Where are the real investors? Any one know?... Bueller... Bueller

[Steve S.]

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Steve S. You know who should be included in the conversation is @Mindy Jensen. She is often open to pitching good ideas to the powers that be at BiggerPockets. 

Mindy, what you you think about having BiggerPockets have private group chats. Members could create private groups or message boards where they could share things privately?  What do you think?

[Mike Dymski]

Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

@Steve S. I felt the same way about 6 months ago. I felt like a lot of the posts were repetitive entry level questions. Then I thought of the Jim Rhon saying about being the average of the 5 people you associate with the most and I started a post on BP called Millionaire Mindset Vs Non-Millionaire Mindset. My premise was basically the same as yours. I wanted to mingle with more experienced, higher net worth individuals. 

Some people thought that I was just being arrogant or proud. Others chimed in and were really helpful such as @Mike Dymski who humbly stated that what I was looking for was called a mastermind group. Then I started researching mastermind groups and I started reaching out to other more experienced investors through private messages to start building a mastermind group. I connected with @Derek Dombeck who started spearheading building a mastermind group. He found that out of the 20 or so that qualified (through experience, success, etc.) that when it came time to get together, many of them had a lot of time commitments and it has been difficult to get them together.

But I think the concept is this, and it is something I noticed in myself over time as I read and posted on BiggerPockets. As my knowledge and understanding about real estate investing grew, I became hungrier for more meat or more advanced information. I didn’t want to keep taking basic math 101 over and over again by reading through the forums. I wanted to start taking algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and eventually advanced calculus but in real estate rather than math. So it may not be as much that the quality of the content has declined as much as it appears but rather that your insight, understanding, and experience has grown to the point that you are ready for more than what the BP forums usually offer.

The next step for me is to start participating in mastermind groups. I am going to participate in 2 of them. One locally in Arizona, and the other one nationally with members in several states. I’m not interested in participating in amateurmind groups with people just starting out, but I am interested in participating in or creating these two mastermind groups. This is my plan to continue to progress in my personal journey of growth.

Hey Shiloh.  One of the guys I mastermind with owns a successful flooring business, has a large portfolio of passive real estate investments, strong faith, eats well, and exercises regularly (plus he's funny).  Get this, he ran at least one mile per day for 24+ years (through sickness, injury, travel, tragedies, weather, diarrhea, you name it).  That's the kind of guy I want to be around (except after the runs runs...).

[Mark Fries]

@Steve Snyder I couldn't agree more with you... I think it's prime time right now to open up another similar website for actual real investors. Bigger projects to me has went from something that was absolutely great to something that I might just check once every 2 weeks...

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

@Shiloh Lundahl That is a pretty good point. Yeah, I am sure there are mastermind groups around and I suppose I will have to devote some more time and energy to pursuing them and working with them. Thank you for the insight. I appreciate it.

It would be nice if there was a way to setup private groups on here, kinda like on Linked In. Maybe we can get that created? Who knows.

 I have been to the FIBI events in LA as a speaker there are some sharp people there  Jeremy Roll for instance

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Mike Dymski Ha ha I get it. The runs runs. That’s nasty!

How long do I need to run every day for so that I can get in your mastermind group?

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Jay Hinrichs What city was the FIBI event located in LA that you went to?

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

@Mike Dymski Ha ha I get it. The runs runs. That’s nasty!

How long do I need to run every day for so that I can get in your mastermind group?

Shiloh I went to a invitation only mastermind in June.. it had some of the top players in the country there and it was 20k a year to be a member.. not sure how many on BP would sign up for that.. For sure there are plenty that could afford it.

they did a great job they really did.. I joined but then when I got the list of the entire group.. there were those that were members I personally did not care for.. so they gave me a refund .. Which was very cool most Guru's as you know wont refund.

But the guy running this is very nice  very smart.. and he has about 250 members so do the math that's a 5 mil a year business .. so have a lot of respect for what he put together..  

So I guess when you think mastermind you have to maybe narrow it down to your focus..  Do these masterminds your joining cost money?   I am good with paid training and networking in my day to day I know I would have gotten my 20k back easily in networking and funding deals for some of the members.. And maybe I need to get thicker skin.. :)  Plus I get travel fatigue and the idea of having to travel 4 more times a year kind of dissuaded me as well... but mainly it was the roster.. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Shiloh Lundahl:

@Jay Hinrichs What city was the FIBI event located in LA that you went to?

Manhattan Beach...  I have seen Jeremy post on this site once or twice but he is wicked smart.. If I lived were you live I would make it a point to search him out.. and Bruce NOrris.. any event he speaks at.. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

@Steve S.  I think the PM function works well.. sometimes folks don't respond..

but most do.

Also its a tough gig on this site as you really cant advertise what you do .. so you get all sorts of subliminal messaging going on.. and I understand why the rules are that way.

But maybe a private facebook group put together by some of the folks on this site that want to collaborate off this site.??

although I got on one of those and 90% of what was on there was all these successful guys vacations all over the world  Now I dig that but.. I have been there done that so not really interested in their vacations if they could stick to business maybe.. ???

[Diane G.]

It is a reflection of RE market cycle......

Whenever market is at its peak, whether RE or stock, it is flooded with newbies and the experienced already left the market.... If I look around myself, seasoned investors are all waiting for crash now....

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Diane G.:

It is a reflection of RE market cycle......

Whenever market is at its peak, whether RE or stock, it is flooded with newbies and the experienced already left the market.... If I look around myself, seasoned investors are all waiting for crash now....

 also Diane the public is inundated with social media and TV  and infomercials of how you can get rich in real estate with no money no credit no experience.. this is the target of the how to wholesale guru's.. 

Marry that with this free site and there you go.. its stands to reason that there are a ton of beginners on this site.. I think one of the benefits for them though is to get some advice that while not what they really want to hear maybe points them in the right direction.. And for sure since the slant is  anti paid training probably has saved many from going into credit card debt.   And there was a HUGE public service I think on the Morris threads keeping people from getting totally hosed by that company.

[Shiloh Lundahl]

@Jay Hinrichs Thanks for both comments. I will look into both of those people you mentioned. As for me, I also am not opposed to spending money on high level training and networking, as long as it truely is high level and elevating. Many may claim to be, when in actuality they aren’t really.

Right now though, with the growth we have had over the past 2 years, rather than continuing to focus on growing at the same rate, I am trying to stabilize both my life and my businesses. I see it this way, it would be a shame to be the front car in the Indy 500 just to blow a tire on the way to the finish line and end up not finishing the race. So right now I am switching my focus from winning the race (continuing to grow at the same rate) to taking good care of my car (stabilizing and personal and professional development) to make sure I finish my race. After all, my investing career is just starting. It would be a shame if I pushed myself beyond what was prudent because of pride.

[Peter Tverdov]

Originally posted by @Diane G.:

It is a reflection of RE market cycle......

Whenever market is at its peak, whether RE or stock, it is flooded with newbies and the experienced already left the market.... If I look around myself, seasoned investors are all waiting for crash now....

 Lol you have been waiting for 2 years already

[Bob Prisco]

@Steve S. they are here, just need to offer the right product/ service  and they will find you . In my 3 months or so utilizing BP, I have flipped about 1 mill  in properties, ( on top of my other clients not from BP, )  I am finding BP to be the best networking for real " players" .

I have a saying, find/ offer a good deal and the money will find you . 

Most other sites  you can lucky but overall just tire kickers. 

Hats off to the founders / marketers on BP.  
 

[Steve S.]

@Bob Prisco I have met a lot of great investors who have invested in my projects from this site. Don't get me wrong I find the value in it and it this is a great site for it, but I have just noticed it has gotten watered down lately is all. It would be nice to have a more experienced portion of this site that is more geared for people like you and me is all. 

I honestly don't have complaints, more like suggestions and observations. 

[Jameson Sullivan]

I think the Podcast needs a v2 as well with more advanced topics. It gets old hearing "Now for people out there who don't know what "X thing" is, why don't you explain it for us"

That being said, I have learned a whole lot here BECAUSE of the fact that newbies mix with the old dogs, so I have to say I do like that aspect. 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Bob Prisco:

@Steve S. they are here, just need to offer the right product/ service  and they will find you . In my 3 months or so utilizing BP, I have flipped about 1 mill  in properties, ( on top of my other clients not from BP, )  I am finding BP to be the best networking for real " players" .

I have a saying, find/ offer a good deal and the money will find you . 

Most other sites  you can lucky but overall just tire kickers. 

Hats off to the founders / marketers on BP.  
 

 this site is heavy to buy and hold cash flow in king appreciation is gambling so any market that provides a modicum of cash flow with 20% down is a ripe target for the vast majority of the BP audience .   there have not been many lately but some of the most spirited threads are the SF bay area investors who have made a KILLING in appreciation debating with those that think 200 .oo a month and no appreciation to speak of is the way to go.. :)   Obviously there are far more people with 50k in their jeans to buy low end rentals than 250k to buy a rental in the SF peninsula.. but there is no arguing if you bought a rental in SF peninsula 5 years ago you made WAAAAY more money than any cash flow investment.. but now that seems to have peaked.. and I see another huge run to cash flow My only suggestion to those buying in those markets is to get them paid for as soon as possible and if you can pay cash.. that's where you make money in low value assets.. IE any asset under 100k..  is what I consider a low value asset.

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Bob Prisco:

@Steve S. they are here, just need to offer the right product/ service  and they will find you . In my 3 months or so utilizing BP, I have flipped about 1 mill  in properties, ( on top of my other clients not from BP, )  I am finding BP to be the best networking for real " players" .

I have a saying, find/ offer a good deal and the money will find you . 

Most other sites  you can lucky but overall just tire kickers. 

Hats off to the founders / marketers on BP.  
 

 this site is heavy to buy and hold cash flow in king appreciation is gambling so any market that provides a modicum of cash flow with 20% down is a ripe target for the vast majority of the BP audience .   there have not been many lately but some of the most spirited threads are the SF bay area investors who have made a KILLING in appreciation debating with those that think 200 .oo a month and no appreciation to speak of is the way to go.. :)   Obviously there are far more people with 50k in their jeans to buy low end rentals than 250k to buy a rental in the SF peninsula.. but there is no arguing if you bought a rental in SF peninsula 5 years ago you made WAAAAY more money than any cash flow investment.. but now that seems to have peaked.. and I see another huge run to cash flow My only suggestion to those buying in those markets is to get them paid for as soon as possible and if you can pay cash.. that's where you make money in low value assets.. IE any asset under 100k..  is what I consider a low value asset.

and don't listen to Clayton MOrris  I should add... low end D class out of state is a great way to lose all your money 

[Jack B.]

Originally posted by @Steve S.:

BiggerPockets for a long time was a great place where investors could meet and exchange information and work together. Over the past year I have noticed a trend of a lot more newbies coming in just looking for information and a lot less real players who truly invest and work together. 

SO... I have two questions....

1) Has anyone else noticed this trend?

2) Where are the real real estate investors conversing if not on this forum?

Trying to figure out where everyone went.

-Steve

Iv'e noticed this as well. Lot's of newbs who have no idea what they are doing yet and maybe just bought one house in podunk Iowa and are here giving accredited investors advice about how to screen apartment complex purchases, citing that you should inspect units, review leases, etc. before even going under contract. If you are an experienced or accredited investor, you know this doesn't happen until you're under contract....Frankly the quality of the forum has gone downhill. Mods chastise people who correct people who post completely ignorant information instead of policing the quality of the information posted here. I recently  had a realtor on here try to tell me to judge the housing market by asking cab drivers if they are investing in real estate. 

[Bob Prisco]

@Jay Hinrichs yes SF area is CRAZY. One of my clients paid 300k for his property I believe he said 20 years ago, now value over 2 mill. I have been getting calls and clients from that area over the past 2 months, they like the returns we can show them in the  Cleveland markets..  Well said Jay, as usual :)  all the best, 

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Bob Prisco:

@Jay Hinrichs yes SF area is CRAZY. One of my clients paid 300k for his property I believe he said 20 years ago, now value over 2 mill. I have been getting many calls and clients from that area over the past 2 months, they like the returns we can show them in the  Cleveland markets..  Well said Jay, as usual :)  all the best, 

 My 3rd house I bought in Palo Alto for 183k in 1983 just sold for a touch over 3 million LOL.. 1200 sq ft 3 and 2 nothing special rancher..

but you could have bought that house 5 years ago for 1.5    its is going to go down in the annals of real estate history as one of the greatest appreciation plays in the country no doubt.. 

I have funded about 50 or 60 deals since I first went to Cleveland last summer.. nice area.. solid little rentals.. got to really watch out for those tax's though and POS and a few other gotchas.. but other than that very similar to the other 12 markets I fund deals in for guys like you.. !!!

[Scott Trench]

BiggerPockets has a problem - we are helping investors succeed to a point where their businesses become... boring. Automatic. Stable. When you absorb thousands of perspectives through different written, audio, and video formats, you are going to approach a level of mastery that makes finding additional nuggets harder and harder. That's a good problem. It means we are succeeding in helping you get so comfortable with such a broad variety of real estate and business related issues that you are running out of new concepts to learn from.

But it's still a problem. How do you find investors who are experienced? Well, we figured we'd start by letting folks post deals to their profiles. Check out users on this thread. You can see who has been part of an investment or not by their stats. Expect to be able to filter search results when looking through members in the future. Expect to see "deal diaries" in the future. And this, I think, is the way we can move towards actually allowing users to self-identify as newbies or experienced. This will lay the framework for you, the community, to figure out how to come together and network with people who can help you.

However, you, the experienced investors, will always be encouraged to continue helping the new guys out. I think that some of you may have actually gotten your start, or at least found help on BP in accelerating your progress. There's power in helping others - an old question is still new to them (although we also plan to implement a system that will help point people who are about to ask a question that has already been asked towards a post that covers that topic). 

Perhaps the simple solution to this problem is the creation of "groups" just like on Facebook. Create a group, whenver, however, and invite whoever you want to it. Only members of that group can post to threads created by that group, but anyone can still read the posts. Thoughts on this?

[Jessica G.]

I’m confused as to what questions and conversations need to be had in a private or VIP group that can’t be had in front of *gasp* newbies ? (As opposed to a pm or phone call) Perhaps when I’m a real investor I’ll find out!

[Jay Hinrichs]

Originally posted by @Scott Trench:

BiggerPockets has a problem - we are helping investors succeed to a point where their businesses become... boring. Automatic. Stable. When you absorb thousands of perspectives through different written, audio, and video formats, you are going to approach a level of mastery that makes finding additional nuggets harder and harder. That's a good problem. It means we are succeeding in helping you get so comfortable with such a broad variety of real estate and business related issues that you are running out of new concepts to learn from.

But it's still a problem. How do you find investors who are experienced? Well, we figured we'd start by letting folks post deals to their profiles. Check out users on this thread. You can see who has been part of an investment or not by their stats. Expect to be able to filter search results when looking through members in the future. Expect to see "deal diaries" in the future. And this, I think, is the way we can move towards actually allowing users to self-identify as newbies or experienced. This will lay the framework for you, the community, to figure out how to come together and network with people who can help you.

However, you, the experienced investors, will always be encouraged to continue helping the new guys out. I think that some of you may have actually gotten your start, or at least found help on BP in accelerating your progress. There's power in helping others - an old question is still new to them (although we also plan to implement a system that will help point people who are about to ask a question that has already been asked towards a post that covers that topic). 

Perhaps the simple solution to this problem is the creation of "groups" just like on Facebook. Create a group, whenver, however, and invite whoever you want to it. Only members of that group can post to threads created by that group, but anyone can still read the posts. Thoughts on this?

So Scott  Hi by the way !!,   I posted about an invitation only Mastermind I went to.

I know I would pay to be a member of an online one.. and maybe that is an offshoot.. just like you have folks pay to be pro's .. there could be another paid section say 500.00 bucks for 1000.00 a year for a mastermind.. and then have a sub category like your talking about.

you guys know who is who and you could put out the invitations and filter.. etc.. one thing I did not like about the one I spent 20k on was not knowing who all the members were only to have that revealed after I sent them my 20k.. then I am like shoot don't want to spend 5k for a week of travel for my wife and I and go to this 3 to 5 day event and be in the same room with some of these folks that I don't care to listen to or associate with.. and I get it.. the guy running it cant filter everyone but if I would have had the roster up front I would have saved myself and them the time.. 

So if you have a policy that you can join but if you don't like it in say 5 days or 10 days you get a refund.. that would be cool. and as state this guy refunded my money in full... so I was cool with that..   

so just some thoughts on my end..

[Bob Prisco]

@Jay Hinrichs POS is a pain for US  (but we have done 100s and 100s, so ... )  not the clients, we do everything. Start to finish is always about 4- 6  weeks, so not to bad .  Also the POS are going away, three cities now only have exterior, the remaining two will follow soon they will all be gone. Also OOS clients like the fact that there are two non biased inspections ( City and then the state, as we do 80% govt tenants,)  looking over their property and they can see what must be done, so gives them that warm and fuzzy feeling  .

  Wow, 180 to 3 mill, just nuts!! My mom was happy when she paid 45k in 65, and sold 20 years ago for 250k, LOL,,,, since tho it did sell for 750,,,,  Your situation was a game/ life changer. Now you get to play on BP all day LOL,  All the best to you .