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All Forum Posts by: Ryan Moyer

Ryan Moyer has started 11 posts and replied 878 times.

Post: Airbnb partners with Mega Landlords, giving them 20% back!

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Paul Cionczyk:

Caught this article and found it to be an interesting approach by airbnb to capture more of the market by actually paying landlords for a portion of the short term rentals their tenants make, 20% back as the article mentioned. So the tenant signs a lease and has the right to short term rent the unit for a certain amount of days, all while increasing the money the landlord makes by getting a cut of the profits from Airbnb. Sam Zell's Equity Residential was mentioned as one of the multi-family landlords participating. Interesting approach?

Links here:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a...

https://therealdeal.com/2022/1...


 Sounds better than plain flat fee arbitrage. The owner should be benefiting from this as an investor after all.

 The owner already benefits from it.  If someone came to me with a good reputation and history of reviews and offered me over market rate (as most arbitrager's do) AND offered to take care of all non cap-ex maintenance items while having the home cleaned every week and available for me to go in between bookings any time I want (whereas a long term renter often disappears into the home for years and you don't see anything until two years later when it is destroyed) I would rush at the chance.

Arbitrage is a pretty sweet deal for landlords, so long as you're partnered with a trustworthy host.

Post: Tax advantages for STR/Airbnb owners

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @Himanshu Singh:
Quote from @Paul Sandhu:
Quote from @Himanshu Singh:
Quote from @Luke Carl:

I think you'll find the tax advantages are the same regardless of sole prop or llc on title. Management also won't make a difference if I'm understanding your question correctly.

But I'm not licensed expert! 


 Thank you for your response. 

Are you guys using personal banking accounts for expenses and collecting revenue for the STR or opening a separate bank account for it ?

Separate bank account in a separate bank from my personal account.  Every deposit is revenue.  Every check is an expense.  My credit card reader makes a deposit to this account.  I pay all the bills with checks from this account. It makes doing taxes easy.  There is no commingling of funds.


 Thank you !

And the separate bank account is under your personal name or business name ?

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is if you are buying the home under the LLC then the LLC will need to be on the bank account. If not, then no reason I can think of not to use your personal name.

My understanding (again, not a lawyer) is that LLC's often offer a lot less protection than people believe they do. On the flipside, they create a lot of complications in setup and lending (your loan options will be much worse as an LLC than an individual) so a lot of people don't find it to be worth the effort. If you've already bought the home using your personal name and are not using a commercial loan then it is probably too late to go the LLC route anyway. Again, I could be wrong on that.

Post: Tax advantages for STR/Airbnb owners

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @Luke Carl:

I think you'll find the tax advantages are the same regardless of sole prop or llc on title. Management also won't make a difference if I'm understanding your question correctly.

But I'm not licensed expert! 


I could be wrong (also not a licensed expert) but I think using a management company does make a difference as it would be difficult to prove material participation if a management company is the one doing all the work.

Just another reason to self manage!

Post: Warning for STR Pumpers

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @Carlos Ptriawan:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Leo R.:

It makes me laugh when I hear gurus (or people with no RE experience) talk about STR or LTR as "passive" or "easy".

Sure, it's "passive", until the tenant calls you at 2 am to tell you the finished basement is flooded, you discover the house is basically built on top of a subterranean river, and you spend the next 6 months excavating 30 tons of water-logged clay from under the house (by hand) to create an industrial-scale sump system (true story)..."passive", lol.

Any real investor knows this is a tough game that brings some hard knocks.


 there’s an “app” for that 😂 


hahahaha

first year is guaranteed rent LOL

I think this is also reason why all these new tech company collapse  , who the world need to buy car with carvana , buying home with bitcoin token and all abracadabraa lol


 To be fair, I bought/sold my last two cars with Carvana and it was WAY better than going into the dealership and spending 4 hours with some idiot salesman that knows less about the car than I do.  And technology could certainly in the future make the god-awful real estate closing process a lot more bearable.

Who needs the internet to listen to music, right?  We already have the radio.

Post: Direct Booking Websites

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @David Bergmann:
Quote from @Ryan O'Connor:
Quote from @David Bergmann:

We use Hostaway and most of our direct reservations are from repeat guests.  Hostaway will let you message via SMS, and we let guest know to book direct next time to save on the airbnb fees.  I don't think its worth it to try and compete on SEO with the channels like Airbnb & VRBO who have big marketing dollars to spend on Google.  

David, we also use Hostaway.  Did you use their direct booking engine?  Also, with the sms feature is that on a schedule or you’re manually sending the individual texts to previous guests through the platform?
It's a scheduled message to each guest the day of check out.  Yes, we use their booking engine on our website.  You can see how it works by going to our website heartwoodfurnishedhomes.com and hit "book now".

 Do you have them opt in to the texts some way?  I'm finishing up a direct booking site and I've got 2 years worth of guests I didn't go out of my way to get emails for, but I still have all their phone numbers from within Airbnb/VRBO.  Not sure on the legality of blasting them all a text with our new direct booking site.

Post: Anyone using online stores for convenience services/revenue?

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295

I did the intro call with them.  The software seems good.  It just seemed like too much extra work for a little extra profit.  I could see how it would make more sense if you're local and renting out a cheaper place where these upsells would represent a higher percentage of your revenue.  But didn't seem worth the extra effort to arrange some of these services remotely to turn a $4800 booking into a a $4820 booking. 

Post: is Joshua tree good place for both STR and LTR?

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @Kevin Kim:

Hi,

Today, I saw there are many listings in Joshua tree, Twentynine palms, yucca valley, etc.

I know real-estate market is slow. However if they do good STR business, then there is no reason for them to sell their house.

Can someone let me know if there is an issue for property in those area?

I guess it became red ocean(too many airbnb), and demand might be decreased, or permit issue?

Thank you. 


 Firstly, there are plenty of reasons why a lot of people would be selling properties even in a strong market.  Gatlinburg remains very strong, and you can find a ton of properties listed there.

Secondly, however, is that yes Joshua Tree does seem to be a bit oversaturated as much of its demand boost was as a temporary covid market (not all of it, but a lot), and I would imagine some people are trying to get out of that market now.  I don't actually own there, but that's the impression I've gotten.

Post: Warning for STR Pumpers

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295

It puts an egg on their faces, but I doubt any legal action will come of it.

Can someone sue Frank Thomas and Dough Flutie if "their lady doesn't like it too" when they take Neugenics?

Celebrities push all kinds of random crap they get paid to push.  A youtuber/influencer is essentially just another form of celebrity.  They all mentioned FTX etc as being paid sponsorsships, so I don't really see how that's any different than Steph Curry sketchily implying that Subway will make me lose weight or Rory McIlroy telling me the new Taylormade driver will add 25 yards to my drives.

Post: Have any of you lived through a full STR market cycle?

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @Bob Willis:

I think market saturation is the culprit here more than the economy. 


 Yes, despite the anecdotes ("my sister's brother's son's 3rd grade teacher said she canceled her vacation because of gas prices"), the data is clear on this and the data back up what you said.

Travel demand is still at record highs.  Travel spending is still at record highs.  Airbnb's earnings, Airdna's reports, etc.  All still at record highs.  But that growth just isn't matching the insane growth we've had in supply.  So even as demand stays high, supply is growing faster, and tipping the supply/demand balance towards supply, whereas it was previously tipped towards demand.

However, that's not to say we won't hit a point economically where demand crashes like in 2008.  Just that we're not there yet.  Maybe we won't get there in this cycle and this supply/demand imbalance (which will correct itself as people move out of the space when they see they aren't getting the hot returns people last year got) will be the worst of it.  Or maybe it's not even the beginning.

Meanwhile, Airbnb stock price is far from record highs. It’s down 50 percent, and so is vrbo last I checked. 

Which makes perfect sense with context.  Every techy growth stock is down massively.  Most more on the order of 90% than 50%.

ABNB's P/E ratio is what changed (as did the entire market's with the sentiment shift towards huge P/E ratios), not their earnings.

Their P/E ratio was 127 before, which is obviously insane and was going to adjust alongside all the other mega growth stocks.

That’s a good point. Most aren’t down 90 percent, but yeah I get it. 

Zoom - 86%

Shopify - 83%

Peleton - 95%

Facebook - 75%

Square - 82%

Roku - 90%

Upstart - 95%

Palantir - 78%

Alibaba - 80%

Paypal - 77%

Docusign - 85%

It's a bloodbath out there in that space.  ABNB has held up better than most since, unlike a lot of the others, ABNB's earnings have stayed strong.

It’s still vastly underperforming the Nasdaq. 



I mean, yeah, obviously.  Forgive my rant here (I'm a stock guy so I tend to ramble).  It's a growth stock in a high interest rate period designed to stunt growth.  It's not in the same bucket as Amazon or Apple, it's in the same bucket as stocks like the ones above.

It's all moot anyway.  The price of a stock is determined by a lot of things, including projected growth.  It's not that Airbnb's earnings have dropped, it's that everyone realized the covid growth was unsustainable and not a good predictor of future growth, so P/E ratios and predictions of future growth/earnings needed to be adjusted.

I work in the markets and honestly the covid rage was the dumbest thing I've ever seen.  Retail investors, whatever I get it, they were just buying hot stock tickers.  But there were legit business people out there thinking "hmmm Zoom grew by 70% this quarter when the government mandated that all office buildings had to close and forced everyone to use video conferencing.  If they can just keep that growth up for the next 10 years it will be a $10 Trillion company so lets buy this thing up to a 500 P/E ratio because those future earnings are a lock".  As if every quarter was going to have some new worldwide catastrophe that was going to force everyone to use Zoom.

Same story with Airbnb (and all the rest).  ABNB got a huge boost from pent up travel demand coming out of covid.  A bunch of crazy people assumed that growth was the new normal, and bought the thing up way higher than it should have been.

It's not that ABNB demand or earnings have dropped, it's just that it stopped growing as fast and people realized "hmmm, maybe travel demand isn't going to double every 4 months for the rest of our lives".  The fact that it's grown AT ALL from those elevated levels is pretty remarkable, really.

Put another way, Target will sell more stuff this quarter than they did last quarter, because the holidays are this quarter.  But people aren't dumb enough to think "wow Target sold 30% more stuff this quarter than last, that means the stock is way underpriced because if they sell 30% more than that next quarter, then 30% more than that next quarter, then 30% more than that next quarter, and so on for the next 10 years the stock will be worth 100x what it is now, so let's buy it all the way up to 50x the current price".

Obviously that would be insane, because Target selling 30% more stuff this quarter than last is obviously just because of temporary holiday demand and not indicative of them growing by 30% every quarter for the next 10 years.

But when covid came along, and created the same kind of temporary demand, those kind of insane projections are EXACTLY what everyone thought to themselves.  And they WAY overpriced the stocks because of it, and those prices came crashing down when people finally realized that growth was just essentially temporary holiday demand.  Even if the companies (like Airbnb) are still just chugging along with solid impressive growth, they're not doubling every 5 months like people foolishly predicted.  Travel demand is still at peak, it's just not setting new peaks as high and as fast as it was coming out of that pent up demand period.  But that doesn't mean it's gone down.  If/when it does actually go down, alongside this new supply glut, that's when the real fun begins.

Post: Have any of you lived through a full STR market cycle?

Ryan Moyer
Posted
  • Property Manager
  • Orlando Kissimmee, Davenport
  • Posts 893
  • Votes 1,295
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @John Carbone:
Quote from @Ryan Moyer:
Quote from @Bob Willis:

I think market saturation is the culprit here more than the economy. 


 Yes, despite the anecdotes ("my sister's brother's son's 3rd grade teacher said she canceled her vacation because of gas prices"), the data is clear on this and the data back up what you said.

Travel demand is still at record highs.  Travel spending is still at record highs.  Airbnb's earnings, Airdna's reports, etc.  All still at record highs.  But that growth just isn't matching the insane growth we've had in supply.  So even as demand stays high, supply is growing faster, and tipping the supply/demand balance towards supply, whereas it was previously tipped towards demand.

However, that's not to say we won't hit a point economically where demand crashes like in 2008.  Just that we're not there yet.  Maybe we won't get there in this cycle and this supply/demand imbalance (which will correct itself as people move out of the space when they see they aren't getting the hot returns people last year got) will be the worst of it.  Or maybe it's not even the beginning.

Meanwhile, Airbnb stock price is far from record highs. It’s down 50 percent, and so is vrbo last I checked. 

Which makes perfect sense with context.  Every techy growth stock is down massively.  Most more on the order of 90% than 50%.

ABNB's P/E ratio is what changed (as did the entire market's with the sentiment shift towards huge P/E ratios), not their earnings.

Their P/E ratio was 127 before, which is obviously insane and was going to adjust alongside all the other mega growth stocks.

That’s a good point. Most aren’t down 90 percent, but yeah I get it. 

Zoom - 86%

Shopify - 83%

Peleton - 95%

Facebook - 75%

Square - 82%

Roku - 90%

Upstart - 95%

Palantir - 78%

Alibaba - 80%

Paypal - 77%

Docusign - 85%

It's a bloodbath out there in that space.  ABNB has held up better than most since, unlike a lot of the others, ABNB's earnings have stayed strong.