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All Forum Posts by: Joe Bertolino

Joe Bertolino has started 7 posts and replied 1232 times.

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @John Carbone:

@Joe BertolinoI predict you will see a bunch of 2-1 buydown products securing 4% rates for 2 years and then in 2024/2025 people will refinance

What happens in 2026 if/when  home values are lower? Are these homebuyers with this product just going to be bag holders? Why not have 6-6 buy downs and let people get 1 percent mortgages, that will fix the issue. Will there be a government bailout forcing lenders to refi people at new lower rates with negative equity or will we have 2008 all over again? 

If rates creep back down will there be negative equity?  Will there be a huge influx of new construction to exceed demand?  Maybe I am out of touch here in Northern CA but I just don't see any homeowners that are really stretched to the point where this is a concern.  Those that are stretched are selling and pocketing equity.   Corelogic has an average equity per borrower of $300K and the national average LTV is 42%.  37% of homes are owned free and clear (Bloomberg).  I really am trying to see where a major crash would come from and these stats don't lead me there.  

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@John Carbone

but folks that bought houses at fixed rates for the purposes of living in them are OK - right?  doesn't this just put pressure on buyers going forward?

 Yes, if you bought at a fixed rate to live in then your fine in terms of your monthly payment. That doesn't mean you actually have real equity in your asset. Equity is derived based on what the market prices your property at. Everybody is "stuck" in their properties right now. It is a standoff between sellers and buyers right now. Some buyers may get desperate and overpay, before this is realized. On the flip side, people have life circumstances that require them to move. However, if you sell out of a fixed rate mortgage, where are you going to go for a similar payment that you have? If rates stay this high for a prolonged period of time, then the home values will drop. The real estate market is broken. It is usually a 3-6 month lag before rates are fully priced in to real estate values. 


Very true observation. There's no need to rush anything as the Fed implicitly said they may reduce the rate to 2.5%  in 2024/2025. This is more like a waiting game until they reduce the Fed fund rate. 

God wants more unemployment and much-lowered housing price.


 Unemployment is 3.7% and roughly 10% of the population is useless.  12% of the people that take the ASVAB fail and are deemed completely useless by the US military.   They are not qualified to peel potatoes or reconstitute food.  The upside I guess is that very few of these folks are homeowners.   Unemployment jumping to normal levels will not come from the top 50%.  My 14-year-old daughter started putting in applications for her first job and had 9 interviews scheduled within 3 days. Her phone blew up.  Pay is starting at $15/hr.  

I predict you will see a bunch of 2-1 buydown products securing 4% rates for 2 years and then in 2024/2025 people will refi.  You will also see a lot more seller financing and subject 2 deals with actual cash coming into the deal.  Not everyone makes decisions like those of us on BP.  Some people want a certain house in a certain area and they don't really care about the details.   They have the income to where a $1500 bump in payment doesn't move the needle for them.  Rates may go up or may go down but they want to be living where they want to be living while it happens.  

We are talking about homes, where people live. Not strictly investments. It is not like you can rent for much less than the mortgage payment in most desirable markets. A huge chunk of the SFR rental market was sold off over the past few years. Many Landlords have cashed out and sold to homeowners. That rental housing stock is not coming back on the market. It's not like 15 years ago when the market was flooded with housing. Boomers are not going to flood the market as they downsize because they have 2% rates. They are just going to stay in their larger homes. We didn't build very much housing from 2009-2019. And homebuilders barely got things cranked up and then covid hit and supply chain issues put the brakes on it. Inventory is 3.7 months in my market. I went to the caravan last week and there were 3 houses coming on. Anything decent still gets snapped up in a few days.

Post: FED finally admits we're in for a correction. Thoughts?

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Eliott Elias:

We're seeing the early glimpses in Austin. I have a listing in a super desirable neighborhood, been listed for 2 weeks and not a single call. 


 where is it priced compared to the last closed comp.  Or the comps from 12 months ago?  

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Greg R.:
Right, we just recently started to see the shift in the past few months, it's going to take a while for the market to show the impacts of the current interest rate and environmental conditions. 
Yes, some people made their deals comfortably and hopefully they'll be fine. But many didn't, and completely stretched and mortgaged their financial future (no pun intended) & emptied their savings to cover shortfalls from appraisal contingency waivers.
From my perspective a lot of the construction is slowing down because sales have dramatically slowed. There are huge developments in Dallas, hundreds if not thousands of homes recently completed and others nearing completion without buyers - lots and lots of signs in yards. I can guarantee you that they're not intentionally slowing down the pace of sales. 

 Which subdivisions and builders in Dallas have hundreds if not thousands of homes sitting right now?

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Greg R.:
Quote from @Joe Bertolino:

When gas went from $3 a gallon to $6 a gallon and then back down to $4 per gallon did we say that the oil and gas market has collapsed and the sky is falling?    If you wanted to cherry-pick statistics you would make that argument and come up with some amazing clickbait.  Same with lumber.  Should we use historical data or should we focus on the short-term trends after a freak event that drove pricing through the roof temporarily.  Softwood lumber decreased 23% in June... does that mean the Lumber market has collapsed and the entire industry is in chaos?   

If you want to find data suggesting the real estate market is healthy and we are seeing the normal fall/winter slow down combined with the rate increase then you can find that.   If you want to dig for negative stats and sensationalize them (The Biggest drop since 2011!!!!) then you can find those.   

The market is already adjusting to rate issues.   There are seller financing classes everywhere popping up and mortgage companies are offering 2-1 buy downs so you are paying 4% for the next two years (with hopes rates trickle back down).  I think as the lending market adjusts you will see prices stabilize.  There is still not enough housing.  Rents are quite high.  The recipe for what I consider a crash isn't there.   

When gas went from $3 to $6 (or close to $7 in San Diego), no one was trying to pretend that the inflated gas price was the norm. We all knew it was artificial and temporary. Same can be said for lumber. 

That seems to be the difference with the recent housing bubble. Prices surged due to a variety of reasons including historically low rates and a ton of cheap money floating around, and many "experts" started arguing that market conditions at the peak of the bubble was the new norm and that prices would only go up. 

There were lenders here on BP saying that if you didn't buy for 50-100k over list and over value that you would never have an opportunity to buy again. There were many realtors pressuring buyers to waive all contingencies, including appraisal and inspection contingencies to get their offer accepted. 

When the market adjusts it's a bit like an aircraft carrier making a u-turn. It takes a little time. The impacts of the rates and inflation that we're seeing right now won't be fully realized in the housing market for months. And this is obviously localized, some markets are going to feel it far worse than others. 

Don't forget about the national economical indicators either. The stock market is witnessing a major crash as we approach bear markets. Inflation is raging out of control as the fed just raised the rate 75 basis points and is planning to raise it 1-2 more times before the end of the year. Next domino to fall will be the labor market. We're unfortunately going to see a lot more layoffs and high unemployment. I'm expecting foreclosures to skyrocket in the next year - especially when the group who purchased at the top of the market falls on hard times and see that their equity has evaporated. 

Again, I hope I'm wrong but I don't see how we come out of this any other way. How many trillion of dollars were printed in the last 2 years? How many people quit their jobs and transitioned to relying on government handouts in the name of covid? How many home owners that took advantage of covid forbearance are going to be unable to make double payments or 1.5x payments to repay the 18 months of skipped payments? How about the landlords that didn't get paid for the last 18 months from tenants that stopped paying rent and couldn't be evicted? 

You can look at things through a rose colored lens if you like, but I prefer recognizing thing as they are. I wish it weren't this way, but I'd rather see it for what it is and prepare for what the market is evolving into so I can plan my next moves accordingly. 

 Time will tell but I am not seeing significant year over year decreases.  I think most of those that bought at the peak will be fine as they likely sold their prior home at the peak and locked in very low rates.  Very few were stretched to make the deal happen.  Weak buyers were not winning those bidding wars.  Those that take action typically do better than those who think they can time the market.  I know buyers have been waiting “for the crash” since 2014.   We still don’t have enough inventory.  There was very little new construction from 2009-2019 and now builders are slowing down for supply chain issues to avoid any sitting inventory.  They are not slowing due to a lack of buyers.  They are still buying down rate and selling houses,  just an an intentionally slower pace.  

Post: Housing crash deniers ???

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233

When gas went from $3 a gallon to $6 a gallon and then back down to $4 per gallon did we say that the oil and gas market has collapsed and the sky is falling?    If you wanted to cherry-pick statistics you would make that argument and come up with some amazing clickbait.  Same with lumber.  Should we use historical data or should we focus on the short-term trends after a freak event that drove pricing through the roof temporarily.  Softwood lumber decreased 23% in June... does that mean the Lumber market has collapsed and the entire industry is in chaos?   

If you want to find data suggesting the real estate market is healthy and we are seeing the normal fall/winter slow down combined with the rate increase then you can find that.   If you want to dig for negative stats and sensationalize them (The Biggest drop since 2011!!!!) then you can find those.   

The market is already adjusting to rate issues.   There are seller financing classes everywhere popping up and mortgage companies are offering 2-1 buy downs so you are paying 4% for the next two years (with hopes rates trickle back down).  I think as the lending market adjusts you will see prices stabilize.  There is still not enough housing.  Rents are quite high.  The recipe for what I consider a crash isn't there.   

Post: California Vs Out of State (really, but why?)

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:

I also want to add that not every city in CA is having "sustainable appreciation". This is one thing to consider when you try to invest.

Case in this example is Sacramento,CA ; currently it has only 800 engineers job wanted with 1,000 house for sale. So ratio is 1:1 , compare to 10:1 in Bay Area. The mortgage to median income ratio in Sacramento is actually also higher there than Bay Area although from nominal price it seems Sacramento is cheaper than the Bay. 

After interest rate hikes, Sacramento felt more dramatic price depreciation because the local economy can't support such price appreciation.

If you ask me where to invest for sustainable appreciation between Kansas City and Sacramento, I will select KC.


 Sacramento is in the middle of building or expanding a handful of hospitals and medical school campus’ employing something like 4500 new doctors.  

Post: Looking for prop. insurance for a fix-and-flip in Riverside, CA

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @Kenta Honjo:

Hi there! I'm looking for a property insurance agent for a fix-and-flip in Riverside, CA. If you have any recommendations, please let me know! Thank you.

I am happy to help.  

Post: Sell or rent guide for primary residence

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233

I think the most important question is what you would do with the roughly $250k you would net. If you sell soon you avoid cap gains.  Typically higher end rentals like that don’t cash flow well. I don’t foresee the older parts of Folsom appreciating as quickly as they have with all of the new construction taking place south of Hwy 50.  

Post: Flipper Insurance Provider Recommendation for the Sacramento Area

Joe BertolinoPosted
  • Investor
  • El Dorado Hills, CA
  • Posts 1,286
  • Votes 1,233
Quote from @TJ Nowitzki:

Could someone  please recommend a good insurance agent for the Sacramento area? I am looking to get umbrella and builder’s risk insurance policies for the S-corp that I flip through.

I can help if you are still looking