All Forum Posts by: Will Sifert

In Louisiana, after the redemptive period has expired, we file a suit to confirm the tax sale and quiet title. Once it is all said and done we receive a judgement, which is equivalent to a deed for other states. Everyone named in the suit loses their ownership interest in the property.

I have done this 20+ times but this is the first time the previous owner had an IRS tax lien recorded against them. I was going to have the IRS named in the suit and have them notified through certified mail.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this?

I am assuming they will sign for the certified mail, someone at a front desk etc. If they do not respond I assume I would receive a judgement against them like all other parties with an ownership interest. I am not aware of any law or anything that prevents you from including the IRS in a lawsuit.

The way it works in Louisiana, they would have 6 months to file a suit to annual the tax sale. In which case they would have to pay me back all of the back taxes and interest. All they would accomplish by doing this would be to prevent the original owner from losing the property so they could still have their lien enforced against it. I seriously doubt they would chose to go that route.

The IRS lien was recorded against the owner of the property in 2016.  I could also wait 3 more years for the lien to prescribe, assuming its not reinscribed. 

I just want to make sure I am not missing anything and if anyone else has gone through a similar situation. I know when you are buying property that has an IRS Tax lien against it, the proceeds of the sale goes to the IRS. But this is different with tax liens as the property isn't being purchased from  the original owner. 

Definitely consult with a local attorney.  
Generally speaking, the date you take ownership, (judgment, issued a deed, foreclosure, etc... different from state to state) that is the date that matters. If you properly notified the owner prior to that date and then they died after you took ownership, then you do not have to deal with their heirs. If they died before the date you took ownership, then yes you would have to deal with their heirs. You need to determine a good time line.
Lack of proper notice can be a big issue, a local attorney can let you know exactly where you stand.

@William Smith

Where did you see that? You may send notice but it’s not required. However the parish is required to send post tax sale notice shortly after the tax sale and before the redemption period expires.

2022 Louisiana Laws

Revised Statutes

Title 47 - Revenue and Taxation

§47:2156. Post-sale notice

Universal Citation: LA Rev Stat § 47:2156 (2022)

RS 47:2156 - Post-sale notice

A. Within the applicable redemptive period, the tax sale purchaser may send a written notice to any or all tax sale parties notifying the parties of the sale. The notice shall provide full and accurate information necessary to contact the tax sale purchaser, including the name, physical address, and telephone number of the purchaser. It shall be accompanied by a copy of the tax sale certificate received by the tax sale purchaser under the provisions of this Part and copies of the documents that the purchaser received with that sale. The notice shall inform the tax sale parties that the failure to redeem the property prior to the expiration of the applicable redemptive period will terminate the right to redeem the property, and the purchaser will have the right to seek confirmation of the tax title and take actual possession of the property. The notice shall be sufficient if it is in the form set forth in Subsection B of this Section.

B.(1)(a) For each property for which tax sale title was sold at tax sale to a tax sale purchaser, each collector shall within thirty days of the filing of the tax sale certificate, or as soon as practical thereafter, provide written notice to the following persons that tax sale title to the property has been sold at tax sale. The notice shall be sent by postage prepaid United States mail to each tax notice party and each tax sale party whose interest would be shown on a thirty-year mortgage certificate in the name of the tax debtor and whose interest was filed prior to the filing of the tax sale certificate.

(b) For each property which tax sale title was sold at tax sale to a tax sale purchaser, the tax collector shall within ninety days of the expiration of the redemptive period provide written notice to each tax notice party that tax sale title to the property has been sold at tax sale. The notice shall be sent by first class mail. The notice shall be sufficient if it is in the form set forth in Paragraph (2) of this Subsection.

@Eliott Elias

You mean “clouded”? Never heard the expression “fogged” before.

I’m most cases, most liens are removed. Varies from state to state and the type of lien.

@Chase Waxman

Tax liens were first explained to me over 15 years ago as, you either get the property or you get your money back plus interest. If it was only so easy lol.

My very first tax sale, very first tax lien, I lost over 2k dollars. I almost quit. Thank god I did not. I bought an improvement only (camp) the company that owned the land was a large timber company. The camp owner had a long term lease that expired and the land owner wasn’t renewing leases in this area. I was told if you want the camp come get it and move it.

There are 100s of ways you can lose money buying tax liens. It’s a great investment that most people don’t know about but you have to educate yourself or it will cost you a lot of money. Also, each state is very different.

@Sam Bagwell would love to hear how you have been doing.

@Jonathan Faltot

Unfortunately ( or fortunately however you look at it) there is not a lot of tax lien investors with lots of experience willing to share any information. There are the large hedge funds that buy the majority of liens across the county. Then there is a small segment of people like myself who have been buying liens for several years and are successful at it and knowledgeable, AND willing to help others. There is always a lot of first timers, small investors who aren’t consistent buyers or who stop after a period of time. They never really figure it out in depth or get a lot of first hand experience.

I am active on FB tax lien groups and here on BP and I can count on two hands how many people I have met or chatted with there like myself and willing to share info. It’s such a small segment of buyers and most are very guarded and don’t want to talk about it much less help people.

I am the only person I have ever come across willing to give any significant information about how Louisiana works. Off hand I can only think of one person in each of the following states Texas, Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Maryland, Arizona that I would consider experts and willing to help that will answer questions. Before I started buying tax liens in Colorado for the first time I tired and tried to find someone experienced there and couldn’t find anyone. I am still trying to find anyone experienced in Montana. It’s so hard to find people in a particular state that are not only experienced and successful but willing to share info.

Quote from @Dan Mahoney:

@Tommy Davis As always, I am not a lawyer and I can't offer you legal advice.  If you closed with an attorney, the property was transferred via warranty deed, and you purchased title insurance, the unpaid taxes (County and City) from before the date of the tax sale were probably stripped from the property via a quiet title action.  It's also possible someone made a mistake and forgot to deal with the City taxes.  If you could track down the Final Order from the quiet title action (assuming there was one), you could get a more definitive answer to your question.

 Dan, great info. Are you still buying tax deeds in GA and what changes if any have you noticed over the last 6-7 years ? 

@Jonathan Faltot

You mentioned having an attorney involved. You will be hard pressed to find better legal advice here than what your local attorney can give you. And if your local attorney isn’t sure you might want to start looking for a new one. Make sure they have lots of experience in tax sale cases. Attorneys are like doctors, most specialize in one area and have no experience/ clue about the others.

The best thing you can do in this situation is find the most experienced local attorney and let him handle it.

As others have mentioned state law will cover this situation for the most part. You are not the first to go through this in PA. It also varies greatly from state to state so to even get good advice here you would need someone with experience in PA.

Hire a good local attorney, be patient and follow what they say.

Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

@Will Sifert

I only know about Texas and maybe 1% of what you guys post on about 10 other states.  Never even heard of anyone speak or post about Montana.

Found these two sources that seem to provide decent info....looks like tax lien state for 3 years, then potentially can apply for deed.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-enc...

https://www.yellowstonecountym...

https://leg.mt.gov/content/Com...

I've read the state statutes. The cool thing is every state has laws on how they hand tax sales. It was just a little confusing. From what I could gather, you are responsible for sending notice to the property owner BEFORE the tax sale.  So all the properties you want to bid on, you have to send certified mail before the tax sale to the owner. Many of which may redeem last minute so it's wasted time and money and then whos to say you even win any of the ones that do go to tax sale. From my understanding, if you haven't sent notice to the owner then you can not bid on that property. I believe they are all in person and I have yet to come across someone who has attended one of the tax sales there.