All Forum Posts by: Will Sifert

@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus,  and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space. 

That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.

If you are not willing to  risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.

@Franklyn Douglas III I have invested in tax liens in the past. Here is what is good: in Colorado they pay 9 points above the current US Federal Discount Rate (which is 5.5% right now) - so that would be an interest rate of 14%+. Here is what is bad: in most cases, when people realize their property has been sold in a tax lien sale they redeem (pay their property taxes) - so you may only earn that rate for a matter of a few months. Here is what is good: the county handles all the necessary paperwork and sends you a check. They also give you the option to buy the lien for subsequent years so that you stay in first priority (the whole process takes 3 years before the property is forfieted). Here is what is bad: only about 1% of properties actually end up in the hands of the lienholder. 99% redeem the property at some point. 

Hi all! My first post :) 

I'm new to REI and followed the shiny into buying ($390) and attending a goofy 3-day workshop (currently sitting in Day 2 in Danvers, MA) on tax lien buying by TAX LIEN WEALTH BUILDERS, previously known as UNITED TAX LIENS, founded by Jay Drexel, who also built MarketPlacePro.

It's been almost useless, a giant patronizing waste of time (as @John Underwood and @Ned Carey has driven home - don't pay for education you could obtain more quickly and thoroughly on the googs or through networking), but an interesting exercise in appreciating their polished presentations, sales strategies, and trying to understand what these people's actual business model is by reading between the lines of all the shiny idealized and exaggerated examples of rapid wealth generation. I know they are funneling people into their $35k "Diamond Package" coaching/class/blah blah combo, but I was able to ascertain from my "strategist" Rob that this company's inner circle does in fact buy Tax liens/deeds. However, according to him, they have some magic ethereal list of certificates that are about to enter forclosure that they purchase from banks/hedge funds, as the banks/funds do not want to own them once they foreclose because it tips the balance sheet and would be considered a negative asset and would be too much work to liquidate. 

Does this make sense at all? He claims he's never been asked about the details of how TLWB acquires this packages of pre-foreclosure certificates, or the agreement they have with the bank/funds, but that they do in fact have monthly packages or certificates up for sale within the group that are purchased from the bank/funds in bulk. The idea being then that the insiders can purchase these certificates, realize the reinstated high interest rate or acquire the property through foreclosure much faster (within days to a month). He says he uses this company's resources pretty exclusively as a property acquisition tool.

So I wonder, if these pre-foreclosure certificates are available in bulk packages from banks/funds, what are they called? Could anyone with enough capital make agreements with the banks/funds to get a rolling offering of these? Does any of this seem real, or is my "strategist" full of bologna and just covering for the slime-ball objective of funnelling rich old ladies life savings or desperate people into taking out giant credit lines (through their partner finance company - Copper Rock Financials) so they can afford the $35k package. I imagine if 10 of the 35-40 people in this room do that, clearing $350k on the weekend is pretty decent. They seemingly host these events every weekend.

Thanks!

Jacob 

@Will Sifert  - Thanks for the wealth of info you provide here. I recently purchased a tax lien certificate in BR and I have been wondering about this. A few additional questions regarding this topic: 

1) Given that it’s optional in Louisiana for a tax lien investor to notify the property owner, what are the pros and cons of choosing to do so? 

2) In the event that the “owner” has been deceased for several years (10+), is the parish going to notify potential relatives/heirs at the start of the redemption period?

3) In the event that the “owner” has been deceased for several years (10+), should the tax lien investor reach out to potential relatives/heirs at the start of the redemption period or is that something to deal with 3 years down the road if nobody redeems?

Interested in learning more about the space, considering getting into it myself.
What kind of software do you use to find tax liens / deeds / deals? How much of a headache is it to find these deals and execute, and what processes do you use to solve these headaches? How competitive are the auctions?
Any advice / knowledge here for a noob would be great. Thanks!

I dont have any intention of ever selling (although I know things can change). The problem I face is that I need the quiet title action before my Dad and Uncle can even sell it to me, so in effect they have to do the quiet title action. Of course I can just "do it" acting on their behalf but its a risk I dont want them to have to assume. My position is that if something happend and the previous owners were able to reclaim it while Dad and Uncle are still holding it (unlikely I know but devastating if it did happen) I would assume the loss and find a way to repay them, but I dont want it to come to that. Also to clarify, I'm not worried about attorney fees they are negliglbe at this point, my main concern is the risk of the previous owners successfully contesting a quiet title action and us losing the property. If I understand you correctly the only way that would happen is if the IRS did something procedurally wrong durring the sale. 

To the point of negotiating with previous owners, my assumption is that in order to avoid quiet title action I would need them to sign a quitclaim deed. In this case the long time owner is in his late 70s/early 80s, him and his son are both named on the IRS liens that were held agains the property. The father and son towards the end established a trust and named a third, non-relative man as the trustee. Given these three are all named in the abstract at the courthouse in one way or another would that mean I would need a quitclaim from all three? I know that is probably a question for an attorney but just curiuos if anyone has done it in this type of situation before.

Weighing in for everybody's benefit reading this. @Roy Oliphant is right with his answer. I called Brittany (who is a customer of mine already) and explained it all to her. But, I didn't want to slight the people reading this by not providing answer. Thanks, Roy, for the shout out, by the way.

One recent wrinkle in Alabama. We are running into a large number of title insurance companies refusing to issue title insurance even with a final and non-appealable quiet title order. Non-appealable means enough time has passed after the court's order that any appeal rights have expired.

The issue with the title companies vs. investors is a change in the statutes several years ago. They now say that if someone wants to redeem, they need to do it within 3 years of when the investor was entitled to possession, or lose those redemption rights forever. 

The investor is entitled to possession when it gets a tax certificate. So, shortly after the tax deed issues, as long as the investor is in possession and has been for some period of time, the investor can quiet title.  The rules about quieting title say you MUST be in possession first. They don't say how long.  In a case down in Mobile County, the investor took possession in the morning and filed quiet title in the afternoon and the court said that was too short. But, no court has ever expanded on that.

Despite the law change, and despite a lawful order from a court quieting title, the title insurance companies are saying you can't quiet title until you've had a tax deed for at least three years. They say the judge is wrong if he gives a quiet title order and it's been less than three years after the tax deed. 

That is INSANE.  If the judge was wrong, the former owner could appeal. If he did not appeal, then the judge is legally right as between the parties to the lawsuit, and nobody can ever say he was wrong. In other words, the judge is allowed to be wrong but everybody has to treat it as if he is right for purposes of that particular lawsuit and that particular property, because nobody appealed. The former owner has no redemption rights. There are  no claims against the property. There is no reason to refuse to issue title insurance. Yet, the companies continue to balk.  

I'm working on a solution, but I'm not there yet. Roy, call me if you want to discuss.

I am participating in an Upset sale and wanted to conduct a title search for some 20 - 25 properties. Does anyone know a title company that provides a bulk deal to search? I appreciate any reference. I also found propertyscout.io, but I am unsure if the data is accurate. As the tax sale is upset, I wanted to consider all liens on properties to price my bid.