I liked the reduced crowds more intimate event than especially last year’s event. Orlando had way too many people for me. San Diego was bigger than this year, but a good size.
I felt this year was the most unorganized conference I have been to. The cevent app at the previous 2 BPcons was better than the plethora of means to get information. Also the email distribution was flawed. My wife was getting emails that I was not and vice versa. I attended the highest signed up Sunday workshop. Only a dozen or so made it to the workshop which was without doing the math around 15% of those who had paid for it. It was nice to have a virtually private workshop with 3 experts, but I am certain most people who paid wanted to attend. I suspect poor communication was a reason that such a low percentage of people who paid $300 atrended (in San Diego I attended the STR workshop and room was full - this syndication workshop we sat around one table).
I have heard Codie present and she is as good as you indicate but not an RE person. one of her lines is something like there are a lot of millionaire RE investors but not a lot of billionaire RE investors and I want to be a billionaire. Lauren predictions per her data make her worth listening to but 1) again not a RE expert 2) was significantly more entertaining and funny when she presented at pervious BPCon (I think it was BPCon2022 in San Diego). I really have enjoyed @david Greene keynotes in the past (his market is similar to mine so we have similar mindset) but I suspect that may not happen again (he was at the BPCon). I would like at least a majority of the keynote presenters to be RE related presenters.
I got more from the scheduled targeted guided networking events than I expected, but these are usually additional subject presentations. Not sure of my preference Just different.
No one can predict storms, but if you schedule in hurricane season you have better chance of hurricane than if you schedule outside hurricane season. Also while BP pivoted well, the restaurants could not. The restaurant I initially went to was accepting no walk ups. Of course when an event was planned with food, why would I make a reservation? When they cancelled the BP social event, combined with the resort closing early (9pm) to get employees home safely (both understandable) it created restaurant impacts.
I had two different somewhat severe room issues. One they fixed (AC not working), the other they got to a barely acceptable state (hot water and pressure).
My favorite part related to the conference was on shuttle to the airport. @Scott Trench introduced himself to my wife as Scott a BP employee (was he trying to be modest or be incognito). She did not recognize him. In fairness to her, he was not looking like CEO material. I was back a few rows in the shuttle and she asked me if I knew Scott who worked at BP. I said he more than works at BP (I did not say he was CEO). That is when 2 others recognized him; he may have gone incognito if wife had not asked if I knew Scott who worked at BP. He thanked me for my bp contributions as he exited the shuttle. all my interactions with Scott have been positive (forums and in person).
Final item is as is traditional they announced location of next BPCon after final keynote. BPCon2025 is in Las Vegas (@jay Hinrichs). Jay has advocated for Vegas. It certainly is a destination.
It may seem like this post has a lot of complaint but this was my favorite BPCon. I really liked the smaller size. I liked the targeted networking sessions. I fear Las Vegas will be similar to the size or BP2023 in Orlando. Wife has already indicated that she may not attend.
I really recommend everyone working RE or wanting to work RE should attend at least one BPCon. They are motivational, informative, crazy networking opportunity, and fun.
I plan to be at BPCon2025. It is 5 or 6 hour drive from my house. Hope to see some of you there.
Thanks for your feedback, Dan, and we're glad we'll see you again in Vegas at BPCON2025!
We were thankful to be able to pivot quickly and move the opening and closing events indoors (and even have to extend the closing event because of a jam-packed dance floor and people asking for an encore!), and while canceling the networking continental breakfast on Tuesday morning was a difficult decision, we felt it was the right thing to do considering the storm and wanting the resort staff to be safe. Luckily, Cancun missed any major weather event and a little rain didn't stop us from having a great time, including not having to cancel any of the 3 conference evening events! I hope you were able to soak up some sunshine before the clouds rolled in!
While we couldn't use Cvent this year because of housing management needs with booking rooms, I can promise you there will be a networking-focused app next year!
For those who are curious, we're booked out through 2027 (all in early October), and all BPCONs will be in the US.
>hope you were able to soak up some sunshine before the clouds rolled in!
Wife and I did a week in the Yucatán prior to the event. I made my Sunday 10AM workshop (syndications) but I had initially assumed it was later on Sunday. We were on cozemal (island off the coast) when I looked at Sunday’s schedule already too late on Saturday to return the rental car. I thought no way would I get there on time because rental car place opened at 8 AN sunday.
Wife dropped me off at ferry with luggage. She went to return car (which opened late which is slightly usual in Mexico) while I looked at ferry times. We barely caught the 8:30 ferry that arrived to mainland shortly after 9. Debark, get luggage, find taxi. Fortunately I had Mario Andretti for the taxi driver. The gate person at resort could not find my name on the list, but taxi driver who I will call Mario, convinced him to let us through. However, Mario dropped us of at main checkin which was not correct for BPCon. We needed to take a shuttle to BPCon (signage on road in would have been nice). Wait for shuttle to check in at BPCon location. Quick shuttle ride. Quickly got badge and remarkably arrived only 10 minutes late to an almost empty room. Maybe 5 attendees there with maybe another half dozen arriving after me. I was told over 65 people had signed up with about a dozen attending.
Some of this was my own disorganization while traveling. Some of this was not clear signage, etc. if virtually all attendees miss a paid for workshop, there are reasons.
As for our travels, we saw 4 mayan sites including Chichen Itza and toba, swam in 3 cenotes, went to swim with turtles but too rough seas for the wife (storm impacts), scuba a Great Wall (advanced dive - 95’ with strong current), many tours of various cities including horse drawn and walking.
We both (wife and I) had a great time before and during the conference.
As indicated this was my favorite of the 3 BPCons that I have attended but the most unorganized and I question why schedule in hurricane season? I have been to that area twice in Oct. both times hurricanes. I recognize BPCons are traditionally in Oct, but hurricane season is over by Nov. even late Oct would have reduced the chance of a hurricane. Fortunately it was not a hit, but off the coast, but it could have been a direct hit. It is important to know the seasons where you book BPCons.
Still I enjoyed this BPCon immensely.
I will see some of you in Las Vegas in October.
@Chris Seveney
Hey Chris. I currently have around 40k in reserves for my rentals and 125k for personal.
They are cash flowing about 1300 a month and I have around 25-35% of equity in each property.
Rent minus PITI does not equate to cash flow. You have maintenance/cap ex, pm, vacancy, misc. the reality is you have negative cash flow when properly estimating the expenses on the 3 rentals (no way 3 rentals have $1300/month maintenance/cap ex, pm, vacancy, and misc total (basically $433 per property). You are one large cap ex from cons =
You hate mortgages, I love mortgages
- magnifies returns, especially returns from appreciation
- allows me to purchase more properties
my debt to income is crazy bad. Using 2023 income I suspect my debt is over $100 for each dollar of income. However I am well diversified with solid assets. I sleep well.
Best wishes
I would not consider option 1 an investment property. In 3 years it would still have large negative cash flow.
Option 2 is missing too many details even for a cursory evaluation. In particular, purchase price and expected rent.
I have made a lot of money on rehabs doing BRRRRs. With little modesty, I am pretty good at it. Here are some of my thoughts: 1) they are work and have risk 2) in this hyper competitive RE market, there is not enough profit in the rehabs of most MLS listed properties. It is why it has been many years since my last MLS purchase. 3) specific to BRRRRs in my market (and most other markets), after I do a high LTV cash out the properties are very cash negative.
I am reluctant to recommend anyone wait to enter the RE market because no one knows the future. What I can say is your property 2 does not appear to be an investment property (it should be purchased for owner occupant) and that you should be able to do better.
Do you have an RE agent that is an RE investor? If not, I suggest you start there.
Good luck
Was it a licensed contractor? If it was I do not see how he wins. He should be paying into workman's comp and be the experts in evaluating the level of risk.
Do you have an umbrella policy in addition to the property’s policy?
Good luck
My view is you need a lot more successes and a lot more experience with underwriting before investing anyone else’s money, especially your mom’s retirement money
Here are some thoughts
- $320k ARV * 0.7 = 224k. 170k + 80k = 250k. Does not work as ideal brrrr even if numbers play out for traditional ideal BRRRR as there is no way to extract all cash invested. In addition refi appraisals are traditionally conservative so refi ARV ~$290k. Inexperienced rehabber may be challenged to hit $80k. No idea at rent point but if actually get appraisal of $320k with high LTV extract, will require rent in excess of $3200 to not be negative.
- flip: $170k + $80k + $25k selling costs + ~$2k/month * 8 months (holding cost, 5 month rehab, 3month sell and close) = $16k. Total $291k. Profit $29k before taxes and my numbers are not as conservative as I would use in my own underwriting. Anything goes wrong and that $29k depletes fast because itistoo smal, for this side effort
- my rule on value adds is they must add value 2x minimum because they have risk and require work. This comes close but does not meet my rule. $80k rehab adds $150k. Admittedly close, but that is my minimum criteria. My last rehab went way over budget. I was very glad to have conservative underwriting.
- for OO who would live in the property? OP would likely be ~$1500/month negative on current property as a rental when including maintenance/cap ex, vacancy, PM, misc. FHA would not work because there is no refi into an FHA.
I think for your experience, it would be a mistake to use your mom’s money. It could work, but a long ways from the virtual certainty you should desire if investing your mom’s money.
Good luck
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Good luck!
So there should be a difference if the house was damaged by flooding versus winds/tornado. Was your house flooded? Or did the windws blow stuff off the house or blow stuff into the house that represents the damage?
You might be covered if its the second one.
But I would be very scared if I owned stuff in florida right now. At some point, and I think we've actually hit that point after the second hurricane in a month or whatever its been, is that people are going to be tired of dealing with these massive storms and the ever increasing rise in insurance rates. And at some point, I almost wonder when all the insurance companies are going to pull up stakes there entirely and really make that state unlivable.
These storms of a century now appear to be happening every couple of years. And the fear is that this may be the new norm there. Even inland away from the coast - there's the risk of wind and/or flooding from crazy rain - I could see people rethinking their decision to move to florida.
The question is where do those people go now? I would have said north carolina before but look at how that storm walloped a couple of towns there. Texas? Georgia? Tennessee?
its got to be a place with no income taxes and low property taxes for older people on fixed incomes - yet warm weather. It'll be interesting to see what happens to florida if a mass migration truly happens.
I just don't know anyone in their right mind that would want to move to any city on the coast in florida any more.
>These storms of a century now appear to be happening every couple of years. And the fear is that this may be the new norm there.
We had a duplex on the sand at Gulf Shores Alabama when it got hit consecutive years by hurricane (I think it was 2005 & 2006). Each time about half the units on the sand got red tagged and had to be built off the sand at the inland part of the lots. So in 2 years about ~25% were left on the sand. Fortunately ours was not red tagged but both times had heavy damage (but less than most properties). It was a hassle (we had full insurance, but the rates increased significantly but we had large payouts twice), so we sold it.
It then went many years before that area got hit again.
I fear the rate and severity is increasing, but you never know if this is a new normal or freak event until Later.
Hurricanes, tornados, fires, droughts, severe heat. All areas are impacted. I would not be adverse to low interest loans to help those that do not have insurance or are under insured. And if something similar happens to my properties, I would hope for the same.
these events will happen to many of us eventually. Compassion should be shown.
Best wishes
- Some of those owners could have ownec in that area before global warming was even a thought
- virtually every area is being affected by climate change or has risks related to Mother Nature.
- because the USA has contributed more to global warming than any country and has prospered from it.
- some otherwise smart people do not believe humans are contributing to global warming. For the most part I think they listen to trusted non experts that feed them incorrect information. So if they have listened to the wrong people, they could be unaware of the rising risks.
- because historically help is provided for natural disaster events, Katrina, hurricane taking our Puerto Rico, pretty much every hurricane, Maui fire, various CA fires, tornados, earthquakes. Because of this is an investor stupid if they are expecting help for their region when a natural disaster hits. my city recently had flooding in non flood zones. The risk seemed zero, but it still happened (city poor maintenance played a role).
- because people should be compassionate. Reality is many bad events/outcomes was done with risk and/or stupidity including poor research. Consequences of Mother Nature even living in a low elevation state that is in hurricane paths is not an outlandish risk. Few areas have zero risks. My area has 2 big Mother Nature related risks, fire and earthquakes. I do not have earthquake insurance because it is too costly. I suspect if I am impacted, thousands will be and help will be forthcoming.
I hope the people impacted by these events get some assistance. Not a full bailout, but low interest long term loan could go a long ways in recovering. In the short term, they need immediate help such at food, water, and lodging.
Your entitle to your opinion, but I believe most people are compassionate to those impacted by Mother Nature related events whether in is hurricanes, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, fires, etc.
So there should be a difference if the house was damaged by flooding versus winds/tornado. Was your house flooded? Or did the windws blow stuff off the house or blow stuff into the house that represents the damage?
You might be covered if its the second one.
But I would be very scared if I owned stuff in florida right now. At some point, and I think we've actually hit that point after the second hurricane in a month or whatever its been, is that people are going to be tired of dealing with these massive storms and the ever increasing rise in insurance rates. And at some point, I almost wonder when all the insurance companies are going to pull up stakes there entirely and really make that state unlivable.
These storms of a century now appear to be happening every couple of years. And the fear is that this may be the new norm there. Even inland away from the coast - there's the risk of wind and/or flooding from crazy rain - I could see people rethinking their decision to move to florida.
The question is where do those people go now? I would have said north carolina before but look at how that storm walloped a couple of towns there. Texas? Georgia? Tennessee?
its got to be a place with no income taxes and low property taxes for older people on fixed incomes - yet warm weather. It'll be interesting to see what happens to florida if a mass migration truly happens.
I just don't know anyone in their right mind that would want to move to any city on the coast in florida any more.
>These storms of a century now appear to be happening every couple of years. And the fear is that this may be the new norm there.
We had a duplex on the sand at Gulf Shores Alabama when it got hit consecutive years by hurricane (I think it was 2005 & 2006). Each time about half the units on the sand got red tagged and had to be built off the sand at the inland part of the lots. So in 2 years about ~25% were left on the sand. Fortunately ours was not red tagged but both times had heavy damage (but less than most properties). It was a hassle (we had full insurance, but the rates increased significantly but we had large payouts twice), so we sold it.
It then went many years before that area got hit again.
I fear the rate and severity is increasing, but you never know if this is a new normal or freak event until Later.
Hurricanes, tornados, fires, droughts, severe heat. All areas are impacted. I would not be adverse to low interest loans to help those that do not have insurance or are under insured. And if something similar happens to my properties, I would hope for the same.
these events will happen to many of us eventually. Compassion should be shown.
Best wishes
I am not replying at all with regard to any local jurisdiction’s rules/regulations.
As for statewide 1482, the rent control and other provisions do not apply in the conditions you have specified. In particular, they do not apply to a duplex that is owner occupied and the owner’s occupancy proceeds the tenant’s occupancy.
Good luck
When you pay cash for a $400,000 home and rent it out, your rate of return will likely be less than 6%.
You could invest in stocks and earn 7% or better.
You could put the money in a high-interest savings account and earn up to 5%.
I don't understand why anyone would pay cash for real estate, erasing many benefits that increase the rate of return, while exposing themselves to the risk of loss (turnover costs, bad tenants, capex, etc.).
I question what percentage of those who invest in RE unleveraged actually understand the numbers and how extensive their underwriting effort. I also question if they have a good understanding of the effort and risk of residential RE investing.
There was a BP member who was quite active for a short duration that presented hi use case for RE not being a good investment compared to other investments especially ially stocks. His use case was a couple of unleveraged properties in southern CA one being in San Diego and the other in Riverside county. If there is any market that you want to magnify the appreciation return it is San Diego area. In addition, I presented his was not the usual use case because he was unleveraged. I included stats on percent unleveraged purchases and that many of those fairly low percent cash purchases in fact use unseen leverage HML, private lending, etc and some are short term cash holds such as a flip or a brrrr that gets financed not long after purchase. It appears he had done poor underwriting. The purchases were never optimal investment purchases even if leveraged. He had performed virtually no underwriting. But because he did poor in RE investing (with virtually every mistake possible), RE investing is not worth it.
Those who want to maximize ROI use leverage. Those that have other goals (such a reduced risk) or do not understand the numbers do not.
I actively put forth effort to maintain leverage. Paying a f/f conventional loan early is boggling to me.
Best wishes