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All Forum Posts by: Luka Jozic

Luka Jozic has started 25 posts and replied 110 times.

Post: Any successful BRRR in OHio?

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Bob Stevens:

UMM YESS, for the last 10 years. Now sure the high cash flow of 30% nets have decreased as pricing has doubled, tripled (all in 35- 40k, now, 100k-140k) and much more so your assumption is incorrect. (Cleveland markets) but sill great ROI. I just closed on a 3 br all in will be 65k ( pp 40k reno 25k) YES all in, Rent will be 1600. value is about 125k. Closing today on a duplex, all in 90k, rents 900/900, value about 130k This is my norm. I can provide 100s of examples.

BTW look how incorrect you were, see this is what happens when people sit on the internet and THINK they are " learning" 

44109 (median home price went from roughly 50k to 125k in 8 years)

https://www.zillow.com/home-values/77009/cleveland-oh-44109/

44102 (median home price went from roughly 30k to 120k in 8 years)

https://www.zillow.com/home-values/77002/cleveland-oh-44102/

44106 (median home price went from roughly 100k to 200k in 8 years)

https://www.zillow.com/home-values/77006/cleveland-oh-44106/

All the best


Thats great but how has the income changed over the past 8 year? Not too much. Cleveland is still one of the poorest cities in America with a median income of around $37K per household! How are they supposed to pay $1600/mo in rent? You don't need to be a genius to see how that is an issue. It sounds like you've made it work well in Cleveland, but for rookies I think its better to go elsewhere. 

Post: Section 8 BRRRR in Cleveland Metro

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64

Id say after 2 years of investing in Cleveland, I wouldn't recommend it. Better go somewhere where people actually want to live and not everybody is broke. It has one of the highest poverty rates in the country, declining population, and not much going for it. It looks good on paper, but its not in reality. A higher quality property in a better neighborhood in a better city is gonna outperform any Cleveland property in the long run. We just get to focused on cashflow and can't see it. I've been through several property managers and properties in various areas and its always the same ****, late or no rent, expensive turnovers, and just lots of headaches..

Post: Does bi-weekly payments make sense in a cash-flow market?

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

for me I like to square off what payments I do have these days.

So like on my houses mortgage for example  if the payment was 2800 i am going to send in 3k a month and forget about trying to do it twice a week etc.

and do that on all mortgages.. I find couple hundo on a mortgage we just piddle that money away any way might as well do some good with it..

I would also look at snowballing one property at a time.. get one paid off then the next then the next.. paid off RE is where you want to be if you really plan on using this stuff for retirement cash flow..


 For me it is. Im buying these properties so that in several years from now, they can provide solid cash flow that I can live off of. This is my substitute for 401K. So yeah the sooner they're paid off the sooner they will cashflow better, and I'd rather have that happen in 21 years rather than 30 so I think it makes sense. 

Post: Does bi-weekly payments make sense in a cash-flow market?

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64

I understand that doing bi-weekly simply means you are doing 13 mortgage payments a year as opposed to 12. So you get one payment each year that goes straight to principal. I've read other threads on the topic and it seems like the obvious answer is that it depends, as doing bi-weekly pays off your mortgage faster but means less available cash for other investments.

Say we have a typical Cleveland property worth around 150K, assume the monthly PIMI is $1000 and that annual cashflow is $5000. According to my lender, if I do bi-weekly I would pay off the mortgage in 21 years as opposed to 30, shaving off 9 years. That means in 21 years I will have a fully paid off property, and can now cash out refi and buy X more properties. However, by doing so, I'll be paying $1000 extra each year towards my mortgage, reducing my cashflow to $4000/year. So after 21 years I will have either:
1. $21K extra to invest (not even enough for 1 down payment really) if I do monthly.
2. A fully paid off property which now should be worth at least $300K with appreciation, I can access 75% of that with a cash out refi so roughly $225K - refi costs.

To me, its a no brainer to do bi-weekly IF you plan to keep the house for that long AND you do not plan to refinance (rate or cash out). So the follow up question is, does it make sense to keep a property for that long and not dig into its equity for 21 years? What are your thoughts on this?

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Michael P.:
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Michael P.:

Brooo I told you that toledo one was a D area


 Irrelevant what area it is, Its ALL about price, screening and doing the reno correctly 

Lets "agree to disagree". I think investing out of state in a D area is a bad idea. C area also a bad idea but maybe borderline if bought at a large discount. B area is the best for investing out of state.


 100% irrelevant IF you have a team. I live OOS and have been doing deals in the Cleveland markets for many years. Closing on another this week. I have props that many would call the hood, but I do not worry. 


 So how do you get stable properties in "the hood"? What is it that your team does? I mean yes you do good rehabs of course. But how do you get solid tenants in there? Do you only do S8 or do you screen them in a specific way? What's the magic formula Bob?

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @Luka Jozic:
Quote from @Scott Bowen:

@Luka Jozic BRRRR is still a good strategy - don't let anyone tell you otherwise. But gone are the days where you can expect to pull all your money out of the deal and still cash flow $200+ a month. I aim for 10-20% CoC on BRRRR deals.

Cleveland wouldn't be my market of choice given how old most of the houses are, but I know a lot of investors who have success there, so it's definitely viable. For C/C- neighborhoods you usually need to scale to 10+ doors; it's a numbers game. 

Yeah my goal is around 30% but its hard to achieve, especially using a hard money loan. If I could start finding off market deals myself I think it could work, usually the assignment fee from wholesalers is the difference between pulling all your money out and not. 


You're welcome on the lists mate hehe 👍 (No, not sending to anybody else as Luka has Balkan heritage I'm assuming and so do I so we look after each other haha).

Wholesalers are a disaster and all of your equity/profit will go to them.

I suggest cold calling yourself, learn/practice your pitch and then elevate and delegate.

My folks have been doing just acquisitions for many years now but all good things take time.

All the best mate

Greatly appreciate it man and yeah I do. Yeah that sounds like a good plan! Haven't bought anything from wholesalers as their deals are more expensive than the MLS lol..

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Michael P.:

Its not to late to do sewer inspection on the other properties if they were never done. Prevent sewage leaking and destabilizing the foundation. Blow in a resin-coated lining through the old pipe for $150 per linear foot. Better than 35k repair for sinking foundation.


 Yeah Im already on it and also added insurance trough Cleveland water for like $10 a month per property. 

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Scott Bowen:

@Luka Jozic BRRRR is still a good strategy - don't let anyone tell you otherwise. But gone are the days where you can expect to pull all your money out of the deal and still cash flow $200+ a month. I aim for 10-20% CoC on BRRRR deals.

Cleveland wouldn't be my market of choice given how old most of the houses are, but I know a lot of investors who have success there, so it's definitely viable. For C/C- neighborhoods you usually need to scale to 10+ doors; it's a numbers game. 

Yeah my goal is around 30% but its hard to achieve, especially using a hard money loan. If I could start finding off market deals myself I think it could work, usually the assignment fee from wholesalers is the difference between pulling all your money out and not. 

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Jim K.:

Before the fur starts flying, can I at least make one simple statement about this situation? To live multiple states away and run a string of successful C-class long-distance BRRRRs anywhere in the Rust Belt is practically impossible. I think the OP is lucky not to have experienced catastrophic failure yet. This was taking on suicidal risk to begin with, and it's just going to get worse. I'm actuallu surprised and I'm sure there are volumes left unspoken here by the OP about how hard it must have been to make it this far. I only hope my own posts recounting what my hyperlocal experiences have been like here in Pittsburgh, the self-styled "Paris of Appalachia," do not in any way encourage people to follow the OP's lead. There's an omnipresent, ubiquitous brutality to life in general and running rental real estate in  prticular here that just doesn't translate well into metrics and data.


 Don't agree one bit with that statement and Im getting a feeling that most people in this thread are inflating the struggles I've been facing. First of all I said Im negative on most, not all. The ones Im negative on, two of them weren't even BRRRRs, I was negative because my old PM was robbing me and on the other cause I got greedy and agreed on unqualified tenants at higher than market rent that I had to evict after 3 months. The two BRRRRs that are negative is one because of the sewer (could and should have done a sewer inspection) and the other one is negative cause my old PM couldn't find a tenant for the second unit in over 3 months (my new PM filled it in 1 week and no issues ever since).

Would it have been better if I was there? Absolutely. Has my contractors and my old PM ripped me off on certain things that I can't verify due to being OOS, 100%. But thats part of the being OOS and as I gain more experience and I better team I can minimize that. I definitely don't think its gonna get worse from here I think the complete opposite. Yes I was expecting cash flow to be more stable from the beginning but I guess it takes a little bit of time. I haven't left more than 5-15K in ANY on my properties and have created a lot of equity in all of them except Toledo. And in terms of appreciation, according to Zillow data over a 8 year span, its been about the same for almost every market. 

Post: Experience of OOS investing in Cleveland after 1.5 years.

Luka JozicPosted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Posts 111
  • Votes 64
Quote from @Engelo Rumora:
Quote from @Chris Clothier:

@Luka Jozic

I was on a podcast recently and talked a little about what you are experiencing. I read this as someone using a short-term lens to focus on a long-term issue. In your thread, you are worried about short-term KPIs like monthly cash flow, yet you purchased the properties to follow the BRRRR method.

The social side of Biggerpockets, like newsletters, blogs, and SM sites, is part of the problem.  Cash flow is constantly promoted and pushed, and often, the personalities lack long-term experience, so they can't talk about the best reasons we should be investing.  

You purchased six properties, and we have to assume, based on your post, that you purchased and renovated them for below a current market value.  If done correctly, you can refinance most, if not all, of your initial funds back out of the properties.  You can eventually refinance all or most of your funds if not done correctly.  Your properties have needed constant work, making you negative for the first year.  In other words, your renters have covered a majority of your costs of ownership this year, including covering your debt, and you have to put some additional money in, which raises your cost basis. However, it doesn't read like that has been substantial.  

This is investment real estate.  You have to expect costs, headaches, and surprises.  Those things can and will hurt your monthly KPIs occasionally and sometimes for long periods.  However, over time, if a renter is covering a majority of your cost of ownership and even allowing you to get the added benefit of putting money away into a rainy day fund, you are winning the real estate game.  

You are controlling significant assets with little money and using the revenue they generate to pay for them.  Over the next 7-10 years, these properties will fluctuate up and down in value based on the current economy; however, real estate will move up and to the right over time.  At the same time, someone else reduces your debt, and you get to use the tax code to improve your tax situation legally.  

My advice is to be wise but continue.  Be smart and invest wisely, constantly learning from each transition.  Perhaps you do things differently with your subsequent purchase or your next management company.  Whatever you do, don't focus on the monthly KPIs.  You bought long-term rentals, so be a long-term investor.  You did it passively, so don't expect substantial short-term returns.  Be a long-term investor focusing on controlling as many assets as possible most safely.  I tip my hat to you because you are way ahead of many of your peers.  The ability to take action can be both brave and foolish.  You sound like the brave side of the coin in that you did due diligence and respected the process.  You also took quick action when things were not going as expected.  From what I read, I think you are on track for success.  You have to allow time to do its job.  Time is the #1 ingredient in a long-term investor's success.  Their success depends on how much initial action they take to build their portfolio.


When Chris posts, everyone should read.

I know he doesn't like to be called the "Godfather" so I will just say he is the "Turnkey Stud" haha

100% agreed with this mate:

"I tip my hat to you because you are way ahead of many of your peers. The ability to take action can be both brave and foolish. You sound like the brave side of the coin in that you did due diligence and respected the process. You also took quick action when things were not going as expected. From what I read, I think you are on track for success. You have to allow time to do its job. Time is the #1 ingredient in a long-term investor's success. Their success depends on how much initial action they take to build their portfolio."


Just to add to Chris's post.

Time is the best friend of a good decision and the worst enemy of a bad decision.

Keep endeavoring to make good decisions and ask questions on the forum like you did if in doubt.

You will have a few bum jackers like myself that will happily share an opinion on the situation.

Your job is to syphon through all those opinions and as they should mold your decision making for the better 🙏

Appreciate it to both of you! Yeah right now Im just gonna hold off for a little and stabilize, then I'll make a call if I will continue in Cleveland or maybe try here in Tampa. Tampa is great in the sense that the tenant quality is typically very high and appreciation as well, but finding something that would even break even will be very hard. Rent by room is an option that many people do here but even then it's not easy, and several randoms living under the same roof calls for its own problems and likely a lot more turnovers, so I'll see. I've also considered bigger multifamily 5+ units but need to research it more. Normal residential BRRRR just seems very difficult right now, but I also don't wanna put 25% down on every property I buy.

And to answer someone that asked about ARV, yes I do create a big chunk of equity in my BRRRR properties so at least I have that.