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All Forum Posts by: Douglas B.

Douglas B. has started 19 posts and replied 82 times.

yes, I'm assuming willful destruction or drastic negligence here. I'm not talking about normal wear and tear. I mean if the tenant trashes the place. I'm also assuming that we would have a detailed move in condition report with photos and video. We could take photos of the damage and submit a claim against the tenants liability insurance. We plan on renting to low income individuals who would not have the ability to pay for damages out of pocket. So our goal is to provide that insurance coverage as an additional layer of protection against he possibility of an expensive rehab after a destructive tenant.

We KNOW that tenant screening is important. I'm only discussing the "what if" the tenant destroys the place.

Post: SUB30kCLUB: tips to protect yourself legally

Douglas B.Posted
  • Buffalo, NY
  • Posts 82
  • Votes 75

I also wonder what level of legal protection the landlord has if he or she uses a property manager. Does the PM have any sort of liability insurance or responsibility if the tenant they place damages the property?

Post: SUB30kCLUB: tips to protect yourself legally

Douglas B.Posted
  • Buffalo, NY
  • Posts 82
  • Votes 75

Today's topic is a springboard off of @Lisa Phillips excellent blog series, episode 2 on incorporating.

We will be doing business in NY and, with the advice of our attorney and accountant, have started an LLC which will act as a legal buffer from law suits. If anyone wants to sue us related to our rental property, they will have to sue the LLC not us personally. Theoretically, that will protect our personal assets.

Another idea people have shared, is to NOT use an LLC but simply to have enough liability insurance on yourself that if you get sued, you'd have the coverage to protect yourself from losing everything. Usually this would be in the form of liability umbrella coverage on your homeowners policy. Personally, I think that's too risky but I know others who do it, have been used and have lived to tell the tale.

I'm also learning more about the option to require tenants to have proof of renters insurance prior to signing the lease. I have been told that this can provide peace of mind for the tenant and has benefit for the landlord too. The tenant is protect in case of theft, fire, etc. Also, there is a liability insurance portion in the policy which will protect the tenant from liability if someone is hurt because of his negligence, for example, while visiting the apartment. That's good news for the tenant AND the landlord. Because now, the injured party has another later of insurance to go after before trying to come after the landlord directly. Also, if the tenant maliciously damages your property in excess of normal wear and tear, the landlord can sue the tenant for damages and the rental insurance would likely pay or settle. I don't have personal experience here but I'd like to know if anyone else does.

I've also learned that business credit cards do not offer the same consumer protection that traditional personal lines of credit do. If someone steals your business credit card and runs up a balance, YOU are on the hook! Yup, it's true. Check it out. We will be establishing a new personal credit card which will only be used for business. As a normal consumer card, we will still get the personal consumer protection.

I'd also recommend making sure that you are meeting the legal requirements for your business entity in your state. For example, if you need to have an operating agreement or partnership agreement, regular meeting with recorded minutes, etc., having all your paperwork in good order will help to prove in court that you are running your business AS a business, not just a sham legal covering. It's a matter of legitimacy.

Another issue is one of PIERCING THE CORPORATE VEIL, which Lisa Phillips discusses in her blog. She explains that in some states, single party LLCs are vulnerable when compared to multiparty entities. She recommends learning about the laws in your state and adding members to your LLC if needed to protect yourself. You can do this and still retain control of the LLC. It's more of a paperwork issue than it is about having contributing partners. It might be good to look into if you're flying solo. Renee and I are partners so that seem like it'll protect us.

Any other ideas you have, please share them with the group! How do YOU structure your business so that you are maximally protected against frivolous suits?

although, Michelle, I hear your point. I do. I'm just wondering if the insurance thing would be a layer of protection for us.

so, let's say WE provide the tenant with a renters insurance policy (build it into the cost of the rent) . If the tenant damages the unit, could we as the injured party file a claim against the tenants rental insurance under the liability portion of the insurance? I mean, they damaged the property, isn't that what the liability portion covers? Certainly, if they were negligent and caused a fire, they would be at fault and the liability part would cover damages. So I'm assuming that if they, let's say, destroyed an apartment, they'd be considered liable too, right?

I strongly recommend @Lisa Phillips YouTube video blog series about sub30k rentals. Search for AFFORDABLE REI 0000 (that's the first episode where she explains WHY she invests in sub30k).

It's a fantastic series. She also did an excellent podcast interview with the BP PODCAST recently, I think it might be episode 54. It's worth your time.

I'm also going to begin a blog explaining our journey from planning to making our first purchase. Feel free to check it out. It'll be a work in progress, hopefully growing daily.

excellent advice for sure. Still, I'd like to keep this post focused on actual materials and items that are tough but attractive.

I'll be reading that link above next. That looks perfect.

Post: Anyone out there specializing in under 30k properties?

Douglas B.Posted
  • Buffalo, NY
  • Posts 82
  • Votes 75

anyone interested in following along with this specialty focus of investing can follow along by adding a keyword notification for SUB30kCLUB. I'll put that in the title of every post I make. I'm also starting a blog here on BP to share our experience from planning to soon making our first purchase.

Follow along and let's help each other!

Post: Anyone out there specializing in under 30k properties?

Douglas B.Posted
  • Buffalo, NY
  • Posts 82
  • Votes 75
Originally posted by @Tony H.:
Wow, what areas are you all talking about? 10- 15 - 30 - 50K? Is this Detroit? abandoned falling down houses? Send me some info on the areas, schools, neighborhoods - and if this is real, sign me up for 20 houses all cash - 2 week close (after inspection). I hate to sound pessimistic - but holy moly.

Rooms out here don't rent for less than 900. House rent is 18 - 3,000. Prices are 190K (cheap/bad neighborhoods) to 7 figures. Average about 600K.

And using your numbers, 650 rent, with GREAT financing rates that would be (use the 1% rule) as a PITI, minus a bit for a great interest rate. The numbers are - well - strange.

Send me legit info, I'll buy several all cash and pay a finders fee. no games.

Nope, it's the real deal Tony. There are deals to be had.

For Renee and I, it's all about the numbers. We truly believe that the goal of investing is to get the most return on our investment dollar. A 100k duplex that rents for $700/unit is simply not as profitable as a 30k duplex that brings in $500/unit. It's just simple math.

Ive heard arguments that low income tenants are a risk for crime, delinquency, destruction, etc, but I've also heard experienced landlords say that carefully screened section 8 tenants can be their most profitable tenants!

So why are YOU either already investing in sub30k properties or why are you considering doing so?

I'm planning on releasing a new sub30kclub question each day for us to discuss. PM me with topic ideas and let's learn and grow together!