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All Forum Posts by: Nathan Hui

Nathan Hui has started 16 posts and replied 106 times.

Post: [Calc Review] Help me analyze this deal

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Mike Dymski:

Hey Nathan. Sorry for the delay on your PM. You've done a lot of great analysis here.

IMO, the purchase cap rate is too low (sub 5%). I know I am using a commercial valuation for a residential property but I don't have information on residential comps. Normally, when you raise rents $200/unit ($2,400/year) with $10,000/unit rehab, you get an ARV that is significantly higher than the price plus the rehab. That is not the case here because the price seems high.

Make sure that 3% appreciation is a valid assumption. Compounded over time, it has a big impact on profits...and some properties don't appreciate.

I personally can't make a profit with 1% properties with no value add, little or no appreciation, and 3rd party management.  Maybe this one has predictable appreciation...model has 3% in it.

Hope that helps.

Mike thanks for the input, almost every time you post I learn something valuable. I really appreciate your time. Purchase cap rate is a new concept to me. What exactly is purchase cap rate? 

My appreciation estimations are (honestly) almost completely arbitrary. How do you make reasonable estimations on appreciation so your actual return estimations are accurate. If the value of this property doesn't appreciate my annualized return will be massively different, I agree. 

Post: Why is it important to tenants whether or not you own the place?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

It seems like the majority of people are on the transparency train. I have been told in the case of house-hacking that you MUST have a “bad cop”. Can anyone with former house-hacking experience share about this topic?

Post: On a Downward Spiral-Need help and direction.

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

@Mark Gonzalez I think the priority is to fill the vacant unit. Unless your unit is completely uninhabitable I would save the cash to pay off debt and worry about your unit last. With two units of paying tenants that should significantly reduce your living expenses. I’m sure your utilities are kinda insane but you should still be paying less to live than if you were a renter or a SF home owner. Focus on trimming the fat in your personal finances, if you can. I know you said you were in a unique situation financially so I’m sure that has to be playing a part in this.

I know this must be challenging for you since the 30k in credit card debt is an absolute cash flow killer. I hope you are able to consolidate your debt, pay it off or maybe even refi in the future.

Post: What determines ARV for Multifamily Properties?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Josh Obregon:

@Jerry Hollifield is correct. It all boils down to the definitions of "residential" and "commercial" which lenders have defined for us investors. That being said, there are always exceptions. I have colleagues with close relationships to lenders that were able to treat a 4-plex as a "commercial" property. Properties 1-4 units are deemed "residential" and are valued based on comparables. Properties with 5+ units are deemed "commercial" and values are based on NOI. Why? No clue and really don't care. I'm sure a savvy BP member knows the justification behind this distinction.

Understanding those definitions, the ARV of your 4-plex would be valued based on comps in your market (other 4-unit properties in your market) since it is treated as residential property. Best advice I can give is present your business plan to 2-3 lenders and get their feedback on ARV. Depending on your strategy with this property it could still be a good deal. All in for $240K. Lets assume best case scenario rents bump to $3000/month, that's a $900/month increase or $10,800/year increase giving you a 25% ROI on your reno costs. You're above the 1% rule, get to take advantage of bonus depreciation (I recommend conducting a cost seg analysis), and you're positive cash flow. If you wanted to flip it sell the story - turnkey 4-plex, recently renovated cash flowing X amount per month.

Hope this answers your questions and gives you some exit strategies. BTW... if you find more 4 unit properties like this let me know! Where are you located?


Jerry is definitely right. Thanks for elaborating on the topic. I live in Rome, GA. I will send you a PM if another one pops up!

Post: Tenant Died, Family is Paying Rent...

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Mike B.:

would definitely consult an attorney as this is a very unique situation.  It's nice they're paying rent but they aren't the people on the original lease, so I would be curious if you could tell them to move everything out within 30 days (seems like a reasonable amount of time to collect belongings).  You could even offer to remove the remaining things they don't want in an effort to help move them along.  Would definitely seek legal advice to be on the safe side though 

Thanks for the input, this situation is definitely strange. Seems like there is potential for this to go well or horribly wrong with the right circumstances. 

Post: Tenant Died, Family is Paying Rent...

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34

Hey BP folks, 

I am under contract for a small multifamily I am planning on house hacking. While under contract we discovered one of the tenants has actual died recently and the family has been paying the rent while they decide what to do with the tenants belongings. This would be my first investment property. I have a complete lack of experience with this type of situation. 

The unit itself is trashed (expected). I intend to renovate the unit after the unit is vacated. 

What should I do in order to protect myself while going through this process? I don't even know what questions to ask and what things I need to do to insure I don't immediately get involved with a legal dilemma after closing. 

Nathan 

Post: Quadruplex

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Jon Lee:

Advice?

4,000sf Quadruplex built in 1986. Located in surbanban area with top schools and thriving town. Currently priced at $175k with roughly $15,000 in repairs and partial rehab.

Rental income currently $2200 monthly

Rental income after repairs and partial rehab $2450.00 monthly

  • Fully rehab additional $10k.

Potential monthly income $3,000-$3,200.

I am under contract for a similar deal. What did you end up doing?  

Post: What determines ARV for Multifamily Properties?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Jerry Hollifield:

@Nathan Hui. Are you asking why lenders treat 1-4 units as residential and 5+ units as commercial?

Im asking how to determine ARV on a quad. Your answer before was "ARV on a quad will be similar to SFR". In other words, the value of a quad will be based on comps in that market. If it is as simple as that then I already have my answer.

I ask this question because I have an opportunity to significantly raise the rent roll in a quad I am looking at but I do not want to put more cash into a property than it is worth. I really do not care why lenders differentiate between (1-4) and (5+). 

It seems logical that the value of a small multifamily property is proportional to its ability to produce rental income. I am new to this so I am trying to confirm whether or not this is the reality. If lender's rules are the key to this, then yes, please share. 

Post: What determines ARV for Multifamily Properties?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Jerry Hollifield:

@Nathan Hui any residential rental property with 4 or fewer units is considered “residential” and qualifies for a residential mortgage. Any residential rental property of 5 units or more is considered “commercial”, thus you must obtain a commercial mortgage.

So the way the property is acquired makes the difference? I understand that commercial rentals exist for the sole purpose of investment but quads are not like single family, to me. For example, the quad I am interested in is 4800sq ft, 8BR, 6BA. If that was compared to other SF it would be worth at least 500k in my area but its not. I am under contract for 200k. And I think that is a competitive price since the gross rental income is $2100. No investor would pay 300k for a quad that produces $2100, also nobody who has the money to buy a 300k home is going to buy a quad for their primary residence, unless they are house hacking but still.. that's a bad deal. 

I really do not see the logic on how the means of acquisition make the valuation different. My argument is quads should be valued the same way any other exclusive investment property is. Can you explain why not? 

Post: What determines ARV for Multifamily Properties?

Nathan HuiPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Rome, GA
  • Posts 107
  • Votes 34
Originally posted by @Jerry Hollifield:

@Nathan Hui In my experience, anything classified as commercial, value is determined by NOI. Typically that is 5+ units. With the 4-plex, the ARV should be similar to SFR.

Why wouldn't an investor look at a 5 unit the same as a 4 unit?