All Forum Posts by: Travis West

Hi Matt.

Welcome from a fellow Texan (down in Houston).

As you already know, BP is a great place to ask, share, and learn. I look forward to doing all of that with you in the future!

Travis

Hi Adam.

There is virtually no difference between mold and mildew. They are both biological in nature, occur when water is present, and can cause health problems if/when susceptible people are exposed.

To answer you question, I would say the following:

If the treatment-cleaning with Clorox was done in a safe manner and the mold colonies were captured effectively, then perhaps it was done well. This also assumes that the mold growth was on the surface of the wall materials.

If however, the mold was caused by a severe water leak and the wallboard became saturated, then the mold's hyphal structure (microscopic branches) likely became embedded in the wallboard. In this instance, simply wiping with Clorox and water won't help much.

Treatment with Kilz or even an encapsulating paint (I.e. Fosters) will be sufficient in the first instance. This treatment would not be effective in the second example - involving the hyphal structures.

I agree with others that you should test the air for airborne mold. I would suggest however, that you only do that AFTER you are personally satisfied that the seller treated the mold as outlined in the first example. If however, the wallboard was wet from a water leak, and if the structural integrity of the wallboard was compromised, opt to replace it (or have the seller do so). In this case, air testing should only be considered after the work is safely completed.

When wallboard is affected by live liquid water and the structural integrity of the wallboard is compromised, cut it out. Make that problem really go away.

If the mold is because of condensation and was only present on the surface, a good wiping, treatment with paint (Kilz or Fosters) and a quick air sampling can easily resolve your concerns.

Either way, it offers you a good point of negotiation on reducing the offer price for a property.

Travis West
CIEC (Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant)
MAC0325 (Mold Assessment Consultant licensed by the Texas Department of State Health Services)

Hi Lashinda. Welcome to Bigger Pockets!

I too am from the Houston area. My partner and I live on the North side of town and routinely look at homes in that area.

Can you put us on your buyer's list? Please let us know if you get any good deals that you'd like to wholesale.

Stay in touch!

Travis West

Hi Bob.

My perspective is from Texas, but I was born, raised, and educated in Wisconsin ...

If you really did do the cleanup properly and you want to give your potential buyers some level of assurance, why not pay several hundred dollars to have airborne mold testing done. You could also let the air testing company know where the moisture came in and where you did the remediation. They could then do a physical inspection of the wallboard, floors, window frames, etc. to make sure that moisture and discoloration from mold doesn't remain, and to provide their "professional opinion" on that information.

Air testing - along with a well written report - should go a long way towards answering any potential questions that might surface. Besides, if any potential buyer DOES have a question, your only real recourse to answering their concerns will be to test.

In my opinion, you look better (more proactive - less guilty) if you do the testing and offer the report and results along with your disclosure. If you don't want to offer them with the disclosure, at least have the disclosure handy to offer anyone with questions or concerns.

That's the upside. What about the downside?

It is possible that when you did the remediation, you didn't fully contain the molds you saw. Sometimes, tearing out damaged construction materials can cause molds to become airborne. Are those molds still in the air ... or settled in the carpeting? Poor containment or work practices can allow this to occur.

If testing shows that you still have mold concerns (airborne or settled mold) in the home then you're going to have to arrange for a thorough cleaning of the areas that remain contaminated. This too could cost you several hundreds of dollars. And ... once the cleaning is finished, you will likely have to pay for more air testing - sort of a "clearance test!"

Mold spores are very small. Simply seeing a one-inch diameter spot of mold could represent up to one-million spores. Added to that, mold spores can easily detach and become airborne during the tear-out/remediation activities. If you didn't use containment in the area where the work was being done (plastic sheets to isolate and contain dust/debris) then you may in fact have an issue that does need to be addressed.

* Testing is the only way you're going to know for sure that the work was done sufficiently.

* Testing is also the only way a buyer is going to be satisfied that they are getting a home without mold issues.

Texas (where I live) regulates air sampling and remediation companies. But it still allows homeowners to do the work on their own. What Texas does offer to homeowners however, is the option to pay for testing (as I am recommending you do) and once the results are received - assuming they show no further mold problems - provide an official Texas Department of Insurance form completed by the air testing company showing that all is well. This form then guarantees that a home cannot be denied insurance for that single mold event.

Best of luck.
IMHO, a visual inspection and air testing by a professional to confirm that there are no problems (i.e. airborne mold, damaged materials were replaced) is your best option here.

Good luck!

Travis West
CIEC (Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant)
MAC0325 (Licensed Texas Mold Assessment Consultant)

Hey here Robert. I am on the opposite side of town ... In The Woodlands.

I think you will find a great group of supportive people here at BP. I have had fun and learned a lot in the past 3-4 weeks.

Jump in. Post questions. You will be amazed at the level of experience and type of help available here.

Travis

Hi Jason.

Clasps podium is ubiquitous. It is the most common form of mold in both the outside and indoor air. Having said that though, you probably shouldn't be seeing it growing on floor joists.

This can probably be removed pretty easily by a mold company using a HEPA vacuum, some soap and water, and some safe work practices.

My first question to you would be, "Where did the moisture come from to encourage that much mold to grow?"

You will have to identify and resolve the moisture source or it is going to recur.

Travis West

Alton.

The technical term for removing mold is "remediation." Abatement is commonly used for asbestos. With that said, I would like to recommend that you find a professional company using professional standards. That's one of the first steps to having the job done correctly. Hiring Benny, Guido, Lurch, and Associates who have wet-vacs and some used plastic in the back of their cars will only cause you heartache!

Visit the non-profit Indoor Air Quality Association. They are an international association who train and maintain qualified remediation companies within their membership. To do that, visit IAQA.org. In the upper right corner of the home page, you'll see the "Find and IAQ Professional" button. From there, you can drill down to contractor; remediation; Massachusetts; and even zip code.

Ask questions that YOU should know the answer to, such as:

Will you place the remediation area under containment? And, explain what containment is. (Answer: Containment usually involves 2 layers of plastic sheeting creating a wall separating the containment area from other parts of the home. This is sealed well using tape or other methods. The purpose of containment is to ensure that airborne molds, dust, fibers, etc. do not get into the un-contaminated portions of the home.)

Will you scrub the air? (Answer: Scrubbing the air involves using large fans that have 3 types of air filters on them. Their purpose is to pull the dusty air from the contamination work area, in and to filter out the dusts, fibers, spores, and other mold pieces.)

Will you keep the containment under a negative pressure? (Answer: Negative pressure ensures that any work being done in the containment is isolated from surrounding areas. As an example, if someone were smoking in containment, could you smell the smoke outside of containment. If you could then the containment would be blowing air and would be "positively pressurized." If you couldn't then the containment would be considered to be "negatively pressurized.")

How will you discard the mold contaminated debris? (Answer: Mold contaminated gyspum wallboard should be broken into small pieces and carefully placed into large plastic bags - while still in the containment. Once filled, the bags should be sealed, they should be wiped or vacuumed clean, and then (and ONLY then) should they be removed from the containment. This will ensure that errant mold spores do not migrate from the containment area into surrounding areas.)

Will you repair the source of the moisture or do I need to call another contractor? (Answer: Many remediation contractors will only remove mold. They are not remodeling contractors.)

Will you run dehumidifiers? (Answer: Your heat/air conditioner will not be supplying any conditioned air to the contaiment since it's isolated. Consequently, the contractor should bring in dehumidification units designed to dry the air in the containment until the ALL CLEAR has been given.)

How will we know it's been done correctly and it's ready to rebuild? (Answer: Some companies may try to say they can test their work after they have finished. Then, they will provide you with a report showing that they did a great job! That's really a case of "the fox watching the hen house." They should NEVER test and approve their own work. Rather, you should look for a testing company that can do post remediation sampling to confirm that all work was completed correctly. That may involve extra expense, but it's worth it in the long run.

Certainly as in all business transactions, you should ask them for a business license and insist on insurance. Reputable mold remediation companies should qualify on both issues.

Good luck!

Travis West
CIEC 0609003 (Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant)
MAC0325 (Licensed Mold Assessment Consultant; TX-DSHS)

Hi Andrew. Welcome to BP. We just got here ourselves and have found some terrific resources.

We too am from the Houston area ... living in The Woodlands. My partner Ginny and I tend to invest in the North side of town right now. We may choose to branch out some in the future, but we want to get our feet wet, feel the cool, and learn.

If you haven't already listened to the podcasts, you should. I work all around town (my full time job) and find listening to them is a great way to get an experienced person's perspective on real estate investing. (There is a link to the podcasts at the top of this page in yellow!)

Welcome. We look forward to seeing you online here.

Travis (and Ginny)

Please understand that this response is based on you NOT stating that there was a water leak, window leak, or some other obvious source of moisture.

A POSSIBLE SOURCE
The most likely reason for the mold to occur in that area is lack of air movement. Some evidence of discoloration on gypsum wallboard surfaces does occasionally occur when furnishings (bed, dresser, or other furniture) are located along a perimeter wall.

Moisture (especially in humid or waterside locations) always tries to migrate into a conditioned environment. It is apparently doing that in your bedroom, but the lack of free air movement between the wall and bed (or headboard) is not allowing the moisture laden air to move. Consequently, that space between the wall and bed has a higher level of (relative) humidity. That humidity is supporting the development of mold.

TESTING
I would NOT recommend that you do any testing. Test kits for consumers are poorly designed and are not quantifiable. They will not tell you what you want to know and are a pure waste of your money.

KILLING GHE MOLD
As for killing the mold, there are a lot of serious misunderstandings a out that. A dead mold is just as allergenic as a live mold. That's because people have allergies to the proteins in the mold spores and hyphal structure (branches, etc.). Killing is not a solution.

WIPE THE MOLD AWAY
Again, assuming this is not caused by a live water leak, the best solution is to mix up a solution of mild soap and water (simple dish soap) and just wipe the mold away. To do this, wet the rag in your soap solution, wring it out, wipe the wall (1 time) and then turn the rag to a clean area. Repeat this process until the mold is gone.

If the landlord wants to paint the wall with a Kilz brand encapsulating paint "after the mold has been wiped away" then that's okay. It is just peace of mind for her and it helps to manage her potential liability.

Remember ... No spray chemicals ... No killing the mold first as there is absolutely no benefit. Consider rearranging your furniture to allow better airflow. And, be happy that this is isolated to an easily accessible area.

As my first paragraph stated, this all assumes that you have not had any active leaks of liquid "live" water in that area in the recent past. If you have, then the process and protocols (as well as the owner's liabilities) change.

Travis West
CIEC (Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant; American Council for Accredited Certification)
MAC0326 (Licensed Mold Assessment Consultant; Texas Department of State Health Services)

Thanks Sharon. It looks like something that could work well.