Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Eric Williams

Eric Williams has started 22 posts and replied 147 times.

Post: Cost Segregation Study for STR

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41
Quote from @Brad Gibson:

Howdy everyone. I'm considering the purchase of a small home in Western Washington as a STR. One of the intriguing things about adding this home to our portfolio would be the potential tax benefits of doing a cost segregation study and receiving the 80% bonus depreciation this tax year. What I'm not clear on is approximately how much an average cost segregation study will show as available for that immediate depreciation.

Here are the numbers:

Sale Price $300,000 

Value of the land per the county assessor: $9.000.

Value of the structure including fixtures and contents: $291,000

Current tax bracket: 32%

The wifey and I both have high paying W-2 jobs and it would be nice to count that depreciation against her or my salary.  I know the rules for ensuring that the "loss" counts against W-2 income in a short term rental.

Is the standard estimate about 25% of the structure and contents what would be yielded as an immediate depreciation based upon a cost segregation study.  I'm also aware that in 2023, only 80% can be bonus depreciated.

Thanks in advance for the insight.


 Heads up it might be nice to get a lot of depreciation up front but that little allocated to land is also going to reduce your capital gain later.

Let's say we take 25% of the 300.

We get about 75k in bonus.

But if you both have high paying jobs, the activity is passive, and will likely be phased out at AGI greater than 150.

So unless you have 75k in passive income to offset it, perhaps reconsider.

This is oversimplified of course.

At a 32% marginal rate the NPV of the deductions carried forward are going to drop significantly.

Post: Oversimplified Cost Seg Example

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41
Quote from @Eric Williams:

Let's say a rental property gets 12k in rental income, passive.

Cost seg gets 50k, resulting in passive activity loss of around 38k.

The amount of passive losses carries from the Sch E to the 8582 to determine the loss allowed.

In this case I assume no other passive activities and no active participation exception.

In this case the amount paid for the cost seg is worthless and may be for several years, especially considering rent may stay stable while other expenses have not been accounted for which add to the depreciation carryforward and add to the chance of limitation (in this very over simplified example).

No losses are allowed on Schedule E, which flows to Schedule 1, to the front page of the 1040.

Again, just a simple demonstration of the flow of the return.

I just found this spreadsheet to illustrate that as the carryforward progresses, it loses value as the deduction benefits are delayed.


 It's hard to see but it should be mentioned that in tax NPV plays a big role in tax planning.

The amounts suspended become worth less by the year making the cost benefit a dynamic relationship that may worsen over time. The cost seg may actually become more expensive over time.

Post: Oversimplified Cost Seg Example

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41

Let's say a rental property gets 12k in rental income, passive.

Cost seg gets 50k, resulting in passive activity loss of around 38k.

The amount of passive losses carries from the Sch E to the 8582 to determine the loss allowed.

In this case I assume no other passive activities and no active participation exception.

In this case the amount paid for the cost seg is worthless and may be for several years, especially considering rent may stay stable while other expenses have not been accounted for which add to the depreciation carryforward and add to the chance of limitation (in this very over simplified example).

No losses are allowed on Schedule E, which flows to Schedule 1, to the front page of the 1040.

Again, just a simple demonstration of the flow of the return.

Post: Cost segregation and how to keep rental losses in future years

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41
Quote from @Mikey Liu:

Hi all - 

I understand the benefits of cost segregation in year 1 and how you can front load the depreciation of the unit. However, in future years, isn't the depreciation much less? If so, then how can one still maintain rental losses on a unit? Any thoughts or insights into this would be much appreciated. Maybe the strategy is to buy another new rental every year and do a cost segregation study on that one so that net net you have rental losses across the portfolio? But what if you only have this one rental property and don't intend to add? Are you essentially going to be showing net rental income in future years? 


 You can front load but it's worth distinguishing the year depreciation is allowed and the year the taxpayer benefits from the deduction may not coincide.

Amounts suspended could mean cost segs paid for don't actually accelerate some or all of the bonus depreciation.

Depreciation would be less if the depreciation is allowed and deducted earlier, meaning a higher chance for income to creep into higher tax brackets as the depreciation was already taken.

Post: What is Real Property for Tax Purposes?

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41

It makes sense to define real property for tax purposes when discussing real estate tax.

Under 1.856-10, real property is actually defined as land and improvements to land. Local law is not controlling. Although this is for Subchapter M, this is relatively consistent with the regs of 48, which states that real property is property consisting of land and improvements to land, such as 1) buildings, 2) inherently permanent structures, and 3) structural components.

A “building” generally is any structure or edifice enclosing a space within its walls, usually covered by a roof to provide shelter or housing, parking, offices, displays, or sales space. This is relatively consistent from 856 and 1031 and 48. 

Inherently permanent structures are any distinct assets and permanently affixed to real property and expected to remain indefinitely based on facts and circumstances, such as telephone poles and railroad tracks. 1031 and 1.856-10. 

Structural components are constituent parts of inherently permanent structures. Determination is based on various factors such as whether it is designed to move, damage from removal, and timing of installation. Examples include wiring, HVAC, sprinkler and alarm systems, and escalators. 48, 1031, and 263.

Structural components are specifically enumerated as eight building systems, which together with the building, comprise a single unit of property. However, capitalization rules apply to each component and the building separately.

The eight building systems are:

HVAC

Plumbing systems

Electrical systems

Escalators

Elevators

Fire-protection and alarm systems

Gas systems, and

Other structural components as designated

These distinctions come into play when determining capitalization requirements for betterments, adaptations, and restorations.

This is just intended to be a very general summary of real property. Naturally classification can change with taxpayer use.

Post: My first Rental Property

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41
Quote from @Victoria Fabianski:

Investment Info:

Small multi-family (2-4 units) buy & hold investment.

Purchase price: $320,000
Cash invested: $320,000

I was drawn to the idea of investing in a duplex for several compelling reasons: Income Potential: Duplexes offer a unique opportunity to generate dual income streams from a single property. The ability to have two separate rental units means a more steady and substantial cash flow, providing financial stability and security.
Diversification: Investing in a duplex allows for diversification within the real estate market.

If you give me some more information I can try to help you build a proforma.

If you e-mail me I can pass along some spreadsheets I have that might help.
Quote from @Pablo Aizpiri:

Hello,


I'm in Texas and am I wanting to discuss the possibility of kick starting my real estate investment journey with STR and also using that offset a fairly large W2 tax liability I have this year.

I basically need to know me if I'm missing something. In case anyone has any additional thoughts, here's what I'm considering:

- Using Section 179 of the tax code to reduce tax liability by using special depreciation after performing a cost aggregation study on a rental property. (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946)
- Have a cost segregation study that has a high percentage of the cost basis as depreciable on a shorter scale so that I can use bonus depreciation to depreciate a large amount (e.g. 60-70% of purchase value)
- Run the property as a short term rental (averaging less than 7 days rented) and meet the tax code requirements for making that income active by participating "in the activity for more than 100 hours during the tax year, and you participated at least as much as any other individual (including individuals who didn’t own any interest in the activity) for the year." (https://www.irs.gov/publications/p925#en_US_2022_publink1000104579)
- With the classification as active income, deduct the depreciation from my taxes reducing my tax liability considerably. 

I think the biggest "catch" will be:
- Having a cost segregation study that allows deducting a large enough amount that makes all this worthwhile. Traditionally they yield 10-40% of cost basis but I'd need this to be ~80%- but I'm talking with some acquaintances who have achieved those numbers buying used duplexes the last few years.
- Meeting the active participation threshold and keeping good records I want everything to be by the book and I like to keep good records so this should be doable.

I'm a bit late to the party, as bonus depreciation is being phased out. Even this year it's only 80% as opposed to 100%. But I have some acquaintances that have been using this strategy to acquire a new property each year and effectively reduce their tax liability to zero, so I'd like to explore it.


 You can reach out if you would like.

Keep in mind that 179 has both property limitations and income limitations.

Also bonus is class by class while 179 is asset by asset.

Bonus is percentage while 179 is a dollar amount.

179 also has an active conduct of trade or business which means no 212.

Also 179 is not included in the basis calculation for mid quarter calculation.

179 is not depreciation.

Quote from @Basit Siddiqi:

New York / New York City has one of the most complex tax laws in the nation.
Given that you are a resident of New York, you may want to work with a professional who understands the state tax laws well.

Investing in Ohio can be a little tricky for tax purposes.
Ohio has a lot of 'locality tax returns'
I.E. if you invest in Cleveland, Maple Heights, Columbus, etc, they have locality returns.
Therefore, you would be responsible for filing a return with Federal, New York, Ohio, Locality.

best of luck!


 Agreed. Ohio has CAT, school district, income, pass-through elections, state adjustments for 179, etc. That's just from what I remember.

Also you may have allocation calculations but I may be misremembering.

Definitely want someone from Ohio in my opinion.

Post: Recommendations for CPA in Ohio pls

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41

William Vaughan is solid.

Post: Looking for investor friendly CPA, accountant

Eric WilliamsPosted
  • Accountant
  • Houston, TX
  • Posts 147
  • Votes 41
Quote from @Apoorva Agrawal:

Hi All,

I am looking for recommendations for a CPA, accountant who have experience with real estate investors and help us with all the tax related to LLC and personal finances.

We live in Seattle, Washington and investing in Florida and Ohio with LLC In Wyoming.

Any referrals and recommendations are greatly appreciated.


Thank you 
Apoorva Agrawal 


 Ohio is intense so make sure you get someone with solid understanding of their various regimes.

Some people say Ohio is worse than California.