Probate

[Kevin Raye]

O.k. I finally got down to the courthouse and looked at my very first batch of probate files. It was interesting and confusing at the same time. I know who passed away, their address, etc. But how do I chose the files that I want to market to. The addresses were all over the place. I was thinking I should chose addresses that were in my farm area. What do I do if the deceased has a spouse or children living at that same address. I just would like some clarity on how other investors chose their probate leads when going to the courthouse. What criteria do I follow besides know the deceased, their address, etc.

[Dale Osborn]

Sounds kind of creepy - like attorneys chasing ambulances but you are chasing after the hearse. Rather than checking at the courthouse, you need to get to know a probate attorney who processes the estates for the heirs. He/She will know who is interested in selling out to divide it amongst the living. Going through all of that fine print could make you go blind.

[Taylor Jennings]

Kevin Raye this post is about a year old now. Are you still in REI and how did your probate buying go?

[Atchut Neelam]

Originally posted by @Kevin Raye:

O.k. I finally got down to the courthouse and looked at my very first batch of probate files. It was interesting and confusing at the same time. I know who passed away, their address, etc. But how do I chose the files that I want to market to. The addresses were all over the place. I was thinking I should chose addresses that were in my farm area. What do I do if the deceased has a spouse or children living at that same address. I just would like some clarity on how other investors chose their probate leads when going to the courthouse. What criteria do I follow besides know the deceased, their address, etc.

 Hi Kevin

May I know if you still need assistance in finding probates with RE?

[Rick H.]

And there's your answer: another well-meaning person who "intended" to pull probates and market to them...but, presumable, never got around to taking any action. At least, they're not posting on BP about their successes or the challenges they've encountered.

Unlike the other well-meaning poster, don't even think of wasting your time contacting attorneys until you have at least a few dozen probate deal behind you as they will read your  inexperience and sniff the problems that you may cause them or their clients.

In case you missed it, the opportunity is that few choose to work this niche. As my friend Ward Hanigan says, 'What's bad is good and what's good is bad.' The very thing that discourages most from working trust and estate deals is good for those who do.

[Dave Metsker]

I agree with Rick Harmon about attorneys.  Many have golfing buddies that are real estate brokers.  Talk with the personal representative, as that is who makes the final decision.

[John Casper]

Originally posted by @Dave Metsker:

I agree with Rick Harmon about attorneys.  Many have golfing buddies that are real estate brokers.  Talk with the personal representative, as that is who makes the final decision.

 As you already mentioned Dave, most of these atts have already existing relationships w. brokers who they refer leads to. I am ready to contact these Attys but I am hoping for some guidance on my elevator pitch to them and why they should refer me properties as well. 

In your experience, is it a turnoff for Attys to hear "I want to wholesale these properties"  as opposed to I am a "cash buyer"? 

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @John Casper:

Originally posted by @Dave Metsker:

I agree with Rick Harmon about attorneys.  Many have golfing buddies that are real estate brokers.  Talk with the personal representative, as that is who makes the final decision.

 As you already mentioned Dave, most of these atts have already existing relationships w. brokers who they refer leads to. I am ready to contact these Attys but I am hoping for some guidance on my elevator pitch to them and why they should refer me properties as well. 

In your experience, is it a turnoff for Attys to hear "I want to wholesale these properties"  as opposed to I am a "cash buyer"? 

Uh, yeah.  By offering your services (quick cash buyer) you are supposedly offering to assist the attorney and their client with the asset.  By wholesaling you are adding another layer of complexity and chances of it not closing. Why would they choose you over an agent?  What do you do that an agent doesn't do better?

Most attorneys can see right through a wholesaler purchase agreement anyway and will assume the worst, even if you have a ready and able buyer. Know that you can close and prove that you can close, or know that you can do something no one else in the deal can. I've wholesaled a few properties being sold of probate but I solved some serious tenancy and lien issues that the heirs and attorneys and agents couldn't.

[Jared Knudson]

@Atchut Neelam 

I know this thread is old, but I've been looking into doing some marketing to probates with RE and I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction.

[Carlos Coppin Jr]

@Kevin Raye you still alive buddy?

[Gary Erdoglyan]

@Carlos Coppin Jr ironically after writing that question @Kevin Raye  had to experience probate first hand for his own estates, JK :) hope he is well!

[Carlos Coppin Jr]

@Gary Erdoglyan LOL its a shame how quickly so many noobs disappear after only 1 or 2 attempts. #SMH

[Rick H.]

I was not trying to be a prophet and see the future, however @Kevin Raye appears to have  gone on to bigger, presumably shinier objects capturing his attention. 

Alas, that's how this business goes. 

And that's how I can work in a market as large as California, with a population of 38 MM people, and have relatively few competitors.

Compound a decedents estate with other problems like title issues, drop dead dates and conflicts between people, and I have a nice, comforfortable micro-niche.

The beauty of it all is that I know people and their nature, which includes amateurs who try, unsuccessfully, to figure things out on their own believing that reading free forums alone is sufficient to work a complex deal. 

Hint: It isn't. 

[Kyle B.]

@Rick H. sorry to hi jack this thread, but I had a quick question for you. I've been sending letters to PRs of probate estates but typically not attorneys (unless I couldn't find PR address). My questions is do you think it's worth the extra time/money to send letters both to the PR and attorney for a single probate case. 

I wouldn't really think to send to an attorney. However, in the instances I have sent to attorneys, I have received some call backs. So some of my letters sent to them are taken seriously. Just looking at ways to maximize my time/money - thought you'd be a great person to get insight from on this.

Thanks,

Kyle

[Rick H.]

In a word: No.

Attorneys don't want their PR clients to sell assets off-market. In other words, they only want to deal with licensed professionals with tons of experience working this niche specifically. 

I've seen people show up at legal events once or twice, agents and appraisers, too. But like many people who post on these forums, you never see them again. Their flyers clog the shedder and paper recycling bins, for certain.

So, once you've get your license and have a couple hundred probate deals under your belts, you have something to talk to attorneys about. 

[Eric Armstrong]

Hey guys and gal,

I have a probate list that I'm gonna mail, but it's not in the budget to mail all of them.  What are your recommendations on time frame to mail them.  Do you wait a certain amount of time to send your first mailing?  How often do you mail? How much time goes by before you stop mailing?   Thanks for your thoughts.

Eric

[Rick H.]

Originally posted by @Eric Armstrong:

Hey guys and gal,

I have a probate list that I'm gonna mail, but it's not in the budget to mail all of them.  What are your recommendations on time frame to mail them.  Do you wait a certain amount of time to send your first mailing?  How often do you mail? How much time goes by before you stop mailing?   Thanks for your thoughts.

Eric

 Suggest you start a whole new thread and post your query so all may see. You'll get more and better responses. 

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

 What are some examples of some of the issues you have solved?

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Rick H.:

So, once you've get your license and have a couple hundred probate deals under your belts, you have something to talk to attorneys about. 

 Are you referring to a hypothetical license here or do you need some type of licensing for working with probate cases?

[Account Closed]

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

 What are some examples of some of the issues you have solved?

The type of stuff that agents and attorneys don't usually front their own money to get done. Negotiated deals between heirs that weren't speaking.  Vacated properties with significant cash for keys.  Arranged and paid for abatement issues cited by county/city.  Saved properties from tax sale at last minute.  That sort of thing.

[MICHAEL YBARRA]

Originally posted by @Kyle B.:

@Rick H. sorry to hi jack this thread, but I had a quick question for you. I've been sending letters to PRs of probate estates but typically not attorneys (unless I couldn't find PR address). My questions is do you think it's worth the extra time/money to send letters both to the PR and attorney for a single probate case. 

I wouldn't really think to send to an attorney. However, in the instances I have sent to attorneys, I have received some call backs. So some of my letters sent to them are taken seriously. Just looking at ways to maximize my time/money - thought you'd be a great person to get insight from on this.

Thanks,

Kyle

 Kyle - We market to probate attorneys - all the time...

we direct mail to maybe only 50 - we choose our postage cost wisely

but, we call and email every one!!!  Brotha, the cost to call and email is virtually "FREE"

for the most part - their not gonna be rude on the phone - tell them you wanna be their back up source

you never know when one of their "GOLF BUDDIES" drops the ball - be there to pick it up 

and close the deal....

Remember these attorneys put their pants on like us - one leg at a time

if your afraid of rejection - you will starve in this business

I just pulled a random list of 100 probate leads

if these guys are so professional

why do I see alot of emails ending in:

@gmail.com / @ yahoo.com / @ msn.com / @ sbcglobal.net    etc.  etc 

when we email the first time - we expect a "NO" 

when we email again we get  "MAYBE"

when we email again we get "SHOOT ME OVER A POF"

Referring back to that 100 probate leads - I only see 1 attorney with at least 2 probate cases - the other attorney's 1 case each.

Talk to these guys with confidence, 

learn to become a marketing shark - and your phone will always ring

we do alot of probate deals - by no means are we "PRO's"

but, we are marketing sharks!!

[Michael Quarles]

Removed 

[Rick H.]

As my attorney list is nearly 8,000 and have been working this referral method for 25+ years, I have some experience marketing in the legal niche.

One is that I go out of my way to communicate with all persons in a professional manner. That includes how I address them in all written and verbal media or directly, in person.

I don't ever recall addressing any attorney (or other human being) as "Brotha" as I did not grow up in the hood and don't wish to be thought of as someone who is dependent on street language jargon and affectations to do business. 

If you want to attract money, my experience has been to use the language of business. If you want to be successful working in the legal community, use the language of the law and the courts.

I leave the "yo's" and such to hip hop rappers and online marketers. Not trying to tell anybody how to talk; just my opinion. 

[Jeremy Prunty]

@Rick H. , I am setting up my staff for a consistent once a month drip mail for one year for every new probate lead.  My question is, do you think it is important for the actual letters to be personalized to the PR & descendant address (mail merged with a CSV), or would it be ok to use non personalized generic letters (but 4 different ones), with the envelopes obviously addressed to the PR? 

[Rick H.]

@Jeremy Prunty You may just want to start a new thread as this is also a marketing question. Will probably get more and better responses to your question.

You can, at least, mail merge your letters. I suggest each letter ought to have a different theme.

Depending on the volume, you may want to hand write. Either have staff perform or outsource. You'll find seemingly thousands of posts re: yellow letters. I don't use them myself, however you may be successful with them.

[David Battle]

@Rick H.

 What info do you need to market for probate leads?

Below is the info that I thought might be valuable but I'd like an opinion from someone who's doing it currently.

1. Case Type (e.g. Probate with Letters, Letter of Administration, Trust, etc)

2. Decedent Name (Full)

3. Decedent Address (Full)

4. Decedent Date of Death

5. Main Party (Executor/Executrix/Administrator/Claimant/Petitioner/Heir/etc.) Name

6. Main Party (Executor/Executrix/Administrator/Claimant/Petitioner/Heir/etc.) Address

7. Other Party (e.g. Attorney) Name

8. Other Party (e.g. Attorney) Address

9. Other Party (e.g. Attorney) Telephone Number

I'm currently speaking with someone from my area to obtain a probate list. I just need to make sure I'm getting what I need if I'm going to be paying for it.

Thank You