All Forum Posts by: Joe Cassandra

If you want to build more wealth and income faster, the stock market rarely brings that UNLESS you're an early investor...and the venture becomes a hit.

Sure, you could've invested in Netflix in 2003, but would you have dumped all your money into it and held on for 15 years to bank 38,000%? Most wouldn't except the founders (they have more information than you).

Most people are fine putting money into an index fund for 30 years and compounding 7%.

REI is a pain in the butt...I hate dealing with rehabbing, contractors, tenants...

But if I'm going to be making a passive income that we live pretty comfy in 10-12 years...

I have to put work in now...a lot of work and stress.

Putting $100,000 into the stock market...I would never bet it all on some 'gold' mining stock that could go up 500% in 5 weeks, or drop 75%.

I'd end up putting it in Apple, and maybe in 10 years it goes up 200%...sounds good, but after 10 years, I'm at 300k, which isn't enough to live on passively.

1 Vote

#realtalk

You use estimates based on local pricing to the best of your ability.

the first house you'll be off by a lot, so plan for some big misses.

A mistake I just made was not looking for the big stuff

A house just bought I missed how bad the decks were (a few grand to replace)...also missed foundation cracking in basement...a few more grand

Now over budget :)

It is all learning.

you just have to dive in knowing you'll miss something big, so budget for contingency

1 Vote

Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Geez...the smug attitudes in this thread...

"Oh no, you're getting direct mail...must be so hard to throw it out along with all the insurance, cable, coupons you get." (Do you complain about those to AT&T and WalMart?)

To anyone reading this thread

...who didn't invest in real estate 30 years ago (and it's appreciated 200%+ since then)

...who didn't buy all their properties on the courthouse steps 20 years ago

...or. who didn't buy REOs when they rained from the sky like manna in 2011

Finding off-market deals is $#*@*% hard. Especially in one of the hottest markets in history.

Well, when you've only invested for 1-5 years...You have no credibility.

You have to MAKE your own luck.

---

I sent out 2800 letters last month...got 3 deals...in a hot market. (I closed on all of them, no wholesaling)

#1. I didn't use 'deceptive' practices

#2. I didn't 'trick' someone out of their property. They knew they were selling at a discount.

#3. They weren't 'dumb' sellers.

I got 2 happy video testimonials out of it for proof...

----------

Yes, most wholesalers suck.

All the people you hear on the podcasts who've made it big all correlate their success to working harder than others...pushing when others are telling them 'no.',

Why dump on people trying to do the same?

I personally don't text random numbers as that's lazy and I think it starts a relationship off wrong...

But maybe see these people reaching out as potential partners...real estate is small enough as it is.

Joe keep in mind the folks commenting here know the score.. so of course they are going to be jaded and annoyed etc.

thats not who wholesalers are targeting .. or any buyer for that matter.. they are looking for the seller that has some sort of motivation.

1. burnt out landlord

2. inherited a mess

3. financial distress

4. just plain weird and afraid of RE agents.

these folks are not looking to do business with buy and hold investors on BP per se unless they want them for THEIR buyers list.. although with all the how to training that goes on .. and the miss information / Fake news that wholesaling is the quickest way to build capital when you have no capital.. you have thousands upon thousands of folks giving it try and following the recipe they learn at these seminars or in the webinar they watched etc. And really its not mystery there is only a few ways to contact a seller.

1. US mail

2. Fed ex

3. Pound on their door

4. call them

5. Text ( which i hate personally) and this just became a thing in the last decade.

6. other advertising medium's like billboards radio ads TV ads internet U tube ads. Oh ya and facebook and linkdin and I guess tweeter I don't have any of those but I suppose people use those as well. But a lot of owners are going to be older and not tech or up with the tech / computer social media stuff

with the post card i guess being the easiest since it tends to be turn key for the beginner.. IE send us 5k we will send out this many post cards to the zips you provide..

When I was in the land and Timber business.. We did door knocking and Telemarketing.. both very effective.. for one thing on the telemarketing rural land owners RARELY get any kind of solicitations.. So my telemarketers who were in my office would get into some nice conversations with these folks.. Its when your in an urban setting that your going to get hammered..

Also since we went for very small niche.. A letter of intro from our attorney stating that we would like to start negotiations to buy their property was highly effective HIGHLY..

I agree with what you say Jay.

And I can see how it's annoying getting texts/calls everyday (I don't do that, only DM and Google PPC).

No doubt. i get it. I hate spam too.

---------

I'm more discouraged to see long-time investors here scoffing at new people trying to get into the industry.

I'm only around 12 months in (since I've taken it seriously), and I don't do this full-time as I have another business.

...So I don't time to build a network of brokers...

...I don't have credibility in my area...

Thus...

I'm testing different ways to find deals on my own (with my wife) as there aren't any 'great' deals on the MLS in North Atlanta, courthouse auctions are a joke, most wholesalers around here are a joke too, and REOs are non-existent.

So I have to market hard (and spend thousands and thousands) to try and build my portfolio.

-------

Others may not be as fortunate to have the marketing budget and they have to try other means to drum up leads (like texting).

I'm guessing the experience others have of answering and not getting a response is simply fear on the part of the wholesaler.

------

I respond to every wholesaler who reaches out about my properties as you never know where that relationship may lead.

90% are a waste of time, sure.

But the other 10% could bring just one huge deal to you.

Maybe I'm just advocating to look at these guys with a different lens...

Especially if you started in RE before low interest rates, low inventory, iBuyers, and technology made it faster for big budgets to find deals.

its a sifting process no doubt.. if you have the time and energy to sift through it al that's a business decision. This thread got me to thinking.

I wrote my operations manager today and I think I have an INFO @ e mail that goes to my company website.. so what I am going to do now. Is have all the wholesalers who contact me take down that e mail.. so the potentials in all the states and markets we do work in go to one central place.. then if we are interested we can contact them.. But I wont go for the HEY i sent this to 500 people you need to give me an offer in 24 hours.. thats how Morris sucked into thousand investors.. But if we can prove to these folks WE ARE real then maybe we can get a more traditional relationship like I have with my RE broker network we have established over the decades.. ?? And like you said I suspect if we put some energy into it maybe we can find a deal for our vendors / so we can fund it for them.

And then when the deals come through i just run them through housefolios and in 5 minutes i will know if they are even remotely worth chasing.

That's a good idea.

I mean if you waste 10 hours of your year talking to wholesalers, but one of them brings you a deal that nets you 50-100k...is it a waste of time?

For some, maybe if you're used to fatter deals.

For most, they'd take that haha

That's all I'm saying rather than just putting people down who have to market to find their deals because I don't have your 30-year track record yet, Jay (hopefully one day :D )

I dont think i am putting anyone down? we all have to start somewhere, I have had agents work for me over the years that went on to be rock stars .. but sales is sales is sales end of the day this is a sales business at its core.. some are good at it.. some not so much.

and your right about agents and frankly others.. not answering their phones .. just like everything there are good and bad in all professions.

network is important.. VERY important..

I wasn't referring to you Jay. (My bad not separating out thoughts).

You always are respectful to everyone... a true gent.

Wasn't grouping you in.

It's others on this thread.

Which I get where they're coming from...

I don't like spam either.

But it's not you're getting spammed from life insurance salesmen or from SiriusXM (they're freakin' relentless)...

It's other people in this small RE industry.

Assume someone could be a good ally until they prove to be a waste of time. That's what I do at least.

Maybe once I'm getting 10x texts/calls a day I'll feel different. I only get a couple postcards and a text here and there...but not everyday.

I get about 5-10 calls and maybe 1 or 2 texts per day, its crazy. The ringless voicemail has stopped thank god (no idea why) and I will say the texts have slowed down a lot, but the calls are increasing like crazy.

I can tell you dont get the same kinds of calls because you are saying they are "fellow investors" calling. They aren't, they are virtual assistants calling reading off scripts. They also usually won't tell you the actual company they are calling from, or the name of the principal behind it, they just hang up as soon as you show any degree of suspicion or industry knowledge.

I have gotten ONE call out of hundreds that I can remember that I could tell was from another investor -- mostly because he sounded nervous as hell. I actually talked to him for a while (he was a newbie) and told him he was free to call me back if he wanted. Never did, by what he told me about his experience cold-calling I dont think he got very far with it. I do also get young bucks with NYC style accents being pushy on the phone, but I won't give them the time of day due to their pushiness.

The reason I get hit so hard is my market is overheated, I own a fair amount of property with equity, and I am easily found. I think if I were in a slower market, owned in complicated entities or only had one or two I would be a lot less of a target and probably wonder why all these investors are so upset (hint, its because they have something that everyone else wants)

You may be reading this as "smug" but my emotion is "annoyed." I will talk to anyone about real estate. I live and invest in a lower-income area and I will teach anyone that will listen about what I do and how I've gotten to where I am. I will be standing outside a property and some random guy will drive up and ask if I am selling, and we'll wind up talking about real estate for an hour and exchange numbers... but send a virtual assistant to call me 3x per week and not even reveal the name of the company she works for and you will get "smug" posts complaining about it..... and I only complain, I've never turned anyone in (yet) or really interfered with anyone's business. Live and let live, but it's getting to the point where I may start doing more about it.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Nicky.

I only get a handful of postcards and texts, not some 3x per day. Which I 100% believe it'd be super annoying. Esp if it is overseas VAs who know nothing about RE.

Sorry for my assumptions.

Like I said, I'm not a cold caller/texter, I do direct mail/PPC only. I think mass texting will likely be illegal soon enough

0 Votes

Props to you for jumping back in the saddle Klran.

Your positive attitude learning from your mistakes will take you far.

good luck!!

1 Vote

I stopped looking at MLS data where I am (which is where you are in Atlanta @Damicco Robinson). I'm in Woodstock actually and mostly just invest around Cherokee, Cobb and Bartow.

I found checking the MLS daily was a waste of time...when i could spend my time doing other things like following up with off market leads.

Sure, a deal may come up every month or so...

But you'll be bidding against 5-10 other offers...

Plus, the opportunity costs of spending 1-2 hours per day checking the MLS to bid on one great deal...and then potentially not getting it...seems like not a good use of time.

Especially as many newbies solely rely on what realtors bring them.

-----------

As for wholesaling on market properties...I'd think there is also a bias of "Oh, you got this off the MLS, you didn't have to 'work' for the deal" haha

0 Votes

Atlanta, Georgia

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Geez...the smug attitudes in this thread...

"Oh no, you're getting direct mail...must be so hard to throw it out along with all the insurance, cable, coupons you get." (Do you complain about those to AT&T and WalMart?)

To anyone reading this thread

...who didn't invest in real estate 30 years ago (and it's appreciated 200%+ since then)

...who didn't buy all their properties on the courthouse steps 20 years ago

...or. who didn't buy REOs when they rained from the sky like manna in 2011

Finding off-market deals is $#*@*% hard. Especially in one of the hottest markets in history.

Well, when you've only invested for 1-5 years...You have no credibility.

You have to MAKE your own luck.

---

I sent out 2800 letters last month...got 3 deals...in a hot market. (I closed on all of them, no wholesaling)

#1. I didn't use 'deceptive' practices

#2. I didn't 'trick' someone out of their property. They knew they were selling at a discount.

#3. They weren't 'dumb' sellers.

I got 2 happy video testimonials out of it for proof...

----------

Yes, most wholesalers suck.

All the people you hear on the podcasts who've made it big all correlate their success to working harder than others...pushing when others are telling them 'no.',

Why dump on people trying to do the same?

I personally don't text random numbers as that's lazy and I think it starts a relationship off wrong...

But maybe see these people reaching out as potential partners...real estate is small enough as it is.

Joe keep in mind the folks commenting here know the score.. so of course they are going to be jaded and annoyed etc.

thats not who wholesalers are targeting .. or any buyer for that matter.. they are looking for the seller that has some sort of motivation.

1. burnt out landlord

2. inherited a mess

3. financial distress

4. just plain weird and afraid of RE agents.

1. US mail

2. Fed ex

3. Pound on their door

4. call them

5. Text ( which i hate personally) and this just became a thing in the last decade.

with the post card i guess being the easiest since it tends to be turn key for the beginner.. IE send us 5k we will send out this many post cards to the zips you provide..

Also since we went for very small niche.. A letter of intro from our attorney stating that we would like to start negotiations to buy their property was highly effective HIGHLY..

I agree with what you say Jay.

And I can see how it's annoying getting texts/calls everyday (I don't do that, only DM and Google PPC).

No doubt. i get it. I hate spam too.

---------

I'm more discouraged to see long-time investors here scoffing at new people trying to get into the industry.

I'm only around 12 months in (since I've taken it seriously), and I don't do this full-time as I have another business.

...So I don't time to build a network of brokers...

...I don't have credibility in my area...

Thus...

So I have to market hard (and spend thousands and thousands) to try and build my portfolio.

-------

Others may not be as fortunate to have the marketing budget and they have to try other means to drum up leads (like texting).

I'm guessing the experience others have of answering and not getting a response is simply fear on the part of the wholesaler.

------

I respond to every wholesaler who reaches out about my properties as you never know where that relationship may lead.

90% are a waste of time, sure.

But the other 10% could bring just one huge deal to you.

Maybe I'm just advocating to look at these guys with a different lens...

Especially if you started in RE before low interest rates, low inventory, iBuyers, and technology made it faster for big budgets to find deals.

its a sifting process no doubt.. if you have the time and energy to sift through it al that's a business decision. This thread got me to thinking.

And then when the deals come through i just run them through housefolios and in 5 minutes i will know if they are even remotely worth chasing.

That's a good idea.

I mean if you waste 10 hours of your year talking to wholesalers, but one of them brings you a deal that nets you 50-100k...is it a waste of time?

For some, maybe if you're used to fatter deals.

For most, they'd take that haha

That's all I'm saying rather than just putting people down who have to market to find their deals because I don't have your 30-year track record yet, Jay (hopefully one day :D )

and your right about agents and frankly others.. not answering their phones .. just like everything there are good and bad in all professions.

network is important.. VERY important..

I wasn't referring to you Jay. (My bad not separating out thoughts).

You always are respectful to everyone... a true gent.

Wasn't grouping you in.

It's others on this thread.

Which I get where they're coming from...

I don't like spam either.

But it's not you're getting spammed from life insurance salesmen or from SiriusXM (they're freakin' relentless)...

It's other people in this small RE industry.

Assume someone could be a good ally until they prove to be a waste of time. That's what I do at least.

Maybe once I'm getting 10x texts/calls a day I'll feel different. I only get a couple postcards and a text here and there...but not everyday.

0 Votes

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Geez...the smug attitudes in this thread...

"Oh no, you're getting direct mail...must be so hard to throw it out along with all the insurance, cable, coupons you get." (Do you complain about those to AT&T and WalMart?)

To anyone reading this thread

...who didn't invest in real estate 30 years ago (and it's appreciated 200%+ since then)

...who didn't buy all their properties on the courthouse steps 20 years ago

...or. who didn't buy REOs when they rained from the sky like manna in 2011

Finding off-market deals is $#*@*% hard. Especially in one of the hottest markets in history.

Well, when you've only invested for 1-5 years...You have no credibility.

You have to MAKE your own luck.

---

I sent out 2800 letters last month...got 3 deals...in a hot market. (I closed on all of them, no wholesaling)

#1. I didn't use 'deceptive' practices

#2. I didn't 'trick' someone out of their property. They knew they were selling at a discount.

#3. They weren't 'dumb' sellers.

I got 2 happy video testimonials out of it for proof...

----------

Yes, most wholesalers suck.

All the people you hear on the podcasts who've made it big all correlate their success to working harder than others...pushing when others are telling them 'no.',

Why dump on people trying to do the same?

I personally don't text random numbers as that's lazy and I think it starts a relationship off wrong...

But maybe see these people reaching out as potential partners...real estate is small enough as it is.

Joe keep in mind the folks commenting here know the score.. so of course they are going to be jaded and annoyed etc.

thats not who wholesalers are targeting .. or any buyer for that matter.. they are looking for the seller that has some sort of motivation.

1. burnt out landlord

2. inherited a mess

3. financial distress

4. just plain weird and afraid of RE agents.

1. US mail

2. Fed ex

3. Pound on their door

4. call them

5. Text ( which i hate personally) and this just became a thing in the last decade.

with the post card i guess being the easiest since it tends to be turn key for the beginner.. IE send us 5k we will send out this many post cards to the zips you provide..

Also since we went for very small niche.. A letter of intro from our attorney stating that we would like to start negotiations to buy their property was highly effective HIGHLY..

I agree with what you say Jay.

And I can see how it's annoying getting texts/calls everyday (I don't do that, only DM and Google PPC).

No doubt. i get it. I hate spam too.

---------

I'm more discouraged to see long-time investors here scoffing at new people trying to get into the industry.

I'm only around 12 months in (since I've taken it seriously), and I don't do this full-time as I have another business.

...So I don't time to build a network of brokers...

...I don't have credibility in my area...

Thus...

So I have to market hard (and spend thousands and thousands) to try and build my portfolio.

-------

Others may not be as fortunate to have the marketing budget and they have to try other means to drum up leads (like texting).

I'm guessing the experience others have of answering and not getting a response is simply fear on the part of the wholesaler.

------

I respond to every wholesaler who reaches out about my properties as you never know where that relationship may lead.

90% are a waste of time, sure.

But the other 10% could bring just one huge deal to you.

Maybe I'm just advocating to look at these guys with a different lens...

Especially if you started in RE before low interest rates, low inventory, iBuyers, and technology made it faster for big budgets to find deals.

its a sifting process no doubt.. if you have the time and energy to sift through it al that's a business decision. This thread got me to thinking.

And then when the deals come through i just run them through housefolios and in 5 minutes i will know if they are even remotely worth chasing.

That's a good idea.

I mean if you waste 10 hours of your year talking to wholesalers, but one of them brings you a deal that nets you 50-100k...is it a waste of time?

For some, maybe if you're used to fatter deals.

For most, they'd take that haha

That's all I'm saying rather than just putting people down who have to market to find their deals because I don't have your 30-year track record yet, Jay (hopefully one day :D )

1 Vote

Originally posted by @Steve Morris:

Originally posted by @Kip Stephens:

I am a Realeatate solutions provider. I provide numerous creative financial opportunities to folks that are in need of my help.

Suggested Script:

W/S: Mr Owner you've owned your property for a long time and seem enfeebled. Have you talked to anyone about FMV of your property at all?

Owner: Well, no, but I'm stage 4 dementia and going into hospice so need some money to pay bills and leave some for my kids.

W/S: Tell you what, sign this EMA for $50K and while I'll put $0.00 into escrow, let me tie up your property until I can find someone I don't know yet to buy your house at an end price you won't see. Does that sound like a deal?

Owner: Umm, yes, can I talk to my daughter first?

W/S: Well, no, an offer this good doesn't hang out there forever you should sign right NOW. Those brokers telling you your house is worth $500K just want to list it and advertise to a whole bunch of buyers and it might take up to a month or so to sell.

Owner: Bless you for offering help with your creative solutions.

This "script" proves you have no idea what you're talking about.

99% of sellers are of sound mind.

100% want full retail price without paying a realtor.

5% get to a point where they need money right now...need to get rid of the house fast...or like one guy who I met 2 weeks ago who has a 500k house...he just doesn't want to deal with fixing up the house to sell. (he's a millionaire and self-employed).

---------

Stop thinking everything about selling a house has to do with price.

It doesn't.

Send out 2000 letters and talk to the 10-20 people who call.

You'll realize quickly 50% of them have a problem they need solved that doesn't have to do wtih getting 100% of the value out of their house.

----

Stop ripping shock-and-awe headlines from newspapers and generalizing it.

Here's a generalization about realtors:

1) Most lie to their buying clients about there being 'multiple offers' on a house

2) Most lie about comps saying "this house is a great buy" when their comps are of new builds (happened to me)

3) Most don't return phonecalls and complain why they make $0

4) Most listing agents will tell their sellers to just 'take' an offer and all the concessions/repairs because no other offers will come around...but really they just want their commission check so they pay their mortgage

2 Votes

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

Originally posted by @Joe Cassandra:

Geez...the smug attitudes in this thread...

"Oh no, you're getting direct mail...must be so hard to throw it out along with all the insurance, cable, coupons you get." (Do you complain about those to AT&T and WalMart?)

To anyone reading this thread

...who didn't invest in real estate 30 years ago (and it's appreciated 200%+ since then)

...who didn't buy all their properties on the courthouse steps 20 years ago

...or. who didn't buy REOs when they rained from the sky like manna in 2011

Finding off-market deals is $#*@*% hard. Especially in one of the hottest markets in history.

Well, when you've only invested for 1-5 years...You have no credibility.

You have to MAKE your own luck.

---

I sent out 2800 letters last month...got 3 deals...in a hot market. (I closed on all of them, no wholesaling)

#1. I didn't use 'deceptive' practices

#2. I didn't 'trick' someone out of their property. They knew they were selling at a discount.

#3. They weren't 'dumb' sellers.

I got 2 happy video testimonials out of it for proof...

----------

Yes, most wholesalers suck.

All the people you hear on the podcasts who've made it big all correlate their success to working harder than others...pushing when others are telling them 'no.',

Why dump on people trying to do the same?

I personally don't text random numbers as that's lazy and I think it starts a relationship off wrong...

But maybe see these people reaching out as potential partners...real estate is small enough as it is.

Joe keep in mind the folks commenting here know the score.. so of course they are going to be jaded and annoyed etc.

thats not who wholesalers are targeting .. or any buyer for that matter.. they are looking for the seller that has some sort of motivation.

1. burnt out landlord

2. inherited a mess

3. financial distress

4. just plain weird and afraid of RE agents.

1. US mail

2. Fed ex

3. Pound on their door

4. call them

5. Text ( which i hate personally) and this just became a thing in the last decade.

with the post card i guess being the easiest since it tends to be turn key for the beginner.. IE send us 5k we will send out this many post cards to the zips you provide..

Also since we went for very small niche.. A letter of intro from our attorney stating that we would like to start negotiations to buy their property was highly effective HIGHLY..

I agree with what you say Jay.

And I can see how it's annoying getting texts/calls everyday (I don't do that, only DM and Google PPC).

No doubt. i get it. I hate spam too.

---------

I'm more discouraged to see long-time investors here scoffing at new people trying to get into the industry.

I'm only around 12 months in (since I've taken it seriously), and I don't do this full-time as I have another business.

...So I don't time to build a network of brokers...

...I don't have credibility in my area...

Thus...

So I have to market hard (and spend thousands and thousands) to try and build my portfolio.

-------

Others may not be as fortunate to have the marketing budget and they have to try other means to drum up leads (like texting).

I'm guessing the experience others have of answering and not getting a response is simply fear on the part of the wholesaler.

------

I respond to every wholesaler who reaches out about my properties as you never know where that relationship may lead.

90% are a waste of time, sure.

But the other 10% could bring just one huge deal to you.

Maybe I'm just advocating to look at these guys with a different lens...

Especially if you started in RE before low interest rates, low inventory, iBuyers, and technology made it faster for big budgets to find deals.

2 Votes

All Forum Posts by: Joe Cassandra

Joe Cassandra has started 18 posts and replied 504 times.

Post: Marketing to acquire beach rental airbnbs

Post: Real Estate Investors! Are the return worth it instead of stocks?

Post: Estimating Rehab Cost

Post: Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?

Post: Worst FIRST FLIP: LOST OVER 100k

Post: Why investors have a negative stigma about listed deals (Atlanta)

Post: Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?

Post: Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?

Post: Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?

Post: Anyone Else Worn Out by Wholesalers Texts and Postcards?