". You'll permanently poison the relationship. There are other words and strategies for the same thing which can brought up without killing the deal in one phrase.

What can be useful is to locate and connect with local investor groups where you will meet other investors including those who are brokers / agents and also are investors themselves. Then, at least, you'll speak more of the same language and have investing goals in common.

My $0.02 ...

[Kade Lucero]

@Craig Parsons Honestly it depends. I usually ask qualifying questions before I show a home and if you didn’t pass the sniff test I would say “ let me see what’s available and I’ll call you back” and never call back. We just get so many inquiries, especially right now, we don’t want to waste our time. We have people that call us that say they have all cash, they’re willing to pay above asking, they’re willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars over the appraisal, etc. If someone doesn’t know exactly what they want we move on.

If you want an agent to respond to you I would first get pre approved or proof of funds if paying cash, figure out exactly what kind of property you’re looking for specifically, find it on Zillow, then google brokerages in that area and pick up the phone.  tell them you want to buy the specific property and email them your proof of funds or a preapproval letter and ask THEM what you should offer. If you tell them you want to offer anything under asking it’s not going to happen. If they’re not responsive, I don’t seem interested, call someone else. This is something that most investors on here won’t tell you, but if you’re looking to hold these properties for a long period of time it really doesn’t matter what you pay as long as it’s in a good area and cash flows some.  it’s hard to do much better than that in this market, especially if you’re buying in a different state.

[Chris Pasternak]

Craig Parsons, I think you answered your own question.  Yes you should move on to another agent.  In reference to our conversation...you're looking for option "B" in our conversation.  The rising star. The hungry for business new agent that sees every opportunity as a stepping stone to improvement.  They're out there.  They're the future 20% that do 80% of the deals.

[Craig Parsons]

@Chris Pasternak

Thanks and I have no problem with that. I just need to know I am not being too hasty in my process.

There have been times when very large jobs have been presented to me and I just didn't have the time. But in those cases I have explained to the customer how busy I was and how taking their job would be bad for both of us if I could not perform. This usually works and I still get calls from them at later times. The one thing I have found out is never say "I may" "I might " because to customers this sounds like a contract written in blood.

Again thanks I think you understood my problem the best. I do know that what makes sense in my head may not make sense to others.

[Chris Pasternak]

Hey you're welcome.  Best of luck and Happy Easter

[Bob Collett]

@Craig Parsons  Hi Craig.  Here are some thoughts.

First it is usually a waste of time to call listing agents for many reasons.  A listing agent by definition specializes in getting listings.  Many investors think they will get a better deal by contacting the listing agent directly. Its just not the case. The listing agent relies on buyer's agents to show the property and bring the buyer.

Next, search for one Buyer's Agent who has experience working with investors... and is willing to work in the $50,000 to $75,000 price range.  ONE AGENT... not 100 agents.  It is true, that most experienced agents do not have time to work the $50,000 market.  Also, many do not want to travel into less desirable neighborhoods.  Find an agent that is active in the neighborhoods that you want to buy. The idea that you are going to work with multiple agents will drive them away from you.  Find one agent who meets your criteria, and then work with him or her exclusively in that market. 

Do your job and carefully define your criteria.  Don't go in and say I am looking for single family properties, or two family properties, or multifamily properties... or properties in a dozen different neighborhoods.  Talk to your agent and select one or two nearby neighborhoods in which to work.  Select one property type.  Determine your required ROR.  Find an agent who is active in those neighborhoods and has a history of working with investors.  Ask your property manager if they like one or two agents who are known to work with investors.

You can start by asking the BUYER'S AGENT how many investment properties under $100k they helped their clients buy in the past year or two. Get them into a conversation about ROI and Cap rates, just to make sure they understand some basic concepts. Most agents probably do not.

Next, forget about making low ball offers in this market.  Some investors think that if a property is listed at $60,000 then they should automatically offer at a discount to the $60,000 even without a proper analysis.  Do your analysis then make an offer based upon your required rate of return.  Let your Buyer's agent know what your required rate of return is on day one.  That way you are not wasting each other's time.

Many inexperienced and some experienced agents do not value their agents time.  Keep in mind that an agent has two things to sell... time and experience.  For example, would you be willing to pay an agent $400 - $500 per day to run around with you and show you houses?  I am not suggesting that you pay a Buyer's agent this way... but I am suggesting that you value his or her time and expertise.  

Next, do not expect an agent to be excited about working with you if you regularly make offers below fair market value.  Why would an agent want you as a client, when they have other buyers who are ready and able to buy at above list price to get the property.

Best of luck finding your next property

Bob Collett

[Craig Parsons]

@Bob Collett

Excellent info thank you!

I thought I was doing the listing agent a favor by showing up and saying hey I want to buy your property.

[John Walker]

@Craig Parsons Unfortunately, your story is common. I’m a Realtor and investor. The two main reasons that realtors suck at helping investors is because they are intimidated by the lack of knowledge they possess and they feel like the lower price points aren’t “worth it”. Primarily, it’s the first reason. Many agents will hustle for any commission but they are scared to death that they don’t know what’s a good deal or how to answer difficult questions.

I would keep searching until you find a good fit. There are some great investor friendly agents out there. Sounds like others on this thread can echo the same. Good luck and Best Wishes!

[Bob Collett]

Craig

That is a reasonable conclusion... but often not true... especially when investors are involved. In any case, a listing agent cannot represent your best interests, and working with a buyer can be perceived as a conflict of interest. 
This is especially true when listing bank owned properties. Some listing agents won’t even take calls from buyers... others will refer buyers to a 3rd party agent to avoid dual agency issues. 
Find a good buyers agent when working the MLS and let he or she know you want to buy several properties with him... one at a time. A good buyers agent will help you make smart decisions.

Bob

[Bob Collett]

@Kade Lucero ... good points

Bob

[Gus Lembo]

@Craig Parsons I am in CA and there’s more real estate flakes that in any kitchen in the US!

I think many people are in because they have that one listing and flame out. I had agents post their sign on the property and never come back or answer the phone. My first home bought was about who answered the phone, not what home we wanted. After selling that one, we had a hard time buying another one because agents wanted to double dip, so their first question was “Do you have an agent?” And if you said yes, the phone didn’t get answered any more. Thanks to sticking with the agent that helped us buy our second home, we were able to buy other properties. So JUST DONT GIVE UP! I am in the process of buying properties in Michigan and have reached out to many agents, and everyone in BiggerPockets has returned my emails and calls which I am truly greatful. If investing was easy, every one would do it! Happy house hunting

[Matthew A Rodriguez]

@Craig Parsons

Get your RE license, cut out the middle man, and get paid a commission. Take the problem into your own hands.

[Gus Lembo]

@Russell Brazil why take the listing if they are not serving the client? I don’t see how this is a good point. The more you sell, the more you make.

[Russell Brazil]

Originally posted by @Gus Lembo:

@Russell Brazil why take the listing if they are not serving the client? I don’t see how this is a good point. The more you sell, the more you make.

 The more you sell at those price points, the closer you get to bankruptcy.

The reason someone takes a listing at that price point is because they simply have no idea how to run a profitable business.