TaxSaleSupport Coaching / Shade Ferre & Stephen Swenson's Class
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Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
3y@Sean Lemon
If you are going to pay $25k+ for any mentorship you will want to have atleast $250k to invest - and that assumes the training gives you what you need (doubtful) to be successful.
Atleast with $250k you could recoup the investment in the training
Those who spend $25k and only have $30-$50k overall will never recoup that money and would be better investing it in a syndication.
7e investments53 Reviews
32 Replies
- 4yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Do not pay for information that is readily available on here.
We can collectively tell you anything you need to know, but read through past posts firsts then ask any remaining questions you have.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes4y
@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus, and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space.
That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.
If you are not willing to risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votesthe other thing is tax liens ( compared to tax sale) vary so much from jurisdiction .. so if its just general information rarely will it hone in on how you are do do it at your home drome. I went to one presentation years ago but it was specific to Tax Liens in AZ.. so if your going to buy in AZ it was probably OK to spend a few bucks on that course. But if its just general information Kind of like the how to wholesale guru's your probably not going to get the in depth detail you need to work in the area you live in..
Quote from @Ned Carey:
@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus, and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space.
That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.
If you are not willing to risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.
- Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes4y
@Nicole H. Not sure about them. I have heard about them years ago. You might watch a couple of their youtube videos and see what you think.
One thing I would say is that from what I see, even on a great site like Bigger Pockets with many tax lien/deed experts on here, is most of us don't know a lot about other states...or at the most 2-3 states. I've been to the first free class of a few of the travelling gurus...and they were frankly full of BS and at least one just flat out lied about Texas. It might teach you the very basics of the concepts but I think you can also read a book like 16% solution very cheaply and get the same basic information.
If there is someone local in your area teaching, that is more specific on the local aspects that might be worth attending. I know there are a couple of people in Texas, one in Ohio, and one in Florida that seem like they have decent training that is not crazy expensive.
- Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes4y
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
the other thing is tax liens ( compared to tax sale) vary so much from jurisdiction .. so if its just general information rarely will it hone in on how you are do do it at your home drome. I went to one presentation years ago but it was specific to Tax Liens in AZ.. so if your going to buy in AZ it was probably OK to spend a few bucks on that course. But if its just general information Kind of like the how to wholesale guru's your probably not going to get the in depth detail you need to work in the area you live in..Quote from @Ned Carey:
@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus, and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space.
That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.
If you are not willing to risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.
Something else to add, most of us who have been buying tax liens for years and are successful with it are mainly buying in our home state, at in person auctions. The gurus and national programs sell on hype but not reality. They throw out the 36% etc etc but reality is they never going to make that. The new people are being pushed to online auctions. Either they don’t live in a tax lien state or they are taught how they can invest anytime of the year in multiple states “from their home”.
I do great in my state, in person auction but lately looking to expand and have been trying online auctions in other states. The bidding is flat out stupid. If it’s a premium bidding state (no refund) the premium bids exceed what you can possible make in interest. If it’s a bid down the interest rate every single decent property (and even some bad) get bid down to 0%. If it is bid down % of ownership it goes down to 1%.
Of course the people selling classes and the gurus won’t tell you this ahead of time. They just throw out the 18%! 36%! Yeah maybe if no one else was bidding! Thanks! I live in NYC and but was particularly interested in the concept of buying OTC because there is no bidding. I've heard some day that OTC is mostly junk but I'm not sure where to begin even looking to try making the determination for myself.
- Yeah it's just the upsell I am questioning.
Quote from @Ned Carey:
@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus, and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space.
That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.
If you are not willing to risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes4y
Yes OTC usually is mostly junk. But sometimes there is gold hidden in the junk. You just have to be prepared to do a lot of research to find those gold nuggets.
Those gold nuggets may not look like shiny gold. They may need a lot of polishing which is why they got overlooked in the first place.
One reason I know Baltimore city so well is driving by and evaluating a ton of properties from the leftover list.
I have never heard of TaxSaleSupport Coaching / Shade Ferre & Stephen Swenson's Class before but I exclusively do tax sales and I agree with what has been said already here.
I would just add the following:
I think one can learn the basics of tax Deeds by reading a book or taking a seminar but to make real money you have to invest in tax Deeds and not just in Tax Liens. With Tax deeds, you actually buy the property; with tax liens, you are buying the tax debt with varied chances (mostly very low) of actually getting the property.
In order to make money with Tax Deeds, you have to be able to evaluate a property by just looking at it from the outside and have to be able to estimate repair costs without setting a foot in the property. For vacant residential land, you have to figure out if the lot is buildable (in some cases this is, literally, impossible) . Those are learnable skills but most people would agree that it takes years of practice to acquire them.
We participate at tax sales all the time and our serious competitors are the General contractors that are looking for a house to flip, or Fund Investors like us. The gurus never tell you that you will run into serious competition that are likely to outbid everybody else.
- Real Estate Broker · Coppell, TX · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 4k+ votes4y
@Nicole H. As other such as @Ned Carey have said you have to be super careful with OTC.
Depends on where you buy as to say there is no competition. Sometimes there is, sometimes there is not. Here in Texas in some places they'll get recycled to the next auction....we call those resales....could be at the same original minimum bid, or could be at a new reduced price. Every county is different. Some counties allow you to make offers, some don't. Occasionally places like City of Fort Worth will offer 100s of properties by sealed bid, so there can be competition or you could be the only bidder, you just don't know until the bids get opened.
I would say for the most part OTC is junk. As Ned says you can get lucky, and every now and then you can find a gem.....but you need to know your market very very very well. You might need to shift thru 1000 properties to find 1 that is good. You also need to have a plan for that property. I am at normally two auctions a month....most have plenty of bidders there that can buy multiple properties if they are available....mostly local people that know what they can turn, what they can use, and what is a waste of time. There are people bidding with different strategies...there are neighbors there bidding....so I would say most of the time if something doesn't sell, there is a reason....a good reason...or even a great reason....used to be a gas station there, used to be a dry cleaner there, plenty of times I see there is no water and will not be water any time in the future, all kinds of reasons that you can't always look up on a website. I know one parcel not far from my home that is zoned commercial....tons of successful businesses around it and very expensive commercial properties around it...always generates lots of interest...UNTILLLLLLL you find out the city wants a six inch water line to the property because todays building requirements require sprinkler systems in new built commercial buildings, you will have to pay for that, and no way to get it in without crossing other peoples properties who wont agree to you tearing up their parking lots or a week and disrupting their business. So this very nice lot sits vacant for years and years and years and basically can't be developed. Almost impossible to know that when you see it on the OTC list....looks like a deal....looks like a steal...but you're probably buying a liability vs an asset when you have to pay taxes, have to pay to keep it mowed, probably should keep liability insurance on it...
That's why it is OTC....none of the locals want it....but hey.....there is always someone from far away that's been to a seminar....or read a book and ready to get rich buying OTC.
Again I won't say there is not money to be made with OTC, but be very very careful. KNOW what you're buying. KNOW who you are going to sell it to. GO SEE every single property you buy in person. Google maps and google street view are your friends for eliminating property, but they are not your friends on buying property.
- 4yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Ed Tamayo:
I have never heard of TaxSaleSupport Coaching / Shade Ferre & Stephen Swenson's Class before but I exclusively do tax sales and I agree with what has been said already here.
I would just add the following:
I think one can learn the basics of tax Deeds by reading a book or taking a seminar but to make real money you have to invest in tax Deeds and not just in Tax Liens. With Tax deeds, you actually buy the property; with tax liens, you are buying the tax debt with varied chances (mostly very low) of actually getting the property.
In order to make money with Tax Deeds, you have to be able to evaluate a property by just looking at it from the outside and have to be able to estimate repair costs without setting a foot in the property. For vacant residential land, you have to figure out if the lot is buildable (in some cases this is, literally, impossible) . Those are learnable skills but most people would agree that it takes years of practice to acquire them.
We participate at tax sales all the time and our serious competitors are the General contractors that are looking for a house to flip, or Fund Investors like us. The gurus never tell you that you will run into serious competition that are likely to outbid everybody else.
this is so true and one needs to know when to fold your tent.. back in the old days 2000 to 2005 we were one of the top 3 court house steps foreclosure ( mortgage) buyers in the Portland Metro area ( funds had not come in yet) . So I started to loan money in Jackson Ms of all places and got interested in Tax liens so I grab 50k and fly down there to go to the sale at Hinds county only to be shocked at how many people were there the guys with laptops all organized how fast it went and how I was no way prepared and 50k was not going to do anything for me .
So I run over to Rankin county next day and same thing bid down to no return one company buying everything so like a typical newbie I was not going to be shut out so I bought a few liens not knowing what they were etc.. maybe 5k Never did see a dime of that money back.. And i new i had to stick to loaning money there and buying courthouse steps at least until the big funds started running those up. I cant for the life of me see how individuals unless they get lucky by honing in on one item can possibly make this stuff work
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes4y
@Nicole H. Our goal isn't to scare you away but make sure you are prepared and have realistic expectations.
ANY for of real estate investing is very competitive right now and will have some type of risks that are not obvious. Good luck
- Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes3ySomething similar happend to me years ago when I lived in NJ.
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Ed Tamayo:
I have never heard of TaxSaleSupport Coaching / Shade Ferre & Stephen Swenson's Class before but I exclusively do tax sales and I agree with what has been said already here.
I would just add the following:
I think one can learn the basics of tax Deeds by reading a book or taking a seminar but to make real money you have to invest in tax Deeds and not just in Tax Liens. With Tax deeds, you actually buy the property; with tax liens, you are buying the tax debt with varied chances (mostly very low) of actually getting the property.
In order to make money with Tax Deeds, you have to be able to evaluate a property by just looking at it from the outside and have to be able to estimate repair costs without setting a foot in the property. For vacant residential land, you have to figure out if the lot is buildable (in some cases this is, literally, impossible) . Those are learnable skills but most people would agree that it takes years of practice to acquire them.
We participate at tax sales all the time and our serious competitors are the General contractors that are looking for a house to flip, or Fund Investors like us. The gurus never tell you that you will run into serious competition that are likely to outbid everybody else.
this is so true and one needs to know when to fold your tent.. back in the old days 2000 to 2005 we were one of the top 3 court house steps foreclosure ( mortgage) buyers in the Portland Metro area ( funds had not come in yet) . So I started to loan money in Jackson Ms of all places and got interested in Tax liens so I grab 50k and fly down there to go to the sale at Hinds county only to be shocked at how many people were there the guys with laptops all organized how fast it went and how I was no way prepared and 50k was not going to do anything for me .
So I run over to Rankin county next day and same thing bid down to no return one company buying everything so like a typical newbie I was not going to be shut out so I bought a few liens not knowing what they were etc.. maybe 5k Never did see a dime of that money back.. And i new i had to stick to loaning money there and buying courthouse steps at least until the big funds started running those up. I cant for the life of me see how individuals unless they get lucky by honing in on one item can possibly make this stuff work
Went to the 2 counties adjacent to were I lived , to my surprise it seemed like everyone knew each other except once the bidding started this kid in his early 20's kept bidding on certain properties, eveyone looked at him as if to say,"who is this young punk?". He outbid the "oldtimers" and at the end they wanted to know who he was. Those days you had to have a cashiers check on the spot. - 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Ivan Terrero:
Something similar happend to me years ago when I lived in NJ.Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Ed Tamayo:
I have never heard of TaxSaleSupport Coaching / Shade Ferre & Stephen Swenson's Class before but I exclusively do tax sales and I agree with what has been said already here.
I would just add the following:
I think one can learn the basics of tax Deeds by reading a book or taking a seminar but to make real money you have to invest in tax Deeds and not just in Tax Liens. With Tax deeds, you actually buy the property; with tax liens, you are buying the tax debt with varied chances (mostly very low) of actually getting the property.
In order to make money with Tax Deeds, you have to be able to evaluate a property by just looking at it from the outside and have to be able to estimate repair costs without setting a foot in the property. For vacant residential land, you have to figure out if the lot is buildable (in some cases this is, literally, impossible) . Those are learnable skills but most people would agree that it takes years of practice to acquire them.
We participate at tax sales all the time and our serious competitors are the General contractors that are looking for a house to flip, or Fund Investors like us. The gurus never tell you that you will run into serious competition that are likely to outbid everybody else.
this is so true and one needs to know when to fold your tent.. back in the old days 2000 to 2005 we were one of the top 3 court house steps foreclosure ( mortgage) buyers in the Portland Metro area ( funds had not come in yet) . So I started to loan money in Jackson Ms of all places and got interested in Tax liens so I grab 50k and fly down there to go to the sale at Hinds county only to be shocked at how many people were there the guys with laptops all organized how fast it went and how I was no way prepared and 50k was not going to do anything for me .
So I run over to Rankin county next day and same thing bid down to no return one company buying everything so like a typical newbie I was not going to be shut out so I bought a few liens not knowing what they were etc.. maybe 5k Never did see a dime of that money back.. And i new i had to stick to loaning money there and buying courthouse steps at least until the big funds started running those up. I cant for the life of me see how individuals unless they get lucky by honing in on one item can possibly make this stuff work
Went to the 2 counties adjacent to were I lived , to my surprise it seemed like everyone knew each other except once the bidding started this kid in his early 20's kept bidding on certain properties, eveyone looked at him as if to say,"who is this young punk?". He outbid the "oldtimers" and at the end they wanted to know who he was. Those days you had to have a cashiers check on the spot.
probably just bidding for an investor.. very common to get younger folks who are great with laptops to bid at tax sales and foreclosure sales. Ran into this in Atlanta.. when trustee sales are all on the same day and there would be 5 to 8 cryers going at the same time it was uber hard to follow it.. we got our share but so did the hedge fund buyers and the folks they send to bid against the locals - Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes3y
Nobody had a laptop at the tax sale those days........
- Member since 2021 · 7 posts · 20 votes3y
Just went to their 3 day seminar. Long story short, it’s going to take a lot of research and due diligence to look at each deed. They suggest you go to live auctions which I feel is very hard when you have a job and are just starting out. And they want 25/35k for their mentorship/ coaching depending on what level you want.
- Member since 2023 · 1 post · 1 vote3y
Quote from @Sean Lemon:
Just went to their 3 day seminar. Long story short, it’s going to take a lot of research and due diligence to look at each deed. They suggest you go to live auctions which I feel is very hard when you have a job and are just starting out. And they want 25/35k for their mentorship/ coaching depending on what level you want.
Thank you for the info. I was planning to pay for attending the seminar but I don't have time to go in person at the bids nor do I have thousands to invest now.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3y
@Sean Lemon
If you are going to pay $25k+ for any mentorship you will want to have atleast $250k to invest - and that assumes the training gives you what you need (doubtful) to be successful.
Atleast with $250k you could recoup the investment in the training
Those who spend $25k and only have $30-$50k overall will never recoup that money and would be better investing it in a syndication.
7e investments53 Reviews - 3yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
@Sean Lemon
If you are going to pay $25k+ for any mentorship you will want to have atleast $250k to invest - and that assumes the training gives you what you need (doubtful) to be successful.
Atleast with $250k you could recoup the investment in the training
Those who spend $25k and only have $30-$50k overall will never recoup that money and would be better investing it in a syndication.
I had some spare time a month or so ago before an evening appointment so there was a tax deed feeder event at our local hotel.. maybe 20 people showed up.. professional speaker and 2 people working the back of the room.. outfit was out of KC.. of course they use as examples Extremely rare profit deals that might happen once in someone's career if at all. Same old pitch sell the sizzle do it for your family you deserve it anyone can do it . All you need is our 3 day training / which of course leads to the upsell big time for the big money event. Nothing has changed. Plus in Oregon were this was at we dont have tax liens and dont really have tax sales so all the examples were in the tax lien hot spots AZ FLA etc. and you can just do it on line. Tax liens are dominated by fully funded and staffed big outfits looking to buy down the returns for stable returns in the 3 to 7% range..
- Investor · Covington, LA · Member since 2012 · 517 posts · 317 votes3y
Quote from @Ned Carey:
@Nicole H. I never heard of them. Personally I am very skeptical of most tax sale training and especially of offers for access to off market liens or software. I have heard a lot of crap spewed by Gurus, and no one is going to sell a lien that is worthwhile for anything less than a premium. There are a lot of scammers in this space.
That said their monthly membership is cheap and the training is cheap. It is worth a shot to see it it has value. But be vary wary of an upsell.
If you are not willing to risk throwing away $49 for training then you shouldn't be investing in tax liens, which is itself risky.
If he is looking for mentoring at $49 a month he is going to be very disappointed. Doubt anyone would respond to his questions at that amount.
- Investor · Naples, FL · Member since 2016 · 256 posts · 75 votes3y
Quote from @Sean Lemon:
Just went to their 3 day seminar. Long story short, it’s going to take a lot of research and due diligence to look at each deed. They suggest you go to live auctions which I feel is very hard when you have a job and are just starting out. And they want 25/35k for their mento
My .02.........learn as much as you can here on BP
- Post Falls, ID · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 6 votes2y
Would NEVER EVER RECOMMEND THEM.
Almost Harassing and sly techniques to pressure you to buy there program. Waste of 15,500 and they REFUSE TO REFUND .
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes2y
Quote from @Jane Gold:
The $30K upfront fee to become an advance student is horrendous.
Yes, How long would it take you to recoup that investment earning 6% on your funds. Given the competition that is about what you can expect from tax liens.
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