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All Forum Posts by: Ellie Narie

Ellie Narie has started 94 posts and replied 200 times.

Post: Should appraiser go inside the units of a 4plex or no?

Ellie NariePosted
  • Investor
  • Ashland, OR
  • Posts 201
  • Votes 37
Originally posted by @Jaysen Medhurst:

If the lender is okay with it, I would keep the appraiser out, @Ellie Narie. No need to increase exposure, it shows your future tenants that you care about their safety. I believe the appraiser will have access to the inspection report (don't quote me on that) and he's not going to get more in the weeds than the inspector anyway.

Here's what stands out to me from your list of issues. You can request the seller to fix/pay for these, but who knows what they'll go for. I don't know your market. This is a conversation to have with your agent. How much to push on.

  1. Rodents. This is the big one. Hopefully, it's just squirrels...hopefully. I'd want a pest professional to inspect and get a quote on full remediation and repair of any damage.
  2. Disconnected bath fan. May or may not be a sizable fix. This is a huge issue, though. Especially during the winter, the hot humid air from the bath is going into the attic hitting the cold underside of the roof and condensing. This will lead to mold and rot...if it hasn't started already.
  3. The carpet...maybe just ask that it be pulled up. Is there hardwood underneath? Is that what you want in your unit?

 I am pretty much indifferent about what kind of carpet it is (carpet is fine with me), as long as it's nice and clean. The carpet in that one unit looks gross. Are there any negatives about having a drive-by appraisal instead of having the appraiser go inside? If I want to refinance in a year, then I'd need another appraisal, right? What if it comes in a lot lower? 

Post: Should appraiser go inside the units of a 4plex or no?

Ellie NariePosted
  • Investor
  • Ashland, OR
  • Posts 201
  • Votes 37

My lender said that because of coronavirus, it is possible to choose to have the appraiser not go inside the units (I'm getting an FHA loan for a 4plex). Should I still have the appraiser go inside or no?

I also got a home inspection, and the home inspector went inside all the units, so the tenants are ok with people going in there... but is there any benefit for me if the appraiser goes inside vs not?  Here are the facts about the property: 

Pros: 

-2/4 of the units have nice wood flooring. 

-All the units look "clean" and in "decent" condition, with some "buts"... 

Cons: 

-All the units need more caulking in the bathrooms and there is some visible (minor) vinyl water damage in the bathrooms (vinyl looks black-ish in some small areas). 

-Exhaust fans in the laundry rooms not turning on in 3/4 units. 

-Attic has signs of rodents (feces). Inspector said rodents probably climb on the trees and get in there, because there are tall trees touching the building. 

-One of the exhaust fans from one of the unit's bathrooms is disconnected in the attic, so the fan essentially blows air from the bathroom into the attic... 

-One unit has bad stained carpet, black in a lot of areas, but it hasn't been professionally cleaned yet, as the owners evicted the tenants from that unit (it will be the unit I will live in because it is vacant). Should I ask sellers to replace carpet?

Besides this, all the units look "clean" and in "decent" shape.

There are also some problems on the exterior. Some signs of dry rot, there was a little place where there was exposed wood (I know FHA doesn't like this, what should I do? It's hard to notice though). The siding has water damage in one area of the building, but otherwise, the building "looks decent" at first glance.

What repairs should I request from the seller? Where should I request "credits/discounts" on the purchase price from the seller? What does the seller absolutely need to fix for the loan to fund? Should I have the appraiser go in the units, or no? 

Originally posted by @Lance Lvovsky:

One must look at the economic substance of the transaction over the legal form. The economics may prevail in coming to an answer. For example, frequently clients want to add a child to their bank account, for ease of administration when they die. In a scenario like one I describe, this is not a gift. It is merely done for administration purposes. The legal form may appear it is a gift... but the tax law in situations like this puts economic substance over form.

You can ask your CPA for advice specific to your fact pattern.

Do they have to be related? If it is unrelated people, can this still be ok?

I'm wondering... if I get an FHA loan and buy a 4-plex to owner occupy, and if I put another person on the deed who is NOT on the mortgage, would gift taxes be triggered? And if so, how are those calculated? If the 4plex is worth 500k (but I only put down 3.5%), does that mean that I'm "gifting" 250k to the other person? Or am I only "gifting" half of the downpayment?

And another question-- if I will be the only one claiming all the income and all the expenses for this property, does that mean that the other person is "gifting" me their portion - aka 50% - of the rental income from this property? Does this mean that the other person still has to claim half the rental income?

We want to structure it so that we are both on the deed, but I'm the only one on the mortgage, and I'm the only one that will claim the income and expenses, without incurring any additional gift taxes or anything. The other person doesn't want any of the rental income shown anywhere on their tax return. 

I heard that you can't get any 2-4 unit properties with an FHA loan if you have a cosigner. BUT, I also know a lender that does FHA construction loans and you can build a DUPLEX (not a 3-4 unit, but just a 2 unit) property with that loan AS LONG AS you qualify for it without using the potential rents as income.

Now, with that said, I'm wondering if I could BUY a duplex instead of building one and still have a cosigner. If we qualify for it without having to use the potential rent, could FHA let us do that?

Another question, what if the cosigner already has an FHA loan of their own, can they co-borrow with me and get a 2nd FHA loan? I heard that people can be a non-occupant co-signer on another FHA loan even if they already have their own FHA loan, but I'm wondering, can they be a co-borrower, not just a cosigner, on a 2nd FHA loan? So it would be my first FHA loan and their second FHA loan.

Originally posted by @Andrew Postell:

@Ellie Narie I'm not really sure why anyone would do this by choice but yes, you can add anyone you want to own your home. Now, the IRS doesn't care about who claims the rental income but FHA/Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac will care that the person you added owns the property. Meaning, they will hold the taxes and insurance against that person....with no rental income to offset it. So it will restrict that person from qualifying from future things. Now, they might still be ok ok if they have great income, etc. but that's the only thing to be aware of. Hope all of that makes sense. Thanks!

What do you mean it would restrict them? As in, if that person were to apply for their own mortgage, the taxes would count against them? Is that correct? 

Originally posted by @Kyle Bambu:

So I take it that you want to take advantage of only putting 3.5% down and then refinance as soon as possible to pull out the 20% extra equity that the property appraised for? First off, you are probably better off getting a 3% down conventional loan if you are trying to do that because the rates will be lower. I do not believe the lender will allow you to refinance so quickly after purchasing -- you would probably have to wait 6 months and then get a second appraisal. However, you could probably go get a HELOC right away. If your lender offers them, then it shouldn't be a problem to use the same appraisal if you apply right away. You can also pull out more equity with a HELOC (sometimes up to 100% LTV) without paying for thousands in additional closing costs.

I heard that the 3% conventional only works for single family homes, not for 2-4 unit homes. I'm less interested in pulling out a heloc, but more interested in being able to get another fha loan again. 

If you get a multi unit building with an FHA loan, and it appraises for 20% more than you paid for it... can you refinance it to conventional within a few months?

And if so, will you need a new appraisal, even if you just got it appraised a few months ago? 

And would you not have to live in it for the remainder of the year if you refinance out of fha?

If I buy an FHA 4-plex house hack and am the only person on the mortgage, can I add another person (not a spouse) to the deed? And if so, can I still claim all the rental income and expenses, or does the IRS force us to split that 50/50?

Post: What price would you offer for this 4plex?

Ellie NariePosted
  • Investor
  • Ashland, OR
  • Posts 201
  • Votes 37

I'm looking to buy a 4plex, and my realtor introduced me to an off market deal. The quad has 2/1 units, each renting at 900 a month, and one of them is empty (so perfect for a house hack). My market is very tight, I live in a small town on the west coast, and 4plexes come on the market rarely (and this one isn't even technically "on" the market). There was one 4plex that came on the market a couple months ago, that's literally on the same street as this one, with the same rents, and got 3 CASH offers of 500k.

But with the whole corona thing, surely I shouldn't be paying 500k here? What would be a good offer? I'd also be responsible for water/sewer/trash which adds an additional $350 per month of expenses on top of the mortgage. I hope to manage the property myself, and to use an FHA loan.

Help, what should I be offering to make house hacking work? The price wasn't specified, the owners want us to make them an offer,but it was hinted that they wanted somewhere along the lines of 450-500k. Should I offed 430k? Or less? What do you think?