All Forum Posts by: Travis West

congratulations @Jeff Jenkins. That is a great accomplisent. Good luck finding a reasonable broker. I don't have any suggestions but I am sure they are out there.

Q. How long did it take you to get your license? Did you study full time or part-time?

Travis West

Hi Sophia.

Yes, excess water in the crawl space could very well be the reason for the mold throughout the house. The vapors from that water found their way into the living area and encouraged (i.e. supported) the mold growth.

To answer your question about mold inside the walls, let me say that there is ALWAYS mold inside of a wall. That's just a natural thing, since mold is everywhere. Do I think it's started growing inside of the wall because of a pipe break in the crawl space? I do not!

It's most likely that the moisture (water vapor) causing mold on the surface of the walls was there and did not penetrate into the wall cavity. No! I do not think you need to tear out any walls to look for mold. Again, this is assuming that there are no water stains on the walls, ceilings, floors, etc.

Again, pricing for remediation is only a guess on my part. As a consultant who primarily focuses on commercial projects, I often charge $1,000 on a project while the remediation contractor may get 20 times that amount. I am not good at gauging what you will have to pay those guys.

Remember, your house is likely only going to need wiping and vacuuming. It's not going to require any demolition. That can probably be done in 2 days time. It shouldn't be much over $2,000 and could certainly come in much, much less than that. (See, I told you I don't know!)

Jason's recommendation for EMSL is a good one. I only use two (2) analytical laboratories. EMSL is one of them as they are a national laboratory and have numerous highly trained people. EMSLdotCom is where you will find them.

Travis

Hello Sophia.

The issues raised by Rick Baggenstoss are a good place to start. You should also ask if they do the "entire enchilada!" (That's a technical mold-remediation term.) As in ... do they do the testing before-hand, then complete the remediation, then do the testing afterwards, to prove that they did the work correctly? It sounds good in principal, but it's actually a case of "the fox watching the hen house!"

In some states and localities, doing testing, remediation, and follow-up testing is not considered an issue. But do you really want a remediation contractor doing the work and then proving to you - via their own testing - that they did the work correctly. I doubt it.

Since your issue is so obvious, I would not recommend doing any air testing before the work is done. You've got mold - that's pretty obvious. If you wanted to have a single "tape lift" type of sample taken at one of the heaviest areas, you could. That would tell you what's there. That information may come in handy when the post-testing is done.

I think you just need to hire a remediation or water restoration company that knows how to remove it. Have them do their work. You might also ask them who they know that can do follow-up (clearance) testing. That should always be another company that has no financial or other interests in the remediation company. Reliable remediation companies should have no problem giving you the name of someone who can test and verify their work.

Do It Yourself
You could certainly do the demo before remediation, but you will have to notify everyone who comes into the house that there are high levels of mold airborne and on material surfaces. Even the hardiest of remodeling contractors can react to high levels of mold. Many do react just because they've been exposed to it in the past. Your choice here is related to your notifying people and your potential liability.

Again, you can follow Rick's advice "You should do a quick wipedown yourself / team, if you have one. Do your demo. Wear high quality respirators!" He's not talking about doing the detailed cleaning, but rather getting the bulk of the matter off of walls, ceilings, fixtures, furnishings, and perhaps vacuuming the carpet as well.

If you choose to do some level of cleaning yourself (prior to demo) then you can simply use mild dish-soap and water. Dawn or some other dish detergent. These soaps work exceptionally well at picking up large quantities of very small spores. The dish soap increases the surfactancy of the water (it makes the water wetter). This means smaller molecules of water work better at picking up the dirt, grime, dust, particles, and yes mold spores.

Good luck!

Travis West

Hi Chris.

I can't really say what kind of mold that is.

This is not growing "passively" because of elevated humidity. Rather, this pattern looks like water was spraying onto the wall surfaces and wetted the materials. In addition, you'll note that the mold growth is darker and heavier near the bottom of the wall. This is because the entire area where the discoloration is was soaked, and gravity took the upper water down. Consequently, the upper wall was wet enough to support some measure of this mold, while the lower wall stayed wet longer - since the water migrated downward - and supported a greater quantity of growth in the lower wall areas.

The growth pattern and color does not imply that it's Stachybotrys or Chaetomium which occur when there is a lot of mold over a long period of time. Beyond that, I can't say without testing it as there are many molds that will grow from liquid live water and will be brown in color.

Pricing the remediation isn't one of the things I do. Rather, as a consultant, I attempt to discern the source and then write a protocol for removal - designed to keep occupants and workers safe and to remove the mold damaged materials in their entirety.

If that's the only corner that shows that type of damage the remediation costs may be small. If however, this type of mold goes some 10' down one wall, then the job will require containment of some sort and could run "up to" several thousand dollars.

Sorry, but that's the best I can offer.

Travis West

Hi Sophia.

What you're looking at is likely Aspergillus/Penicillium or Cladosporium type molds. The first two can be allergenic, the third not so much. All three can grow when the relative humidity in a space remains too high for too long.

Your photograph is very familiar to me as I see this on furniture in humid environments, and in empty spaces - those not receiving conditioned air - regularly.

I won't say that you shouldn't worry, but I will make these claims:

1. It can be easily cleaned/wiped, and vacuumed from every surface. It should be done professionally though to make sure that the pros remove all stains from all surfaces.
2. When you find this on numerous surfaces, that's a clue that air conditioning (dehumidification) hasn't been occurring lately.
3. A small amount of the first two molds mentioned can grow and bloom very quickly in a humid environment. Those will then release spores which will occupy a much larger area, and on and on. That's how a home can be filled with it in a relatively short period of time.
4. This type of growth is often found in closets of homes that are occupied. That's because smaller closets usually don't receive conditioned air, and the doors are usually kept closed. If the closet is on an exterior wall then it has two strikes against it and will very likely grow the light grey/light green stuff you're seeing on doors, clothes, and especially leather shoes or boots.

I wouldn't discount that there "might" be a leak somewhere. Leaks however, will only support these types of mold early on (shortly following the leak). A continual leak or one that became very wet (heavily wetted) will see other spores growing and competing with the molds you photographed. What I'm saying is that other molds will enjoy lots of water and will start producing their own toxins to kill the molds you photographed. If you're still seeing these molds (light grey/light green) then you probably don't have the other molds around. Hence, you likely don't have any major leaks around.

I'd still say that you need to check for areas on the ceiling, walls or carpet that might be wet. Not finding wet or water stained surfaces however would not surprise me though. As I said originally, these types of spores can proliferate with excess humidity (you're in Virginia right?) and don't need "liquid live water!"

For your future reference, water comes in three phases. They include:

1. Solid phase
2. Liquid phase
3. Gas phase

Think of them as ICE, Water, and Water Vapor. Each phase of water will support different types (genus) of molds when present.

Good luck. Post any follow-up questions and I will try to respond.

Travis West

State-licensed Mold Assessment Consultant (Texas License MAC0325); Certified Indoor Environmental Consultant (CIEC 0306009) American Council for Accredited Certification

wow! The site asked me to reload and each time I did, it re-posted. Sorry.

Travis

Hi Michael. Welcome!

Enjoy and learn.

Man! I wish I had a son like you!

????

Travis

Hi Michael. Welcome!

Enjoy and learn.

Man! I wish I had a son like you!

????

Travis

Hi Michael. Welcome!

Enjoy and learn.

Man! I wish I had a son like you!

????

Travis

if you get around to doing demo on the walls you must consider using containment (plastic barriers) to prevent the spread of spores all through the basement.

Carefully and slowly cutting small pieces of damaged wallboard is safer than hitting it with a hammer or breaking out large pieces.

The EPA has a great guide document on doing it yourself vs. using outside contractors.

You are right. Mold isn't likely to grow on concrete but it will grow on dirty and wet concrete. Containing spores when you tear out that wall will help manage future problems on other walls, home furnishings, and even concrete surfaces.

Travis