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All Forum Posts by: Ihe O.

Ihe O. has started 15 posts and replied 387 times.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

@Ihe O. "Finally" you say, like you've made a breakthrough in the education of me.

Give me a break man.

 Er no nothing to do with your education, I'm not responsible for that.

Finally as in you finally acknowledge that something could be discriminatory when presented with an example of which you would be the "intended victim".

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?

That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.

BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.

Hmm. That sounds discriminatory. 

But the victims would be Americans ... so who cares, right?

 Finally. But it took an example of which you would have been a victim to get that acknowledgement. Yes it is discriminatory.

The thing about discrimination is that the victim has to care, care enough to take action by reporting it. Maybe it is so rife because many Americans may not want to live in such accommodations anyway.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:

@Ihe O. Did you just try to guilt trip me for making a joke about your stupid analogy?

That is between you are your conscience but to be honest there was alot more ignorant tripping going on there.

BTW it is a much more subtle way of ensuring that you don't get an American applicant than advertising for a tenant in Spanish, Urdu or Polish, but what would you know about that.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Tom Gimer:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

@Ihe O.

You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.

To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.

A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.

A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.

I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.

Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft.  I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's   substitute the word passport for SSN in your post . 

Ready ..... Here we go.

A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport 

An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.

A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.

Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.

The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.

When an applicant refuses to produce SSN to help me evaluate their creditworthiness I make an immediate demand for evidence of their ability to travel internationally.

If I wanted to discriminate against US citizens that is exactly what I would do and I would justify with  the same arguments that people use to justify discriminating against Blacks, Latino's, immigrants and anybody else that they don't rent to. 

That it's a consistent and universally applied criteria, no exceptions.

But hey don't let the fact that you have probably never been discriminated against in your life stop you from continuing to  show how much difficulty you have comprehending or accepting  such a relatively straightforward concept.

As to why that is is between you and your conscience.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

@Ihe O.

You are the one that needs to learn the definition of discrimination. Simply because you do not agree with something does not make it discrimination. You have proven in the past that you are a proponent of the "moral outrage and righteous indignation" camp. You have never had any conclusive evidence to support your position.

To clarify: A landlord is legally within their rights to ask for a applicants SSN.

A applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their SSN.

A landlord is legally within their rights to reject a applicant that does not provide their SSN.

I am going to use your logic to show you why you don't know what you are talking about.

Let's say I am a landlord who is concerned about fake SSN's due to identity theft.  I want something more reliable than an SSN, so let's   substitute the word passport for SSN in your post . 

Ready ..... Here we go.

A landlord is legally within their right to ask for an applicants passport 

An applicant is legally within their rights to refuse to provide their passport.

A landlord is legally within their rights to reject an applicant that does not provide their passport.

Policy is applied universally without exception. Where's the problem.

The problem is that 46% of US citizens don't have a passport .... which makes that policy indirectly discriminatory .... go ask an attorney next time.

Post: Starting a eviction...

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Shonda Williams:

I do not accept partial payments. 

I never ever decline a partial payment. Doing so increases the tenants ability to stiff you and put the money down as deposit on her next place.

If she stays then I got the money earlier and if she gets evicted then i have gotten money that she otherwise wouldn't have paid.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Patrick Blood:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Patrick Blood:

@Ihe O

That’s absolutely false.

If an individual is unsearchable in the US databases - someone who does not have a social security number for example - as a rule it’s better to offer the additional deposit.

That’s the opposite of discrimination.

Search what database. You're just a landlord, you're not the FBI.

 I am the owner of a large property management company, paid by my clients to manage and protect their assets. 

Our tenant application process is where the first line of protection begins. 

 If that's your job then you need a better grasp of what discrimination is.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Patrick Blood:

@Ihe O

That’s absolutely false.

If an individual is unsearchable in the US databases - someone who does not have a social security number for example - as a rule it’s better to offer the additional deposit.

That’s the opposite of discrimination.

Search what database. You're just a landlord, you're not the FBI.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Bill F.:

@Ihe O. Except for the fact that private landords are not "Federal, State or local government agency" thus Section 7 doesn't apply. Further reading of your link shows that Section 7 doesn't even apply to public housing:

"Claugus v. Roosevelt Island Hous. Mgmt. Corp., No. 96CIV8155, 1999 WL 258275, at *4 (S.D.N.Y. Apr. 29, 1999) (considering housing management corporation to be state actor for Privacy Act purposes but finding that Privacy Act does not apply to income verification process for public housing program because of exception created by 42 U.S.C. § 405(c)(2)(C)(i))."

What your source documents for ability to pay cannot verify is a background check for time since last eviction, conviction ect.

On to the topic of Background checks and Disparate Impact.

Landlords don't have any more right to an SSN than anybody else least of all the government agencies. 

The legitimate interest a landlord can have is in your ability to pay rent. If an applicant can satisfactorily show an ability to pay rent without showing you his SSN then the landlords continued interest in the SSN is not legitimate.

Background checks that are not financially oriented do not require SSN. They have given you their name and probably their DOB. That's all you need.

As to your link - my advice is not to put yourself in a position where you need to have an attorney to argue that in the first place.

Post: Renting to non citizens

Ihe O.Posted
  • Investor
  • Laurel, MD
  • Posts 395
  • Votes 190
Originally posted by @Kyle J.:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Bill F.:

@Ihe O. Great link. 

I think the entire text of the excerpt you provided will help answer some of @William George spear's questions. 

As long as the owner asks for SSNs from all applicants (and why wouldn't they, building systems and process is the way to grow and streamline your business), denying someone tenancy based on the fact that they do not have a SSN is not discrimination.

Except that Landlords have no legal right to demand SSN's.

Section 7 of the Privacy Act (found at 5 U.S.C. § 552a note (Disclosure of Social Security Number)) provides that:

“It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose his social security account number.” Sec. 7(a)(1).

https://www.justice.gov/opcl/social-security-numbe...

So you demand my SSN - I tell you no  and I have documentary proof of my ability to pay (sources of  income, savings), you deny me and I go straight to Fair Housing.

The trouble with the argument that you ask it of everybody is that  a discriminatory policy can be prosecuted by choosing to ask everybody questions that you know immigrants will have difficulty satisfying. 

Nowhere in this excerpt you provided does it say it is illegal for a private (non-government) landlord to ask for a applicant’s social security number. In fact, asking for a SSN is a perfectly legal part of the screening process.  

Here’s some more reading on the subject: 

Are You Required to Put Your Social Security Number on a Rental Application?

*Excerpt from the above link:

Do I have to put my social security number on a rental application?

The short answer: No. However, there is no law that forbids landlords from asking for a prospective tenant’s social security number on a rental application.d

 You've read it topsy-turvy.

I did not say that you are forbidden as a landlord. I am saying you don't have the right to demand it.