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All Forum Posts by: Nathan Hui

Nathan Hui has started 16 posts and replied 106 times.

Post: What determines ARV for Multifamily Properties?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

Is ARV on a multifamily home based solely on its ability to produce rental income? If not, what other factors exist? I am asking because I am looking at a small multi family deal. It is a quad with plenty of deferred maintenance and good potential for rent raises.

200k Purchase Price, $2100 Current Rental Income, $40k in repairs/reno, $2800 to $3000 post-rehab monthly rental income. Sounds pretty good and looks pretty good on paper to me. But what if my resale value can't get up to 240k? I am thinking a large raise in rent roll should justify the price increase but if I am wrong this deal could be a bad deal. 

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Brandon Roof:

@Nathan Hui I'm really impressed by the amount of due diligence you have performed and your research appears to be quite sound and not particularly speculative. The similarity in comps you have nearby would give me much more confidence in proceeding.

The key at this point seems to be, and I think you're slightly struggling with the same thing, is how to add as much value as possible in order to increase rent and entice tenants.

Continue to drill down as to what tenants will appreciate most. Is it high end fixtures and appliances or community features such as the playground or sports courts?

It may not hurt to survey tenants of the complex you are looking at or even those at the opposing complexes.

From here, it appears as if you have one of two directions to go, align yourself as much as possible with the surrounding properties but by offering similar amenities at a more competitive price point, or completely differentiate yourself by offering something they don't that clientele will value more. Would people go crazy for free wifi or above and beyond pet friendliness by building a small dog park.

Both of the above examples could be terrible ideas, but hopefully it gets you thinking about all the options you have in front of you when determining the best way to proceed.

Great job and I'm looking forward top see how things progress!

Brandon thanks for the support. I love the input about creating a competitive edge. The ideas are actually really neat. I will be sure to keep you posted on the progress. As of now due diligence is being extended so that we can get access to the last unit. The seller/PM is having issues with that tenant. This should be interesting. 

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Bjorik Mutize:

Hey Nathan!

As said above it is better to analyze by worst case than by squeezing numbers to get good projections. 

What does it look like when you bump up your vacancy and cap ex 2-3%?

Did you already factor in your closing costs in your down payment?

Thanks for reviewing my deal. I agree safe numbers are crucial. I can't assume everything will go perfectly. I will go back and play with my variable expenses. 

You caught that! That is awesome, I am planning to get the seller to pay closing cost for a 5k increase in purchase price. I forgot to add that in there. The seller understands I need cash up front and does not mind raising the price so that I can have more cash in hand. 

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Brandon Roof:

The numbers have improved since your last calculation, but it may still be based on a number of assumptions.  I believe the 4% interest rate is going to be difficult to pull off.  Not impossible, but unlikely unless you've already locked in a rate with a lender.  Every percentage point will have significant implications.  A 5% rate would add another $40k to your 30-year mortgage.

We are also assuming that your additional $40k rehab budget it going to create $50k in value.  Again, not saying that this isn't the case but you'll want to be pretty darn sure before making that assumption.  This leads to the potential domino effect of raising the rents from about $513.75 to $700, which is a huge jump (almost 40%).  Your going to want to do a great deal of due diligence and confer with realtors, property managers and other trusted sources in the industry to confirm that the rehab investment will in fact lead to a return and that the going rate in the area for your type of unit can justify a $700 price tag, because if it doesn't, you're going to be in an even greater world of hurt than with your first calculation.

Lastly, some of your expenses shifted.  Some for the better, others possibly not.  Vacancy down, which your prior 6% could be borderline, let alone your new 4%.  Some of that is made back with the capex and repairs, which hovers at a much more likely 8% now, so that's good.  Insurance went down, which given the improvements you intend to make and increase in value, the insurance would naturally have to increase as well as it is now covering a more valuable property.  Management down is unlikely as well as your prior 10% is more typical across the industry.

On paper, this deal looks much better than it did before, but it is also likely to be much riskier than before as the changes may be predicated on a numerous dangerous assumptions.  Hopefully, some of these numbers are actual that you have received quotes for, such as with the insurance and property management.  Otherwise, you could be digging yourself an even deeper hole by moving the goal posts in order to make a nonviable deal "work".

I'd still very much consider moving on from this property barring a significantly lower purchase price and/or the ability to increase rents as you've proposed, but you would have to be absolutely certain that it's feasible.

Brandon, 

Let me start by saying I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and thoroughness. 

Here is the stuff I have nailed down.The interest rate is an actual rate. Actually, the lender told me 3.62% but told me to use 3.75% to be safe since it fluctuates. I put 4% which gives me some cushion with financing. Per the lender PMI will be $135/mo. He did tell me conventional financing would be a significantly higher interest rate. The insurance is an actual premium quoted for a 600k rebuild value policy that includes vandalism/malice/loss of rents/liability and so on. The taxes have been in the $1800s historically for the past 5 years and my calculations are assuming a 25% increase in taxes. The management company that currently manages the property charges a flat fee of 8% of rental income, no hidden fees. (I intend to manage myself but I calculate it in for the future)

Here are the things you stated that concern me most. ARV, that is the one wild card I am pretty concerned about. Sure I can drop 40k and raise rents over the course of a year. But will my ARV increase? Or will I spend 40k to get only 20k in equity. That would be a bad deal. This is actually my most unknown component. I don't know how to reasonable predict ARV. In my eyes the value of a multifamily property lies in its ability to produce rental income. So if I can raise the rent roll from $2100 to $2800, wouldn't that increase its value to other investors? I really need help with this part...

Rent raises. I have done some market research that I think really has some substance. I would love to hear what you think about it. This may be little long winded but this I essentially why I haven't walked away from the deal... Current/historical rent roll has been $500-$550/unit for this property. My agent who knows the market very well says he is confident the units would all rent for $600/unit "as-is". I actually agree with this and I think it is realistic. I am confident that the reason the rent roll is low is because of deferred maintenance and minimal involvement with the property. The current owner owns 200 doors and from what I can tell he is looking more for occupancy than he is looking for maximizing his rental income stream. He acquired most of his doors during the recession and had no need to increase rents in order to cash flow. This still isn't my hard evidence. 

Across the street there are two apartment communities that were built by the same builder of this quad during the 1970s. Arbor Terrace and Guest House ApartmentsFor both apartment complexes the two bedroom apartments have the exact same layout. Im not exaggerating, I will include pictures of the property I am under contract for and the ones from an actual Arbor Terrace unit I walked through yesterday. Arbor Terrace is asking $799 plus a $30 water fee for the exact same 2BR/1.5BA 1200sqft unit. They do have a pool, playground and gate. I definitely won't have that. Guest House also has the same unit in terms of specs however they include stainless steel appliances and include a washer and dryer. They get $925/unit for the 2BR 1.5BA. These apartments have waiting lists for people to rent. 

My plan is simple, provide a more updated apartment with a washer dryer and ask significantly less than across the street. I will include photos below. The first image is the property I am under contract for and the one below is the equivalent photo of an actual arbor terrace unit that will rent for $830. 

Quad Living Room (and my agent trying to convince me to buy the quad)Arbor Terrace Living RoomQuad Living Room Arbor Terrace Living Room (And my daughter) Quad Kitchen Arbor Terrace Kitchen Quad full bath (I can't fix the landscape) Arbor Terrace Full Bath

My estimations for 40k of renovations are high. My contractor is thinking more realistically that it will be around 6k per unit but I know things go wrong and I really want to make this quad competitive against the market so I can be selective in my tenant screening process. Also the exterior needs paint and repairs as well. I am confident that I can make my rental income projections, I just don't know if the price tag is worth it. My estimations on vacancy are based on the fact the these apartments across the street will likely be occupied and a prospective tenant will see that I am offering a washer dryer, nicer kitchen and bathroom for significantly less. 

Please let me know what you think! 

Thanks,

Nathan 

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Adam Harper:

Would you do this deal? It's an 8-unit rental. Any Houston commercial expert advice would be greatly appreciated! Not sure if my numbers are accurate regarding insurance and tax.

I wouldn't, I want higher ROI than that.

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

@Brandon Roof I have an updated the analysis. With roughly 40k I can raise rents substantially. If you have the time please take a look. https://www.biggerpockets.com/topics/744368

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

Hello BP people, 

I want to revisit an old deal I have previously posted.  

My numbers on repairs/rehab are still rough estimates at this moment, it is just an estimate based on what I have seen so far.

*These numbers represent the way this quad will function after we house hack for a year and are 100% tenant occupied.

**I plan to renovate each unit as each "adopted" tenant's lease ends. 

Thanks in advance for the help

View report

Post: My First Buy & Hold Investment and House Hack

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @William Burnson:

Hi Nathan! Thanks for responding. 

Yes, the rental income I calculated is the rents of the other 3 units less the PITI. +440/month. This is with rents that are below market value and haven't risen in 3 years.

I just purchased the house very recently, so the rates are still the same as they were when purchased.

Gross rental income after I move out should be closer to the $4,500 range with some cosmetic updates and one units' floor being replaced. 

I eventually want to use a property manager. Definitely. However, with this being my first one, I wanted to spend some time learning what that is like and since I will be living on the property I believe it will be a great opportunity for me to learn. It will be extra work, but I believe it will prove fruitful in the future when I am working with/hiring my own property managers. 

By "talk to the current tenants" I mean I went and knocked on their doors and asked what it was like living there. Asked about the property I wanted to purchase and also asked about the neigborhood. If you let them talk, people will tell you everything you need to know, probably more. 

Its actually called a Conventional 97% Loan. My PMI will be cancelable and requires less fees up front. I'm telling you, my lender is the man.


I plan to be in real estate for the long haul, my man. I'm house hacking this one until I have enough saved to house hack another, which will hopefully be one year. I want to find some investors to begin the BRRRR method as well in the meantime, as that will allow me to go full-time much sooner.

For now as far as structuring goes: Im not using a property manager for this property, although I plan to in the future; for the rest I used bigger pockets calculators. I will be saving all profit from the rental for capex, maintenance, etc. while counting my saved money on rent as income for the property ~$650/month. The rents have not been raised for 3 years in this property so there is some room to grow as well. 

Thanks for your interest! And best of luck finding yours!

That is awesome. You will clear some cash while living there!

What things are you planning on doing cosmetically in order to improve rental income? I am under contract with mine trying to figure out where my money is best spent. 

What is your exit strategy for the FHA loan? Are you going to refi out after renovations. Or do you plan to do a conventional for the next house hack?

I think doing property management while living there is probably best but it is also intimidating. Im sure you will have some stories, but hopefully not! 

Post: Tenant changing locks

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

@Nathan Hall I think I missed the previous post that you were responding too. Also we may be taking about different technologies. Here is what I’m thinking of...https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...

Post: What is your cutoff for cash flow/door?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Brant Richardson:

Hi Nathan, thanks for revisiting, I missed this interesting post the first time through.  

I look for a minimum of $100 estimated cash flow using relatively conservative numbers. Actual cash flow has turned out to be higher. I'm investing in B, B- suburbs of Kansas City, in 2019 they are 100-120k properties. They were all done with BRRR, so they have $0-10k of my money still in them except the last two which are held free and clear. 100% of the money I receive from my property manager goes into an account which is used for repairs and further acquisitions. The reserves are in place when needed whether they were considered cash flow or ear marked for maintenance in my original calculations . I got lucky with my timing, entering the market in 2013. Although the mid West is considered a no/low appreciation area I have done very well between the instant equity and actual appreciation.

Estimated cash flow formula:  Rent -10% vacancy, -10% maintenance, -10% property management, -principal/interest,-property tax, -insurance.

Thanks for you input! This is great, so CF at $100 with conservative numbers. I appreciate your CF formula and all the details about where, when, and how you are getting your deals. 

I'm guessing you don't actually see 10% vacancy and I'm sure since you BRRR your homes your maintenance overhead is probably minimal. Do you include cap ex into your maintenance expenses?