All Forum Posts by: Nick Graff

Update...

I just wanted to let you know what happened in this transaction.

1. 1. George had a written agreement with Mike that expired (I am guessing a 1 week option).
2. 2. George told his mentor Bob about the deal and I am guessing that Bob didn't look at the option period. 
3. 3. The option contract expired and George and Bob still kept promoting it. 
4. 4. Mike decides that he is not willing to sell to any of us unless we pay more than the original option price.

@Jill DeWit - For me I started with driving for dollars because I saw people making good money doing it and I didn't have a budget to do direct mail. I agree with you on targeting but it still takes several mailings/months to get enough leads to make a deal. 

With driving for dollars you can still target your efforts. I go thru my MLS system and find the starter home neighborhoods. I look for houses that were built before 1990 (so there is a good chance the houses in the neighborhood need work), sold within the last 12 months with an FHA loan (so that I can see where the majority of first time home buyers are buying), and 3 BD only.

Starter homes are high turnover. People are so excited to move into their first home but once they realize the neighborhood is not as glamorous as they saw it through their emotional lenses when they first bought it, they set a goal to find a move-up home where they end up living for a longer period of time. 

I don't target move-up homes when driving for dollars because the % of them that are beat-up is low in my area (which is where the time and gas money is wasted). But they make great direct mail prospects because the profit is bigger.

Also, it is important to note that I scrub the leads that I gather from out in the field against tax records to find out how much is owed. If the property has no equity, is an REO, is a pre-foreclosure, is on the MLS, or was bought too recently (meaning an investor bought it and hasn't gotten around to rehabbing it yet), then I don't send a mailer.

Long story short, I wouldn't discourage anyone from driving for dollars. It is a proven method and as @Robbie Knecht points out, you will make some great contacts and spread the word about your business.

I send the mailer anyways. Make sure to include "Address Service Requested" below your return address and you will get the postman/lady showing up at your door asking for $.59 per return. 

This is how the big credit companies, magazine companies, etc. do it because they can simply update their database and keep sending info to a past customer/warm prospect, versus spending 10x as much to get a cold lead to become a customer/warm prospect.

Here is a screenshot of one of my returns...

You have to send first class for this to work. Don't forget that first class stamps are cheaper for postcards than for envelopes. This mailer was sent via Click2Mail, but I have sent one-off mailers with live stamps and got ASR returns as well.

You will find that the postal employees don't understand what you are doing if you ask them questions. 

There's a group on Facebook called "Internet Marketing Super Friends". This is a free group and similar in value to an internet marketer as BP is to a real estate investor. There are tons of copywriters on there. Just join the group, make a post explaining your need, and you will get advice and offers. This is a highly regarded group where some of the gurus hang out and give free advice. 

The group can be found at... 

facebook dot com forward slash imsuperfriends

I don't share the same opinion about Renatus as most of the people on this thread. I have never been a part of Renatus but I know the system very well because I used to be a sales rep for Nouveau Riche. By definition, it is not an MLM. Multi-level marketing depends on your underlings to make you money via "residual income". Network marketing would be a more accurate definition for Renatus. They teach you to talk with your friends and family about the opportunity and after you have made a few sales, you are "certified". After that, your "mentor" does not make any money from you. It becomes like any other sales job... you get a commission from the company for selling their product.

I think that is fair. If someone asked me for my time to teach them "1 on 1" how to sell, market, etc., I would hope to benefit from that as well.

I do agree that BiggerPockets is the more economical route. However, BiggerPockets requires more creativity. Not everyone knows to ask questions like "best guerilla marketing techniques", "what is the best way to contact a personal representative", "how to screen for motivation", or any other question that comes from doing business. People who are just getting started don't know what they don't know.

I have personally made more money than I spent with the company from doing deals that I learned how to do from attending the classes. 20K is a lot of dough but so is a 10k assignment fee that the person didn't know was possible weeks earlier. It only takes 2 deals to recover your investment. 

Today, I am doing business with connections I made from Nouveau Riche from over 5 years ago. When they sell you on the "community", it is legit. There are people locally in my back yard that are doing deals. If you are a good networker, this adds alot of value to your business.

I never felt ripped off and I learned more about sales and marketing from that company than any other education in my life. I have been thru the CCIM education program and got certified there as well. I personally got more from Nouveau Riche. The cost was more with NR, but not that much more. I learned more practical things like how to wholesale, how to fix & flip, how to buy & hold, how to setup my business plan, how to do quickbooks, how to use a self directed retirement plan, etc. These courses are taught by experts, not people who have studied to become a teacher.

The reason I am not with Renatus is for personal reasons. I left on good terms and may choose to get involved with them again in the future if my business model allows for it.

How much did you pay in interest for your Prosper loan?

I drive neighborhoods and mail to owners of vacant, ugly houses. I run into trusts alot and many times the owner of record is the attorney who set up the trust for the beneficiary. 

How can I find out definitively who the decision maker is?

Thank you all for the responses, help, and encouragement!

Does this help?...

http://screencast.com/t/M6P9qPql4M

I am on a local wholesalers email list (I will call him Bob) and I assumed he had a contract direct with the seller so I signed a co-marketing agreement with him and blasted my email list. The real owner (also a local wholesaler that I will call Mike) called me up and asked why I am promoting his deal. Mike bought it out of probate a couple months ago and is on title. Mike is telling me that he is fine with paying me to find him a buyer but Bob is saying that he has a contract with Mike to promote his deal. Mike says he doesn't even know Bob. Another piece of info that is important in this mystery is that a novice investor (I will call him George) made an offer to Mike but I don't know any of the terms of the deal or if there was a formal deal. George and Bob are associated. George is Bob's  "student". So my assumption is that Bob taught George how to find deals and George got an option contract with Mike and it expired. Now George and Bob are still promoting the deal assuming that Mike will take a lower price than Mike is willing to take. My challenge is that Bob is now angry that I am talking to Mike and Mike is angry that people are promoting his deal without permission. Bob is the first one to contact me with this deal but Mike wants nothing to do with him. I had 2 different cash buyers look at the property in the last 24 hours and one of them is interested. If he makes an offer, should I send it to Bob or Mike? The other thing is that I have closed a deal with Bob and I trust him and do not want to go around him. He is telling me that he is 100% sure that he has a contract (thru George) with Mike and that any offers I receive need to go thru him and he will pay me the fee we agreed on (which is more than Mike is willing to pay me).

What would you do in this situation?