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All Forum Posts by: Kim Hopkins

Kim Hopkins has started 48 posts and replied 254 times.

Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Kim Hopkins:

Hello! 

We have a great prospective property we're looking at. The broker OM says they're selling it at a 7.5% cap rate and $5.7m purchase price. 

Based on our experience, We are pretty sure their expenses are understated (they're at 23% of gross income and almost always are closer to 30%). 

They also have a sloppy typo where rent roll totals $410k on the rent roll page but is shown as $420k on the page where they use it to calculate NOI and purchase price (which would make a huge difference in offer price!)

We want to tie up the deal and show them that we're willing to do it at a 7.5% cap rate on the correct numbers, but we can't get the correct numbers until we're in contract and we don't want to retrade If the numbers were misstated (that never goes well in our experience).

Has anyone ever written an LOI that says something like this:

Buyer and seller agree that the purchase price is calculated by applying a 7.5% cap rate on actual annual income and and expenses and any decrease in NOI actuals from the OM will be reflected in an adjusted offer price.

Any ideas? Best way to handle this kind of situation? 

Theoretically, it can be done, BUT, to be effective you’d have to agree upfront to a third party deciding what “true” net is.  I don’t see anyway around the “regrading”; which probably occurs in many commercial deals.  I just sold some land I own that, while doing their do Dillinger the buyer and I discovered an unknown under ground steam that was flooding a large portion of the property rendering over half the property unbuildable, with a very costly remedial procedure. The buyer offered a new contract with a 50% price drop; I was willing to drop 40% and the buyer accepted and we closed.  New information = new price.  
My suggestion is that you make the offer based on the best information available; you can state in the offer than you’re basing your offer on the advertised 7.5 cap rate and that if due diligence shows that the net income is lower you will adjust the offer based on the resultant 7.5 cap rate.  This does 2 things. First, if the seller accepts he is acknowledging that the final price is likely to be lower than the original price offered; second, if he’s “playing” games he’s likely to reject the offer as a “waste of time”, thereby ensuring that you don’t waste your time. 
There is also a strong possibility that the seller doesn’t even thing about the cap rate; he just wants a certain price and the broker “messaged” the p and l  to show an acceptable cap rate.  It’s know as “recasting” and is commonly done and in my opinion complete bs.  
I will also tell you (you probably already know this) that sometimes a listing needs to “season” before the seller is willing to accept reality of property value.  Ninety percent + sellers think that their real property holdings are worth more than they actually are.  Sometimes by crazy multiples.  Being a buyer usually means shifting through lots of overpriced crap to find the “doable” deal.  I look at 50-100 deals to do 1.  
This brings up another issue.  Most brokers place a property on the nationally advertised websites for sale before obtaining a title report.  Many times either the title is “clouded”, there’s additional undisclosed liens against the property (especially IRS and property tax liens), the survey or legal description is deficient, the seller doesn’t hold title to all the property he thinks he does, there are easements which negatively affect property use and value; the property is not in zoning compliance, the property was inherited but never went thorough probate, or their are “missing” heirs that may hold an interest in title. 

Lots of great insights here, thank you! I like the idea of putting in the LOI that the offer is based on the 7.5% CAP rate. At a bare minimum, this gives just a little ethical coverage in the case that the numbers turn out to be B.S. ("wow, no repairs ever?!").

Very interesting responses. A follow up question would be: 

What is your philosophy/practice on asking for credits based on the results of the inspection period findings? 

And do you consider any request for a credit to be "re-trading"? 

Say for example, once in contract during DD, you find items like 2 leaking HVAC's at $8k replacement value each, parking lot needs recoat, and 30% of shingles are failing. How would you proceed?

I have a very unofficial survey to conduct! 

For those of you buying CRE right now, I'm very curious to hear the following:

1. Your property type. E.g. multi tenant industrial. 

2. The lending terms you're seeing. E.g. 60% LTV, 6.75% interest, 5 year term, 30 year AM

3. What cap rate you consider "good"? E.g. 7 - 7.5% 

4. What your expected COC return is with your underwriting? E.g. terms above yield 5.5% COC.

I'm struggling right now. Was stoked to find a property with a 7.5% cap but b/c of the lending terms, my cash on cash sucks. Do need to take tax savings into account though. $1 in my pocket would be better than paying a gazillion bucks in taxes... 

Can't wait to hear what you're seeing! 

Quote from @Ronald Rohde:

Don't mention it in the LOI, it makes your offer very unattractive from the get go. Once you're executed PSA, bring everything up.

Who knows, maybe tomorrow the Seller has already replaced that HVAC and your offer will sound very foolish.


Ok this is what we usually do. I totally agree. Do you think it's fair to say in the LOI then that we don't retrade? I mean we don't retrade unless something is misrepresented or there's deferred maintenance that wasn't disclosed...

Hello! 

We have a commercial retail building in the 5 to 6 million range that we're looking to make an LOI on out of state.

typically we do not see the property ahead of time before getting in contract, Just online due diligence, so to speak.

In this case, we happen to have boots on the ground and had someone go by the property. There are some deferred maintenance items like a leaking HVAC against the back wall, some shingles in need of replacing, and a dent in one of the walls. It's nothing we would pull out of the deal for, but certainly something we would eventually want to evaluate and ask the seller to either repair or credit.

We try to pride ourselves on not retreading but at the same time we want to tie up this deal and it doesn't really make sense to get repair people over there to assess costs while there are other interested buyers and before we've made an LOI.

What are your best practices here? Do you put something into the LOI indicating you're aware of these items or do you tie up the deal and evaluate these as soon as you're in contract, and ask for a credit or repair at that time?

Thanks!

Kim

Quote from @Greg Scott:

While I understand the concept, how do you decide what is the "true" NOI?

I could see arguments ensuing about whether an expenditure is a capital improvement that goes to the balance sheet or a repair which hits NOI. If the seller stops taking a management fee and the NOI goes up, can they force you to pay more? Seems like there would be too much opportunity to play games.


I agree. Not to mention, what NOI are we looking at? 2023 prorated? 2022? The intent of what I'm getting at is trying to make an offer based on stated numbers that I think are low. Any ideas on how to structure it better to avoid the issues you describe above?

Hello! 

We have a great prospective property we're looking at. The broker OM says they're selling it at a 7.5% cap rate and $5.7m purchase price. 

Based on our experience, We are pretty sure their expenses are understated (they're at 23% of gross income and almost always are closer to 30%). 

They also have a sloppy typo where rent roll totals $410k on the rent roll page but is shown as $420k on the page where they use it to calculate NOI and purchase price (which would make a huge difference in offer price!)

We want to tie up the deal and show them that we're willing to do it at a 7.5% cap rate on the correct numbers, but we can't get the correct numbers until we're in contract and we don't want to retrade If the numbers were misstated (that never goes well in our experience).

Has anyone ever written an LOI that says something like this:

Buyer and seller agree that the purchase price is calculated by applying a 7.5% cap rate on actual annual income and and expenses and any decrease in NOI actuals from the OM will be reflected in an adjusted offer price.

Any ideas? Best way to handle this kind of situation? 

Quote from @Tom Gimer:

Try HubSpot … their free version links with Outlook to keep track of communications as you have described. 


 Thanks Tom! I was just logging on to say that I went with HubSpot (and upgraded within 5 minutes to get the customizable fields :-) 

It is absolutely fantastic!

Hello! 

I need to find a deal to buy this year like yesterday! Not sure it matters, but 4 to $6 million dollar deal, multi-tenant industrial or retail, preferably the former, small tenants around 2,000 ft².

I'm making a list from loopnet and crexi of properties and emailing the brokers.

I just need a very simple CRM that allows me to make a list of brokers, make a list of properties, and connect the two where appropriate.

I just needed to track emails and attach it to the correct person/property so that my VA can send follow-up template emails easily and we can all stay organized.

I know there have been a hundred discussions on CRMs And I've read them all but I can't discern if there is one that stands out as being super simple and free would be awesome too. I'd like to be able to set it up in a couple hours, which probably translates to 8 hours, but that's the intention :-)

thanks!

Kim

Well, in case anyone is curious. I FINALLY figured out all the mathematical connections between cap rate, interest rate, and what I call the "break even interest rate" that determines when your return will increase or decrease with debt. 

I created a portfolio wide analysis where I use all the "math" on our existing portfolio to assess property performance and analyze whether to: 

1. Do Nothing

2. Refi and Reinvest (i.e. keep property and buy another) or 

3. Sell and Reinvest. 

Here is a 6 minute video that walks through the process in case anyone is curious or would like to try to apply this to their own portfolio. 

Welcome feedback as always!

Kim