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All Forum Posts by: Ihe O.

Ihe O. has started 15 posts and replied 387 times.

Post: Are you not afraid to be in debt for 30 years?

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Joe Villeneuve:

 I would take it step further.  Buying all cash isn't investing at all.  It's simply withdrawing you money from the bank, and then depositing your money in a house.  In both cases, your money is dead, since it isn't moving.  Invested money/cash should be moving.  The word "cash" isn't a noun...it's a verb.  When it becomes a noun, you lose.

Investment is the allocation of money or time in the expectation of future benefit. What distinguishes it as an investment is your motives - whether you hope  to make capital gain/income or whether you just want to live in it. How you fund it (cash or debt) is completely immaterial 

Post: Are you not afraid to be in debt for 30 years?

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

As a investor you understand that it is smarter to own 50 properties purchased with financing than 10 properties purchased with all cash. Diversification is your safety net creating 5X the returns on your investment and 5X the potential appreciation. When you buy with cash you are less diversified and have all your own money at risk in a concentrated investment. Diversification uses the same amount of your own money but transfers the majority of your risk to your silent partner...the bank.

It primarily boils down to a indivulaes business skills. Cash hoarders do not use business skills. Rather than invest they simply stockpile cash in real estate.

 ......and as anybody who understands risk management will tell you 5X the potential losses. 

..... and as anybody who understands risk management will tell you a 50 property portfolio is not diversified - it's all in property and a bank will limit their exposure both to a single counterparty and a single asset class so that when the market tanks they don't go all the way down with you.

Leveragers don't use business skills they simply stockpile debt in real estate.

Post: Which tenant would you choose?

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190

Applicant 1 because they are more likely to be stable 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out. 

Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.

That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.

Or you can look at it as a form of Charity that year..  its not like this happens often.. i get your position Jim you work at the pleasure of your clients its not your decision..  But for me if this was one of my tenants you already know what i would do if I knew for certain someone had terminal cancer.. they would simply be my chairty for that period of time..  Heck i let people stop paying rent if it gets too cold and they cant heat the house .... I can see the undercapitalized landlord though freaking out.. they are in a no win position.. if you cant stay afloat missing 3 yo 6 months of rent your in bigger hot water than you realize regardless.

Note though how this thing has been escalated. 

The OP never said the tenant had terminal cancer and never said she was a non-payer, just that she was late. 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out. 

Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.

That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.

The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.

You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid  evicting tenants  who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business. 

The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings. 

 Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.

The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business. 

I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.

Except that anybody initiating this sort of topic on here is almost certainly not a large scale business so none of those considerations apply.  

 I run a $50M+ portfolio, so there's that.......I'm sure many other BP members run even bigger businesses than that. Even if they didn't if one way is proven to work better I'd imagine that one would want to use that way no matter the size of their portfolio.

Well you are wrong. Mom and pop shops don't thrive by aping every aspect of the way big businesses operate.  That is also a proven concept. 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out. 

Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.

That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.

The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.

You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid  evicting tenants  who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business. 

The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings. 

 Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.

The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business. 

I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.

Except that anybody initiating this sort of topic on here is almost certainly not a large scale landlord and so it is bad advice for them.

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out. 

Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.

That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.

The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.

You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid  evicting tenants  who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business. 

The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings. 

 Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.

The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business. 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @James Wise:

I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out. 

Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.

That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.

The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.

You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid  evicting tenants  who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business. 

The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings. 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

Read your state landlord tenant regulations. If you understand how the process works you should know that a landlord issues the pay or quit notice the day following when rent is due. This officially gives  "notice" and begins a process to collect or evict. It is by no means a immediate eviction and once issued the tenant is in full control of the direction it takes.

Just to make sure you understand....once the pay or quit is issued the tenant is in control. They may choose to pay, leave or force their landlord to evict them. This is not a landlords decision it is the tenants. Tenants only get evicted if they choose to be evicted.

Responsible indivulaes pay there debts. That's life. No free rides.

More from the school of Alice in Wonderland Landlording.  

That's like saying that the suspect is in full control of the direction of a prosecution once they have been charged by the police. 

Post: Tenant is late and has cancer

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Greg H.:

@Ihe O.

Sensible for one business could be hours or days or for others months.  Some types of businesses can spread their risk over thousands of accounts and some can not.  Does not make either more or less compassionate

I didn't see an answer to the other question as to whether compassion or contingency plans only go one way ?

People who are not able to withstand a deviation of days or weeks  probably shouldn't be in business.

 I answered your other question. Landlord tenant is not a symmetric relationship etc